Send CathInfo's owner Matthew a gift from his Amazon wish list:
https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

Author Topic: More Preparing the Terrain for +Huonder  (Read 3747 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Pax Vobis

  • Supporter
Re: More Preparing the Terrain for +Huonder
« Reply #5 on: June 20, 2023, 10:12:05 AM »

Quote
A bit of Trad 101 --

TL;DR (short version): Catholic morality does not permit us to be risk-takers when it comes to what Mass we will attend, or other important matters touching on our Faith and our salvation. On the contrary, we are commanded to be extremely risk-averse and conservative -- taking the safest path.
Yes, and in addition to catholic morality, canon law requires the same approach.  And Quo Primum 100% forbids attendance at any rites which don't come from the Traditional tree.



Quote
Now I'll admit that some Trads today are more "sure than they ought to be" when it comes to the validity of the New Rite of Ordination -- or the Novus Ordo Missae for that matter. But that is beside the point.
This means they aren't true Trads.

Re: More Preparing the Terrain for +Huonder
« Reply #6 on: June 20, 2023, 10:40:22 AM »
That is the state of the SSPX today. The girdling has been done 100%. The organization is fully doomed. Just a matter of time before all the chapels/policies/etc. fully reflect the fundamental shift that HAS TAKEN PLACE (past tense).
I can attest to the truth of this statement. The new "SSPX" chapel in Front Royal is unrecognizable as a Society chapel besides the priests being member of the SSPX.  It is the most chaotic hot mess I have encountered since leaving the Novus Ordo. Women without veils, immodesty in dress and BEHAVIOR, lack of decorum, nursing and changing babies in the pews, talking, cell phones, screaming bratty children that do not get taken out, congregation singing at inappropriate times...the list goes on.  It is truly a sad state of affairs and could be corrected and the people could be taught by the priests, but they are not, and that is what is so heartbreaking. I'm not sure why the situation has been allowed to continue but I can only deduce that it is because these young SSPX priests are being told to not say anything for fear of offending the newbies.  And, it is not rare that novus ordo "priests" are seen at the chapel, which no one blinks at but rather thinks is wonderful.  There is an older retired diocesan priest who was also at the ordinations and did the prayer over the new ordinands.

If the new SSPX has no problem with the Novus Ordo priests, and is now including them in their ceremonies, it sure does make their supplied jurisdiction look like a farce.  


Re: More Preparing the Terrain for +Huonder
« Reply #7 on: June 20, 2023, 11:09:26 AM »
If the new SSPX has no problem with the Novus Ordo priests, and is now including them in their ceremonies, it sure does make their supplied jurisdiction look like a farce. 

Venenum in cauda.

Of course, now that they have received sacramental jurisdiction and/or approval, they are not bothered by that incongruity (which presumably they believe does it apply).

Offline Ladislaus

  • Supporter
Re: More Preparing the Terrain for +Huonder
« Reply #8 on: June 20, 2023, 11:15:48 AM »
The FACT is that these things are at least DOUBTFUL, and there is a Catholic principle that one is not even ALLOWED to go with a doubtful path when a certain path exists. That goes for the liquid used at Baptism, your Mass, your priest, and everything else. We must always choose the more certain.

It's my understanding that one can't approach doubtful Sacraments even if a certain path does NOT exist ... except in danger of death, but someone can correct me if I'm wrong.  There's some debate, of course, about whether there's positive or negative doubt about various scenarios.

Offline Angelus

  • Supporter
Re: More Preparing the Terrain for +Huonder
« Reply #9 on: June 20, 2023, 01:26:38 PM »
It's my understanding that one can't approach doubtful Sacraments even if a certain path does NOT exist ... except in danger of death, but someone can correct me if I'm wrong.  
What you said agrees with Callan and McHugh's Moral Theology:

https://www.gutenberg.org/files/35354/35354-h/35354-h.html

678. We are obliged always to follow a safe course, that is, not to expose ourselves to the danger of formal sin (see 249, 258); but Tutiorism errs when it teaches that we are also obliged always to follow the safer or safest course, that is, never to expose ourselves even to the danger of material sin. There are cases, however, when we are obliged (because some law requires it) to follow a safer course, that is, not to expose ourselves or others to some great harm. Thus, we must follow the safer side in the following cases:
(a) when there is question concerning something essential for the salvation of ourselves or of others, for the law of charity forbids that any risk be taken in this supremely important matter. Example: Titus instructs the dying Caius only concerning the existence of God and of the future life. He should also instruct him about the Trinity and the Incarnation, which is the safer course, since it is more probable that an explicit faith in these two mysteries is a condition of salvation;
(b) when there is question of some great spiritual loss or gain for ourselves or others, for justice or charity forbids that we take chances in such affairs. Examples: Sempronia doubts whether she is excused from the law of abstinence, and whether she will be guilty of sin if she eats meat. Caius doubts whether attendance at a certain school will do harm to the religion of his son. Balba doubts whether she is bound to inquire about the truth of her sect. As long as their serious doubts remain, these persons should follow the safer course;
(c) when there is question of the validity or invalidity of a Sacrament, for the virtue of religion requires that the Sacraments be administered with fidelity, and be not exposed to the peril of nullity. Example: It is not lawful to consecrate matter that has probably been substantially adulterated;
(d) when there is question of some temporal good or evil to oneself or another, and one is certainly obliged to promote the former or prevent the latter. Examples: Caius suspects that a drink before him is deadly poison; Titus suspects that an object at which he is preparing to shoot is a human being. Neither may disregard his suspicion, even if its contrary is more probable, because the safer side must here be taken. The Fifth Commandment forbids one needlessly to imperil one’s own or another’s life.
679. In emergency one may expose a Sacrament to nullity by taking a course that is less safe for the Sacrament, but safer for the subject, relying on the axiom that the Sacraments are for men, and not men for the Sacraments. Example: Titus is called to baptize the dying Caius. No water can be procured except rose water, whose sufficiency is doubtful. Titus not only may, but should, use the doubtful matter, since no other can be had.