http://vaticaninsider.lastampa.it/en/homepage/the-vatican/detail/articolo/mueller-17083/



07/25/2012
Müller: “Let us overcome ideological clashes in the Church”

“L’Osservatore Romano”, the official newspaper of the Holy See holds a wide-ranging interview with the new Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith
ANDREA TORNIELLI
vatican city


“Groups - the so-called traditionalists and progressivists - are also a problem that takes up a great deal of our time and energy. Here there is a danger of slightly losing sight of our main task which is to announce the Gospel and communicate Church doctrine in a concrete way. We are certain that there is no alternative to God’s revelation through Jesus Christ. The Revelation responds to the great questions mankind has always had throughout the ages…” The newly-elected Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, Archbishop Gerhard Müller, said this in an interview with the Holy See’s official daily broadsheet, L’Osservatore Romano.

 
In response to a question on the transformation of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, instigated by Paul VI, the new Prefect commented: “The Church is above all a community of faith and so revealed faith is the most important asset. We must therefore pass it on, announce and look after it. Jesus entrusted Peter and his successors with the universal magisterium and the dicastery must work in service of this magisterium…I think the most important aspect of the dicastery’s transformation” was to do with “the principal direction of its work. Pope Paul VI wanted the positive aspect to be highlighted: the Congregation must, above all, promote faith and make it understandable. This is crucial. Another important point is that faith must be defended against errors and corruption. At this present time we need hope and impetus to move forward. If we look at the world, particularly at our European countries, which are naturally the ones I most familiar with, we see many politicians and economists accomplishing extraordinary things; but they are not the first people we should look at when it comes to transmitting faith and trust.”

 
After speaking about his experiences in Latin America, where he met with the poor and witnessed the work the Church is doing to help, Müller answered a question about the Church's “disputes with the Lefebvrians and the LWCR.” “It is important for the future of the Church - he said – to overcome ideological differences wherever these may stem from. God’s revelation exclusively through Jesus Christ was entrusted to the whole Church. For this reason the Word of God cannot be negotiated and one cannot believe and at the same time not believe. One cannot pronounce the three religious vows and then not take them seriously. One cannot refer to Church tradition and then only accept parts of it. The Church’s path leads forwards and all are invited not to limit themselves to a self-referential way of thinking but to accept the full life and faith of the Church.”

 
The Prefect went on to state that “In the eyes of the Catholic Church, men and women obviously have equal worth: the story of creation states this and the order of salvation confirms it. Human beings do not need to be emancipated, to create themselves or invent themselves on their own. They are already emancipated and free through God’s grace. Many statements regarding the admission of women to the sacrament of Order fail to take into account an important aspect of the priestly ministry. Being a priest does not mean creating a position for oneself. The priestly ministry should not be considered as a kind of position of earthly power and people should not think that emancipation only comes when everyone can occupy this position. Catholic faith knows it is not us who set the conditions for admission to the priestly ministry and that behind the priesthood lies Christ’s will and calling. Nuns and monks in America have accomplished extraordinary things for the Church, for education and for young people. Christ needs young people to follow along this path and indentify with this important personal choice. The Second Vatican Council did marvellous work in terms of the renewal of religious life and the common vocation to sanctity. It is important to strengthen mutual trust instead of working against one another.”

Modernism has to refresh its talking points every so often because the old lies grow stale after too many figure them out. Once that happens, fresh new lies are brought in recharge the battery of Modernism. Lie replacement is effective because most Conservatives fear the accusation of conspiracy theory therefore will look only at the individual trees, never the forest.

In this latest cycle of the new springtime:

doctrine = "ideology"

The Fellayist talking point "2012 is not 1988" is true because the Modernist lies of 2012 genuinely differ from those employed in 1988.

We are onto something here. But wait. There is more:


How can this (first post, Tornielli) mean something different to one person than it does to someone else?

This is how: take these words --

Gospel
Church doctrine
God's revelation
Jesus Christ
faith
universal magisterium
positive aspect
errors
corruption
trust
Church
Word of God
religious vows
Church tradition
full life and faith of the Church
Catholic Church
worth
creation
order of salvation
emancipated
God's grace
sacrament of Order
priestly ministry
priest
earthly power
Christ's will
mutual trust

-- take those words and phrases, and strip from them the meaning that you
would have thought them to have, and give each of them a new meaning,
whatever you would like that to be. The meaning you choose doesn't matter,
so long as it is not the same as the meaning they had before. The idea here is
CHANGE. You are changing definitions of words.

Now go back and read the first post, using your new definitions for these words
and phrases, and see if the whole thing doesn't now mean something different to
you than it did previously.

This is how they get new meanings out of the same paragraphs.

And this is how they can get a whole new message from reading books from
hundreds of years ago. They even get a whole new message from reading
Scripture, for example. The writings of the saints take on a whole world of new
nuances and significance. Suddenly, the Apostles promoted ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity, and
the Fathers and Doctors of the Church were in favor of pantheism and polygamy,
for example. What a "bright new wonderful tomorrow" we can have this way!

[/sarcasm]

Any SSPX priest who gets even a vague glimmer of expectation out of the
prospect of working productively with Archbishop Gerhard Müller ought to be
sincerely ashamed of himself. This includes +Fellay.

http://vaticaninsider.lastampa.it/en/homepage/the-vatican/detail/articolo/mueller-17083/



07/25/2012
Müller: “Let us overcome ideological clashes in the Church”

“L’Osservatore Romano”, the official newspaper of the Holy See holds a wide-ranging interview with the new Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith
ANDREA TORNIELLI
vatican city


“Groups - the so-called traditionalists and progressivists - are also a problem that takes up a great deal of our time and energy. Here there is a danger of slightly losing sight of our main task which is to announce the Gospel and communicate Church doctrine in a concrete way. We are certain that there is no alternative to God’s revelation through Jesus Christ. The Revelation responds to the great questions mankind has always had throughout the ages…” The newly-elected Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, Archbishop Gerhard Müller, said this in an interview with the Holy See’s official daily broadsheet, L’Osservatore Romano.

 
In response to a question on the transformation of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, instigated by Paul VI, the new Prefect commented: “The Church is above all a community of faith and so revealed faith is the most important asset. We must therefore pass it on, announce and look after it. Jesus entrusted Peter and his successors with the universal magisterium and the dicastery must work in service of this magisterium…I think the most important aspect of the dicastery’s transformation” was to do with “the principal direction of its work. Pope Paul VI wanted the positive aspect to be highlighted: the Congregation must, above all, promote faith and make it understandable. This is crucial. Another important point is that faith must be defended against errors and corruption. At this present time we need hope and impetus to move forward. If we look at the world, particularly at our European countries, which are naturally the ones I most familiar with, we see many politicians and economists accomplishing extraordinary things; but they are not the first people we should look at when it comes to transmitting faith and trust.”

 
After speaking about his experiences in Latin America, where he met with the poor and witnessed the work the Church is doing to help, Müller answered a question about the Church's “disputes with the Lefebvrians and the LWCR.” “It is important for the future of the Church - he said – to overcome ideological differences wherever these may stem from. God’s revelation exclusively through Jesus Christ was entrusted to the whole Church. For this reason the Word of God cannot be negotiated and one cannot believe and at the same time not believe. One cannot pronounce the three religious vows and then not take them seriously. One cannot refer to Church tradition and then only accept parts of it. The Church’s path leads forwards and all are invited not to limit themselves to a self-referential way of thinking but to accept the full life and faith of the Church.”

 
The Prefect went on to state that “In the eyes of the Catholic Church, men and women obviously have equal worth: the story of creation states this and the order of salvation confirms it. Human beings do not need to be emancipated, to create themselves or invent themselves on their own. They are already emancipated and free through God’s grace. Many statements regarding the admission of women to the sacrament of Order fail to take into account an important aspect of the priestly ministry. Being a priest does not mean creating a position for oneself. The priestly ministry should not be considered as a kind of position of earthly power and people should not think that emancipation only comes when everyone can occupy this position. Catholic faith knows it is not us who set the conditions for admission to the priestly ministry and that behind the priesthood lies Christ’s will and calling. Nuns and monks in America have accomplished extraordinary things for the Church, for education and for young people. Christ needs young people to follow along this path and indentify with this important personal choice. The Second Vatican Council did marvellous work in terms of the renewal of religious life and the common vocation to sanctity. It is important to strengthen mutual trust instead of working against one another.”

What does newRome really think about the delay in getting the SSPX in the tent?

Is this article by Muller meant to explain the conciliar position to traditionalists?

I wonder if the Pope realizes or even cares that Muller's assignment as head of the CDF "queered" the SSPX prelature deal?  

 :furtive:

What does newRome really think about the delay in getting the SSPX in the tent?

Is this article by Muller meant to explain the conciliar position to traditionalists?

I wonder if the Pope realizes or even cares that Muller's assignment as head of the CDF "queered" the SSPX prelature deal?  

 :furtive:

Is it possible that some of these statements are mere talking points or some form of psy-ops to enrage or pacify targeted groups?

As for B XVI, he chose Muller for the spot because B XVI thinks Muller is the kind of guy to take NewChurch in the direction he wants it to go.  Guys, it's at least a probability that Muller will be the NEXT POPE!  

Quote from: Incredulous

What does newRome really think about the delay in getting the SSPX in the tent?

Is this article by Muller meant to explain the conciliar position to traditionalists?

I wonder if the Pope realizes or even cares that Muller's assignment as head of the CDF "queered" the SSPX prelature deal?  

 :furtive:

Is it possible that some of these statements are mere talking points or some form of psy-ops to enrage or pacify targeted groups?

As for B XVI, he chose Muller for the spot because B XVI thinks Muller is the kind of guy to take NewChurch in the direction he wants it to go.  Guys, it's at least a probability that Muller will be the NEXT POPE!  

Capt'

These comments were not intended as Psy-ops.
It just appears that in the theatrical "doctrinal discussions" between newRome and newSSPX, someone failed to follow the script?

BXVI had been trying to lure the SSPX in by offering the Motu and lifting the faux excommunications... agreed?

How then could he turn around and "up the ante" by throwing Mueller in as point man and demanding aceptance of all VII with a straight face?

I don't get it?  Has the Pope lost it ?  Is someone else running the show?

I don't think Mueller, " the heretic" will be the next Pope.  
If your right, then there's going to be a tidal wave of Trads turning sede.

Incred.





 

Quote from: Marie Auxiliadora

Quote from: Neil Obstat

Quote from: Marie Auxiliadora

... (opening post) ...

Dear Marie Auxiliadora,

When you typed the name, Müller, into the title window for this thread, the system
could not recognize the letter, "ü." so it left out that letter, and now your thread
title reads, Mller. Anyone using the search feature for topics on Muller will not
find this thread, therefore. They would have to search for Mller instead.

To avoid this problem, you ought to type "Muller" in the title window, to read,
"Muller: Let us overcome ideological clashes in the Church."

The title bar does not support a number of characters, including but not limited to

" ' ~ ü < > /  = + _ ) ( * & ^ % $ # @ !

Thank you, I really appreciate it. This is not the first time it happened.

You're welcome.

Curiously, when I have tried to use apostrophe or quotations marks ( ' or " ),
they have disappeared in the title line. But here you have -  L’Os  - in your title
line, and the apostrophe shows up!

To look into that, I tried a few alternate fonts and found that your apostrophe is
not one that I can get using my keyboard. Does ' look different from ’ ? Not much.

Here's 5 of each: ''''' ’’’’’  

The first kind doesn't show up in the title line, but the second kind does.  :scratchchin:

I just pasted the title from the article that way I won't mess it up. I'm fairly illiterate in this. I'm glad I did it right.

-- take those words and phrases, and strip from them the meaning that you would have thought them to have, and give each of them a new meaning, whatever you would like that to be. The meaning you choose doesn't matter, so long as it is not the same as the meaning they had before. The idea here is CHANGE. You are changing definitions of words.

You left out the best part:

You don't even have to keep a constant definition for any of the terms.  You can change the meaning in mid-sentence.  A term can have one meaning in the subject and an entirely different meaning in the predicate.  

Thus, the Modernist is not bound in the least to any particular thought or idea.  He absolutely denies that anything is absolute!

Facts and Truth are anathema to the Modernist.  The only thing that matters is power.