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Author Topic: Miles Christi volume 24 discussion - Fr Chazal's newsletter  (Read 59350 times)

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Re: Miles Christi volume 24 discussion - Fr Chazal's newsletter
« Reply #480 on: March 12, 2023, 05:58:37 PM »
“Bellarmine is clear and explicit on this general point: that the separation from the body of the Church, as well as loss of office and all jurisdiction, are accomplished by the very act of heresy, ex natura hæresis, and not by the judgment of the Church, or as a penalty for an ecclesiastical delict. This sententia is de fide regarding firstly the separation from the Church, in virtue of 1) the unanimity of the Fathers, 2) the teaching of the universal magisterium set forth in the Roman Catechism, and, 3) the teaching of Pius XII in Mystici Corporis; and secondly, it is de fide regarding the loss of office and jurisdiction, because of 1) the unanimity of the Fathers on this point which Bellarmine amply demonstrates in his refutation of Opinion No. 4, and 2) the canonical doctrine of the Church proposed by the papal ordinary magisterium in Canon 188. 4°; which, therefore, qualifies it as a doctrine pertaining to the universal and ordinary magisterium. Thus, it is not a mere question of law, but of definitive magisterial doctrine that heretics and schismatics are separated from the Church by their own actions suapte natura, apart from any ecclesiastical law or judgment; and that the consequent loss of office and jurisdiction is not the result of any penal sanction or any judgment pronounced by the Church, but is the direct effect of the act of defection from the Church, sine alia vi externa; which therefore, not by any human law, takes place ex natura hæresis or ex natura schismatis.”

Kramer, Paul. To deceive the elect: The catholic doctrine on the question of a heretical Pope . Kindle Edition.

"Definitive magisterial doctrine". Poor Father Kramer. Why then did the Church tolerate so many 'heretics' among her distinguished theologians for so many centuries after Bellarmine?

Re: Miles Christi volume 24 discussion - Fr Chazal's newsletter
« Reply #481 on: March 14, 2023, 12:02:59 PM »
"Definitive magisterial doctrine". Poor Father Kramer. Why then did the Church tolerate so many 'heretics' among her distinguished theologians for so many centuries after Bellarmine?
Didn't Fr. Chazal associate with Fr. Kramer for some time? Have they separated because of Fr. Kramer's Bennyvacantism?


Re: Miles Christi volume 24 discussion - Fr Chazal's newsletter
« Reply #482 on: March 14, 2023, 06:44:48 PM »
Didn't Fr. Chazal associate with Fr. Kramer for some time? Have they separated because of Fr. Kramer's Bennyvacantism?
Yes, sadly, he did. I'm fairly sure he was staying at Fr Chazal's Philippines seminary at one stage. Perhaps that was part of Father Chazal's motivation to write Contra Cekadam. Apparently Fr Kramer had a very large BV following in Ireland. I wonder what they all believe now...

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Re: Miles Christi volume 24 discussion - Fr Chazal's newsletter
« Reply #483 on: March 14, 2023, 07:06:09 PM »
"Definitive magisterial doctrine". Poor Father Kramer. Why then did the Church tolerate so many 'heretics' among her distinguished theologians for so many centuries after Bellarmine?

Not sure if Father Kramer is anti-Feeneyite, but if he were to sound off in that regard it would be nice to note this to him at such a time.

Re: Miles Christi volume 24 discussion - Fr Chazal's newsletter
« Reply #484 on: March 15, 2023, 06:23:16 PM »
"Definitive magisterial doctrine". Poor Father Kramer. Why then did the Church tolerate so many 'heretics' among her distinguished theologians for so many centuries after Bellarmine?

Yes.  It is definitive magisterial doctrine.  It seems that you have not been paying attention to what has been placed in front of you.