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Author Topic: More info about Mr Bishop Ambrose Moran  (Read 101123 times)

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More info about Mr Bishop Ambrose Moran
« on: September 29, 2015, 03:55:58 AM »
UPDATE: There is a thread containing links to ALL the threads about so-called Bishop Ambrose Moran:

https://www.cathinfo.com/catholic.php/Everything-you-wanted-to-know-about-Mr-Ambrose-Moran-the-Orthodox


Someone who is knowledgeable about these matters said the following on the ByzCath forum:

Quote
If you can bring yourself to watch and listen to the first of the youtube videos linked above, your head will spin.

Ambrose claims to have been in high school during VII (opened in 62, closed in 65). Ordained priest in 1974 and ordained to the episcopate in 1976 (fastest elevation in history, perhaps) to enter the USSR and ordain bishops for the UGCC in Ukraine. But, strangely he gets sent to the US - where he serves in Ruthenian and Ukrainian parishes and he's ordered by HB Joseph to help out the Latins (because why?) and, meantime, he's helping Fenton and the ORCM. "I was advised to head one of these jurisdictions" - what jurisdictions?

The man has an imagination beyond belief.

I reviewed several volumes of the Official Catholic Directory from the 70s and 80s and find no listing for him among the clergy. Likewise, I don't recollect any references to him in the histories of any Ruthenian or UGCC parish in the US during the period that he describes. He began to show up in occasional internet references in the early 21st century - with UAOC-C, then GOC, now he's going for SSPX Resistence.

He seems to have managed to get his picture taken in Rome (if indeed those are of him) - hard to do? Nope, definitely not in the 70s or 80s. Around that time, Eastern bishops, up to and including Patriarchs, were notoriously easily led into acceptance of all manner of clergy offering claims of their presbyteral provenance and dressing the part - it's scary but it definitely happened, especially those who claimed to be jumping from some other, non-Catholic, jurisdiction (I suspect that the view was - thank goodness, we've saved another one).

The short of it - Ambrose is a bishop in his mind, and appears to have mastered his spiel very well, since he repeats it nearly perfectly from one time to the next (always a plus, lest someone realize the story's changed). He has an answer for everything, conveniently eludes some points - like his time with the GOC, has no names for 2 of his 3 episcopal consecrators.

The man is a classic vagante.

Many years,

Neil

http://www.byzcath.org/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/413177/Re:_Question_about_a_Vagante_B#Post413177
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Offline Ladislaus

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More info about Mr Bishop Ambrose Moran
« Reply #1 on: September 29, 2015, 02:13:48 PM »
So, in another video put up by Pablo, in Ambrose's sermon at the compound:

Ambrose claims that he was ordained to the priesthood by Cardinal Slipyj in 1974.

Then he claims that he was consecrated a bishop in 1976 by Cardinal Slipyj (with co-consecrators consisting of a bishop sent by the Melchite Patriarch Maximos V and a Ukrainian diocesan bishop).  He claims that he was consecrated so young in order to sneak behind the Iron Curtain and consecrate bishops for the clandestine underground Church.  Claims that he has no papal mandate because Slipyj had autonomy to consecrate whoever he wanted.

This should be pretty easy to verify; those records of the handful of bishops consecrated for this purpose have long since been released.

He then claims that Cardinal Slipyj personally asked him to perform confirmations in the Latin Rite at St. Jude Shrine in Houston, TX (because he grew up acquainted with both the Ukrainian and the Latin Rites).  This was allegedly because Cardinal Slipyj had a close working relationship with Archbishop Lefebvre.  St. Jude Shrine was apparently under then-Father George Musey.

He then claims that Cardinal Slipyj designated him his "successor" and that he now has the canonical status of "Patriarch."

Claims that John Paul II met with him and referred to him as "Josaphat the New".

I personally know the brother of the current Ukrainian Patriarch (a priest).  I will ask him to check into Ambrose.





More info about Mr Bishop Ambrose Moran
« Reply #2 on: September 29, 2015, 03:30:30 PM »
Quote from: Ladislaus
So, in another video put up by Pablo, in Ambrose's sermon at the compound:

Ambrose claims that he was ordained to the priesthood by Cardinal Slipyj in 1974.

Then he claims that he was consecrated a bishop in 1976 by Cardinal Slipyj (with co-consecrators consisting of a bishop sent by the Melchite Patriarch Maximos V and a Ukrainian diocesan bishop).  He claims that he was consecrated so young in order to sneak behind the Iron Curtain and consecrate bishops for the clandestine underground Church.  Claims that he has no papal mandate because Slipyj had autonomy to consecrate whoever he wanted.

This should be pretty easy to verify; those records of the handful of bishops consecrated for this purpose have long since been released.

He then claims that Cardinal Slipyj personally asked him to perform confirmations in the Latin Rite at St. Jude Shrine in Houston, TX (because he grew up acquainted with both the Ukrainian and the Latin Rites).  This was allegedly because Cardinal Slipyj had a close working relationship with Archbishop Lefebvre.  St. Jude Shrine was apparently under then-Father George Musey.

He then claims that Cardinal Slipyj designated him his "successor" and that he now has the canonical status of "Patriarch."

Claims that John Paul II met with him and referred to him as "Josaphat the New".

I personally know the brother of the current Ukrainian Patriarch (a priest).  I will ask him to check into Ambrose.



I can't speak to much of this history but I can speak to what is related here about St. Jude Shrine.  First of all it is not a designated shrine.  Its ownership is in the name of Guiffre Family.  Archbishop Lefebvre blessed it but beyond that and the Confirmations he gave in 1975 (if I remember correctly) there is no connection whatsoever with the Archbishop. There was a falling out with the Guiffres' which resulted in the exodus of the congregation, Fr. Hector Bolduc, and Father Carl Pulvermacher who within a year bought another property in Dickinson, Texas.  St. Jude's became a sedevacantist group and remains so to this day.  If this 'bishop' ever came there I can't say but it definitely would not have been on the recommendation of the Archbishop who had terminated any relationship with this place.  The actual span of time of the relationship between the SSPX and St. Jude's was only several months.

Father Musey had been a priest of the Houston-Galveston Diocese but having suffered some heart problems was not practicing as a priest but instead was managing a family restaurant in Dickinson during the 1970's.  Somehow he was enlisted by the Guiffre family to come to St. Jude's and subsequently was made a "bishop".  He would have had to be a sede also or the family would not have accepted him.  If this "bishop" Ambrose came to St. Jude's as he says he would have been a sede at that time.    

More info about Mr Bishop Ambrose Moran
« Reply #3 on: September 29, 2015, 03:52:50 PM »
Bishop Ambrose Moran is a member of an Orthodox Church!

I have searched on the Net, and came up with the following information from an Orthodox Church:

"In 2007, Archbishop Gregory received Archbishop Ambrose (Moran-Dolgorouky) of New York City, one of many episcopi vagantes who claim to have been consecrated by independent Ukrainian bishops, into the GOCA. After his reception, he participated in the consecration of Archimandrite John (Egan) as Bishop of Colorado Springs, along with Archbishop Gregory, on January 6, 2008."  

Here is the link to the website:

 http://orthodoxwiki.org/Genuine_Orthodox_Church_of_America

I would add this: If ever this bishop would be genuine, we would have heard of him many years ago. The world of Tradition is so small! Imagine: If really a true Catholic bishop would have helped traditional Catholics in the USA, as a friend of Archbishop Lefebvre, for how long would this have remained a secret?

God bless you all.



More info about Mr Bishop Ambrose Moran
« Reply #4 on: September 29, 2015, 04:15:59 PM »
I really didn't want to fan the flames of this story more but I just want to add one quick idea quickly.

The old Code of Cannon Law was much stricter on the ordination of Eastern Catholic Bishops. The synod of the Church had to submit extensive dossiers to Rome for approval from the "Affairs of the Oriental Rites" (now, Congregation of the Oriental Churches).

In the new Code of Cannon Law, unless there is a "just cause" the Holy See Congregation of Oriental Churches does nothing besides approving candidates. They do the same thing with cathedrals. The bishops/synods of the Churches have authority to ordain bishops/designate cathedrals/etc. However, they have to notify the Congregation to obtain approval (which is normally granted). This is just a gesture to further emphasize their unity with Rome and keep correct count for the annuarium pontificium.

One recent example of the newly elected Patriarch of Armenian Catholics, His Beatitude Gregorius Petrus XX Ghabroyan. His Beatitude is 81 years old and way past the normal retirement age for bishops. However, the bishops synod elected him Patriarch. Rome has no authority or "just" ground to not approve his election and he was approved immediately.

I don't understand Bishop William/Ambrose's timeline well enough, but, if he was a validly ordained bishops, there will be a paper trail somewhere. The easiest was would be to check the annuarium pontificium for the year he claims to be ordained a bishop. His name should be listed.