Thanks, Stubborn!
So I just wonder why unanimously the Church Fathers, and all those saints and popes
spent all that time saying that heretics are outside the Church and barred from office
when it's simply not true?
I do not say it is simply not true, I say if the conciliar popes are not or were never popes, only a future pope can decide the matter and that, scheme tho some of us may, we can do absolutely nothing about it - by divine design.
I say the conciliar popes are not manifest heretics, I say their belief is that they cannot spiritually harm the faithful and that whatever they teach is divinely protected. I say this belief is error or heresy, but what it is not, it is not manifest or formal heresy. IOW, they do what they do because they believe this is what the Church teaches, not to intentionally contradict the Church - this they, like the sedes, believe is impossible anyway. The difference is that they *really* believe it.
I say the the sedes also wrongfully believe the same as the conciliar popes, i.e. that popes cannot spiritually harm the faithful and whatever they teach is divinely protected. Which is to say the sedes belief is error or heresy, likely heresy. IOW, the sedes do what they do because they believe this is what the Church teaches, not to intentionally contradict the Church. So when sedes see popes preaching heresy, they wrongfully believe this is impossible for popes to do and on that account decide popes are not popes.
All of this is to say that the sedes and the conciliar popes share the exact same wrong beliefs as regards Divine protection/guidance for popes. This wrong belief makes popes modernist eccuмainiacs and the sedes, sedes.
So they all proclaim that you can worship false gods
and still be Catholic
and as long as they believe it with every fiber of their being
it's not a heresy that puts them outside the Church?
Does that work for me too?
Does that work for Novus Ordo folks?
Are there any heresies that put people outside the Church?
If not, then why have a Church?
The conciliar popes all wrongfully believe that all Councils are infallible ipso facto, just the same as sedes believe. The conciliar popes believe those errors and heretical teachings of V2 are in fact de fide truths of the Church because those teachings came from a Council.
Their foundation is the premise that all councils are infallible, ergo V2 was infallible. The conciliar popes do what they do because they understand that V2 was infallible and that everything popes preach is divinely protected. This is of course altogether wrong, but it is based on the false premise that all councils are infallible ipso facto.
No, it does not work for you, NOers, popes or anyone. All those who do not find the truth and live it will not make it to heaven.
My opinion is that when the popes, fathers, saints etc., say that all heretics are outside of the Church, they can only mean those heretics who've never been members of the Church, such as prots and all other non-Catholics who've never had the Catholic faith.
The one thing no one can dispute is that if ever a Catholic loses the Catholic faith (which is a sin in and of itself) and becomes a raving heretic (this is of course another sin) then comes to his senses and wants to repent, he must go to confession the same as all Catholics - and only Catholics are permitted to do.