Author Topic: More info about Mr Bishop Ambrose Moran (Read 101083 times)

MaterDominici · « **Reply #285 on:** October 28, 2015, 10:48:57 PM »

For those thinking that Ambrose might be a valid Orthodox priest, this succession list for Bishop Michael Kirkland seems to suggest that Nicholas Ilnyckyj wasn't consecrated until 1978 -- four years after the date on Ambrose's ordination certificate.

http://www.ourchurch.com/member/u/uaoc-oca-sec/index.php?p=1_4_History

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In 1961, at the death of Metropolitan JOSEPH, Archbishop PETER was elected Moderator of the Standing Episcopal Conference. Metropolitan PETER II (Zhurawetzky) and Archbishop JOACHIM (Souris) consecrated Archbishop NIKOLAUS (Ilnyckyj) in 1978 for the Ukrainian Autocephalous Orthodox Church in the United States.

This site says the same:
http://www.apostle1.com/aoc-history1.htm

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In 1978, Archbishop +Peter (Zhurawetsky) assisted by Greek Archbishop +Joachim (Souris) and Greek Bishop +Lavrentios (Maniatakis) consecrated Metropolitan +Nicholas (Llnyckyj) for the Ukrainian Orthodox Church.

TheRealMcCoy · « **Reply #286 on:** October 29, 2015, 05:28:31 AM »

Mater, I suspect that those who are accepting Ambrose are doing so either at face value (no pun intended because it's not his real face, is it) or simply because he enjoys the endorsement of Fr Pfeiffer and Fr Hewko. This second factor is so inverted--since when do bishops derive their authority from priests?

Colombiere · « **Reply #287 on:** October 29, 2015, 12:47:18 PM »

It's odd that the certificate stationery is the same from 1974 to 1986 from Catholic to Orthodox from New York to Rome from priest ordination to Bishop consecration. Bishop Kirkland's Orthodox certificate in 1986 and Moran's ordination and his Cardinal Slipyj consecration certificate in 1976 are all printed from the same source. Note that the twelfth star down on the right hand border on all the docuмents have the same stamp imperfection.

Matthew · « **Reply #288 on:** October 29, 2015, 01:15:40 PM »

Quote from: TheRealMcCoy

Mater, I suspect that those who are accepting Ambrose are doing so either at face value (no pun intended because it's not his real face, is it) or simply because he enjoys the endorsement of Fr Pfeiffer and Fr Hewko. This second factor is so inverted--since when do bishops derive their authority from priests?

I think you hit the nail on the head here.

You have to understand the pathology (that's what it is) of this cult mentality.

Equally bizarre is a man who won't attend a Mass until Fr. Pfeiffer approves it. And if Fr. Pfeiffer doesn't give his approval, it doesn't matter HOW Catholic it is, how much the priest in question preaches against Vatican II and modernism, the man won't go to his Mass, purely because Fr. Pfeiffer didn't give his approval.

If someone can be that irrational and brainwashed like a typical cult member, then they can accept a con man like Ambrose as a bishop. It doesn't matter what Fr. Pfeiffer says. What he says is the truth. It doesn't matter what that pesky "reality" tries to interject. Just ignore him -- he's a "hater" and we're persecuted, because we're the true remnant, yadda yadda.

Clemens Maria · « **Reply #289 on:** October 29, 2015, 01:15:52 PM »

Quote from: MaterDominici

For those thinking that Ambrose might be a valid Orthodox priest, this succession list for Bishop Michael Kirkland seems to suggest that Nicholas Ilnyckyj wasn't consecrated until 1978 -- four years after the date on Ambrose's ordination certificate.

http://www.ourchurch.com/member/u/uaoc-oca-sec/index.php?p=1_4_History

Quote
In 1961, at the death of Metropolitan JOSEPH, Archbishop PETER was elected Moderator of the Standing Episcopal Conference. Metropolitan PETER II (Zhurawetzky) and Archbishop JOACHIM (Souris) consecrated Archbishop NIKOLAUS (Ilnyckyj) in 1978 for the Ukrainian Autocephalous Orthodox Church in the United States.

This site says the same:
http://www.apostle1.com/aoc-history1.htm

Quote
In 1978, Archbishop +Peter (Zhurawetsky) assisted by Greek Archbishop +Joachim (Souris) and Greek Bishop +Lavrentios (Maniatakis) consecrated Metropolitan +Nicholas (Llnyckyj) for the Ukrainian Orthodox Church.

It's almost entirely irrelevant whether or not he is a valid Orthodox priest. The important thing to remember is that he is NOT a Catholic priest. Even on the off-chance that he actually was ordained validly by a valid Orthodox bishop would you receive sacraments from him? He's not Catholic!

Nevertheless, since this guy has inserted himself into the traditional Catholic milieu, it would be interesting to find out if he is a valid Orthodox priest. Given that we have caught Moran in many lies already, why would we believe that his ordination was authentic based solely on information that he produces? I would need to hear something from Bishop Ilnyckyj (or his successors) before I would believe it. But then I know nothing about the Autocephalous Orthodox Church of America and Europe. Do they have valid orders? If they don't have valid orders, case closed. But if they do have valid orders, we would still have to contact them and ask them if they will confirm Moran's claims. You know, the claims he made to the GOCA in 2007 which he now denies and instead claims that he was ordained by +Slipyj. So now we are reduced to trying to verify a claim which Moran himself denies. OK.