Catholic Info
Traditional Catholic Faith => SSPX Resistance News => Topic started by: SeanJohnson on October 27, 2019, 12:12:16 PM
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So, in addition to the priest managing somehow to speak on the kingship of Christ, and even noting the religious indifference of American society, while carefully managing to avoid any reference to Vatican II, the religious indifference currently on display in the Vatican Dignitatis Humanae, or the Vatican’s direct complicity through the efforts of the former Cardinal Secretary of State Cassaroli (who toured the world to destroy the constitutions and concordats of the last remaining confessional states, and bring them into conformity with Vatican II) to make the kingship of Christ impossible -an amazing omission now 7 years running- we were treated to a new novelty at the sung Mass today:
While the priest was distributing Communion, additional altar servers entered the sanctuary, and began preparing the altar for the procession which would normally have taken place after Mass.
So, after the chalice is purified, the priest places the Blessed Sacrament in the monstrance, and proceeds with the communion/post-Communion prayers, at which point the whole chapel rises, like at any other sung Mass.
The result is that the whole chapel is standing while the Blessed Sacrament is exposed and ignored on the altar.
After the priest said the Benedicamus Domino, he does NOT proceed to the last gospel, but instead, bests himself in cope and begins the divine praises!
Whether this irreverent treatment of ignoring the Blessed Sacrament (and standing while our Lord is exposed on the altar) was a tactic to enforce participation in the procession by beginning the exposition and praises before the last gospel is said, or whether it was an irreverent time-saving tactic, I have never seen this done in 20 years of attending the TLM in any venue (though I do recall from my time at the ICK that they had proposed precisely processing out of the church while the last gospel was sung).
What novelty will it be next week??
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For the Feast of Christ the King we had a sung Mass today. I was totally confused as i have been to hundreds Low Masses but only a handful of sung Masses. I did not know when to sit or stand or kneel. And the priest set up a monstrance before Mass ended and I do not think he said the Last Gospel. But since I know nothing I do not know if everything was done well or if there were errors or abuses. The music was beautiful. We now have an electric piano that sounds like an organ and there was singing.
The last time we had a sung Mass at our mission was when Father Joseph Pfeiffer was still in the SSPX. I still remember him. He said Mass for us two times and both times it was a sung Mass. Does anyone know if he has a habit of not saying Low Mass like every other priest who ever said Mass at our little Mission?
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For the Feast of Christ the King we had a sung Mass today. I was totally confused as i have been to hundreds Low Masses but only a handful of sung Masses. I did not know when to sit or stand or kneel. And the priest set up a monstrance before Mass ended and I do not think he said the Last Gospel.
Sounds like the same thing that happened at my chapel.
This tells me this novelty is coordinated by the District.
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I don't know, guys...
I seem to remember this being quite normal at the Seminary back at the turn of the Millennium. The priest set up the monstrance with the Blessed Sacrament towards the end (usually of a High Mass, on a big feast, especially those associated with a procession afterwards).
There is even a rubric associated with this. It is called "coram Sacratissimi" or "before [the face of] the Most Holy". Certain things are done differently coram Sacratissimi.
I wasn't in the MC department, but it's one of the million things I learned at the Seminary.
If Benediction follows Mass, for example the priest will not bless the congregation, since he is about to do so with the Body of Christ Himself in 15 minutes. He says "Benedicamus Domino" instead of "Ite Missa Est".
And now we're complaining about Sung Mass rubrics? Complaining about the Dialogue Mass is one thing, but now you are so hooked on your Low Mass that you suspect foul play just because they're having a High Mass, with all the rubrical differences that are inherent to that kind of Mass? What's next? Are you going to complain that they sung the Kyrie, Gloria, Sanctus, and Agnus Dei at your "High Mass"? :)
I'll give you another tidbit. Back in the day, a so-called "High Mass" was the DEFAULT for Mass. Low Masses were introduced later. I can't give you any references because I'm not a Liturgy expert and I learned it long ago; it's just something I learned in Liturgy class in the [traditional] Seminary.
Moral of the story: Just because you're not used to it (say, you've been at a mission chapel for years and usually attend Low Mass) doesn't mean it's a novelty.
I experienced countless WONDERFUL novelties (to me) when I entered the Seminary under +Williamson back in 2000. Gregorian Chant, the Divine Office, solemn High Masses, sung Requiem Mass, Chrism Mass, countless "new" melodies for the Kyrie/Gloria/Sanctus/Agnus Dei/Credo, and hundreds of other items of Catholic liturgy that I hadn't experienced before.
NOTE: I'm not aiming this at Sean Johnson. I'm aiming it mostly at Matto, and "whoever else".
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Sean and Matteo said the same thing. Why are you aiming at Matteo? Is Sean above critique on this site?
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I don't know, guys...
And now we're complaining about Sung Mass rubrics? Complaining about the Dialogue Mass is one thing, but now you are so hooked on your Low Mass that you suspect foul play just because they're having a High Mass, with all the rubrical differences that are inherent to that kind of Mass?
NOTE: I'm not aiming this at Sean Johnson. I'm aiming it mostly at Matto, and "whoever else".
Actually, Matthew, you really misread me, so I may have mis-worded my post. I was not complaining at all. I thought the Mass was beautiful, though I did not understand everything and was not used to all the rubrics, and was confused by the lack of the Last Gospel and the "Ite Missa Est". I was just telling Sean that at my chapel something similar happened to what he witnessed, which I thought he was complaining about, so that it is possible it was a trend ordered from above.
P.S. Matthew, looking at my post again, I think you read criticism into my post that I did not mean to express, perhaps because we do a lot of complaining here.
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This method is described in the traditional American and English rubrical authors Fortescue and O'Connell. It's also exactly what is supposed to happen at Corpus Christ and the Forty Hours devotion (which rubrics were established in the 1700s).
Since there's no rubric that says this is how Christ the King must be done, some priests finish the Mass first, and then expose the Blessed Sacrament, but this is the novelty. If one just follows the rubrics as they are written for other Eucharistic Processions, then what is described is what one should do. It is not "weirdness".
In short, no offense to Sean, but this just silly. I get that there are legitimate beefs with the Society, but instead of just calling everything about which one is not familiar some new example of Modernism, maybe it's best to do some research and ask some questions rather than assume it's some coordinated effort to destroy the Liturgy.
I've trained the servers at the chapel for years straight out of the books, and also have never once received any directive from the priests or from the district or Menzingen. Not once. Maybe it has happened, but I've never seen it or heard of it.
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When I was in the monastery, every Sunday was a high mass with different Glorias, etc., and they were awesome. Even during the week, we had a lot of high masses, unless it was a ferial day. We had a brief choir practice almost every day and learned much.
However, the laity did not have the time nor the training to have high masses. It was also easier on the priest who often had to travel to another outlying parish to celebrate a second or third mass for that day.
In the large parishes I attended before Vatican II, we had a 6:00 AM Mass, followed by two more at 7:00 AM and at 8:00 AM. Then there was the high mass usually celebrated at 9:00 AM, where the choir would practice in the parish hall starting at 8 AM, and sometimes we would have another practice following that high mass especially if a special feast day was to occur that week or the next Sunday. That high mass was usually followed by another low mass at 11:00 AM. The parking lot was always full with people coming or going all morning long. There were two or three priests in that parish.
In addition to the choir practice before and after the mass, those choirs were lucky to have a choir practice every Tuesday for one to two hours, and the choir director had to beg for rehearsals. In order to encourage attendance, sometimes we had a choir practice in a home complete with a dinner and/or desserts, especially around the holidays. Those were usually potluck dinners, and sometimes entire families attended. In those cases, sometimes the parish hall was used. Interestingly, choir rehearsals and the friendships that developed usually resulted in marriages where we were asked to sing at their nuptial mass.
Hint. Hint. If you are looking for a spouse, join the choir.
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Matthew-
If there is a rubric, there is a rubric. But we have had sung Masses at my chapel every Sunday for the 20 years I have attended it, and never has the priest interrupted Mass to begin adoration.
And please don’t get me going on congregational singing and dialogue Masses (modernism)!
VLM-
My posting of the event was my attempt to do research.
Not sure what chapel you go to, but at my chapel, we received explicit instructions (cards printed by the priest, and placed in the pews) of all the changes that would overturn a 40 year custom to the contrary:
Standing during the Sanctus, Agnes Dei, and when the priest ascends the altar, and when he is incensed. You can’t “actively participate “ from your knees, you see:
They want you singing!
So now every sung Mass is pretty much a dialogue Mass.
Also: The altar boys now recite the Domine non sum dignus with the priest (French modernism).
So when an abrupt novelty pops up like this in the chapel, contrary to 40 years previous custom, and another member reports the exact same thing (although they apparently like it!), I think you will cut me some slack.
My question to you is: Why so upset that I am upset with the novelty??
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The 1962 Missale Romanum, to the best of my knowledge, stipulated that when a procession is to take place after Mass the Last Gospel is omitted. This is also done on other days with special ceremonies even if they don't take place after Mass, such as Palm Sunday and I think Maundy Thursday (I know there is a procession after Mass on Maundy Thursday). This was a change made post-1955.
As far as setting the monstrance up during Mass, I'm not sure what the rubrics say about that, but that is what's done even at Saint Gertrude's in Ohio. Their annual 40 Hours devotion was this Christ the King weekend, and at the opening Mass on Friday night they set up the monstrance at communion time, and they follow the pre-1955 rubrics.
So, even if what you guys saw was not normally how your chapel does things, neither of these things is out of the ordinary in general.
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The 1962 Missale Romanum, to the best of my knowledge, stipulated that when a procession is to take place after Mass the Last Gospel is omitted. This is also done on other days with special ceremonies even if they don't take place after Mass, such as Palm Sunday and I think Maundy Thursday (I know there is a procession after Mass on Maundy Thursday). This was a change made post-1955.
As far as setting the monstrance up during Mass, I'm not sure what the rubrics say about that, but that is what's done even at Saint Gertrude's in Ohio. Their annual 40 Hours devotion was this Christ the King weekend, and at the opening Mass on Friday night they set up the monstrance at communion time, and they follow the pre-1955 rubrics.
So, even if what you guys saw was not normally how your chapel does things, neither of these things is out of the ordinary in general.
Excellent and instructive post; thank you!!
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I don't know, guys...
I seem to remember this being quite normal at the Seminary back at the turn of the Millennium. The priest set up the monstrance with the Blessed Sacrament towards the end (usually of a High Mass, on a big feast, especially those associated with a procession afterwards).
There is even a rubric associated with this. It is called "coram Sacratissimi" or "before [the face of] the Most Holy". Certain things are done differently coram Sacratissimi.
I wasn't in the MC department, but it's one of the million things I learned at the Seminary.
If Benediction follows Mass, for example the priest will not bless the congregation, since he is about to do so with the Body of Christ Himself in 15 minutes. He says "Benedicamus Domino" instead of "Ite Missa Est".
And now we're complaining about Sung Mass rubrics? Complaining about the Dialogue Mass is one thing, but now you are so hooked on your Low Mass that you suspect foul play just because they're having a High Mass, with all the rubrical differences that are inherent to that kind of Mass? What's next? Are you going to complain that they sung the Kyrie, Gloria, Sanctus, and Agnus Dei at your "High Mass"? :)
I'll give you another tidbit. Back in the day, a so-called "High Mass" was the DEFAULT for Mass. Low Masses were introduced later. I can't give you any references because I'm not a Liturgy expert and I learned it long ago; it's just something I learned in Liturgy class in the [traditional] Seminary.
Moral of the story: Just because you're not used to it (say, you've been at a mission chapel for years and usually attend Low Mass) doesn't mean it's a novelty.
I experienced countless WONDERFUL novelties (to me) when I entered the Seminary under +Williamson back in 2000. Gregorian Chant, the Divine Office, solemn High Masses, sung Requiem Mass, Chrism Mass, countless "new" melodies for the Kyrie/Gloria/Sanctus/Agnus Dei/Credo, and hundreds of other items of Catholic liturgy that I hadn't experienced before.
NOTE: I'm not aiming this at Sean Johnson. I'm aiming it mostly at Matto, and "whoever else".
The Catholic tradition is vst and rich. One can never know everything.
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The Catholic tradition is vst and rich. One can never know everything.
Ted Bundy said, "One can never know everything, so jump in my car and let's go for a ride."
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Nothing like the holiness and simplicity of a low Mass minus the dialogue.
During the penal days in Ireland , England, USA, China etc those were the Masses.
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Ted Bundy said, "One can never know everything, so jump in my car and let's go for a ride."
The Holy Vifgin said, "Fiat mihi secundum verbum tuam." that is "Be it done to me according to your word."
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I don't know, guys...
I seem to remember this being quite normal at the Seminary back at the turn of the Millennium. The priest set up the monstrance with the Blessed Sacrament towards the end (usually of a High Mass, on a big feast, especially those associated with a procession afterwards).
There is even a rubric associated with this. It is called "coram Sacratissimi" or "before [the face of] the Most Holy". Certain things are done differently coram Sacratissimi.
Agreed. This practice is no novelty. Our independent Traditional priest (ordained in the 1950s) had the same practice for many years. Once a month the Mass flows this way into Benediction. It's not an interruption of the Mass but a graceful transition. Mass flowed into Benediction as Communion flowed into Adoration.
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NOTE: I'm not aiming this at Sean Johnson. I'm aiming it mostly at Matto, and "whoever else".
SeanJohnson started this thread, so I don't quite get this comment either.
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I think Matthew was just being polite.
In any case, someone else demonstrated earlier that, even if this practice of exposing our Lord in the monstrance while saying Mass is not the custom at my chapel, nevertheless, there is, apparently, a rubric in the 1962 missal (and earlier missals, per the St. Gertrude practice) permitting it, so I was wrong to have accused the practice of being a modernist innovation, and conceded the point.