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Author Topic: Miles Christi volume 24 discussion - Fr Chazal's newsletter  (Read 59237 times)

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Re: Miles Christi volume 24 discussion - Fr Chazal's newsletter
« Reply #125 on: January 22, 2023, 10:39:07 PM »
Benedict (the great Trad)

(the Katechon---according to Vigano)

says:  No need to convert the Jєωs!

in his book, written while the "acting" pope

and in interviews

and he makes sure the press gets his statement right! 

That's a neat idea,

sounds loving

except it would have been nice if somebody had sent a memo

to poor Jesus and let him know

that he didn't have to go through all of that torture and suffering and death!    smh

14min 16sec

https://www.bitchute.com/video/by2wJfpX0MjG/



Like the rest of these "popes" he is not just a formal heretic but

an antichrist!


[3] And every spirit that dissolveth Jesus, is not of God: and this is Antichrist, of whom you have heard that he cometh, and he is now already in the world.
1 John 4:3



Let us make reparation in prayer:



O Jesus, my Saviour and Redeemer, Son of the living God, behold, we kneel before Thee and offer Thee our reparation; we would make amends for all the blasphemies uttered against Thy holy name, for all the injuries done to Thee in the Blessed Sacrament, for all the irreverence shown toward Thine Immaculate Virgin Mother, for all the calumnies and slanders spoken against Thy spouse, the holy Catholic and Roman Church. O Jesus, who hast said: "If you ask the Father anything in My name, He will give it to you", we pray and beseech Thee for all our brethren who are in danger of sin; shield them from every temptation to fall away from the true faith; save those who are even now standing on the brink of the abyss; to all of them give light and knowledge of the truth, courage and strength for the conflict with evil, perseverance in faith and active charity! For this do we pray, most merciful Jesus, in Thy name, unto God the Father, with whom Thou livest and reignest in the unity of the Holy Spirit world without end. Amen


Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Miles Christi volume 24 discussion - Fr Chazal's newsletter
« Reply #126 on: January 23, 2023, 12:07:13 AM »
Catholic Knight,

I agree with you that manifest formal heresy separates the heretic from the Church. I think Sean agrees with you on this point also.

Formal heresy requires demonstration of pertinacity, as has been adequately discussed. This requires demonstration that the culprit understands that he is contradicting a dogma of the Faith and in spite of this knowledge remains obstinate in his heresy.

Where is the evidence that this Pope or any of his predecessors are formal heretics?

"Formality" is a tricky term because it's morphed somewhat over the years into a subjective meaning.  But what it simply means is that it entails a rejection of the rule of faith, which then entails an undermining of the formal motive of faith.  It's become way too subjective, though, to the point that it could never be discerned in the external forum, where it means that the heretic needs to know something is revealed by God and reject it anyway.  It's like that absurd definition of EENS, where you can't be saved if you know that the Catholic Church is the True Church of God and refuse to join it anyway ... therefore making all but the most obdurate Satanist capable of being saved.  Which heretic isn't convinced he's right and that he's the one being faithful to God's revealed truth?  Even after being rebuked by the Church and condemned, they continue insisting that they're right.  Arius and Nestorius were both convinced they were right, and so were Luther and Calvin.

But one can lack the formal motive of faith by simply being a Modernist, which these men all have been.  Why?  Because they don't believe that there IS an objective rule of faith that must be adhered to, since for them dogma progresses and changes, and people come to a "fuller understanding" that invalidates previous doctrinal "expressions".  So they have a different rule of faith, which is a blend of objective and subjective, and, like the Protestants, make themselves the ultimate rule of faith.  That is why Modernism is the synthesis of all heresy, because just as with the other heresies, they replace the objective rule of faith, the Deposit of Revelation, as determined by the Church's Magisterium, with their own subjective interpretation thereof, and their current interpretation leads to the evolution of doctrine.  As a result, they lack the formal rule of faith, and the mere absence of the formal motive/rule of faith suffices to make one be a non-Catholic.

For these Modernists, there is no such thing as, "Church taught this dogmatic proposition, so I assent to this proposition."  For them a proposition is just an imperfect window into the fuller truth that becomes clearer over time.  They don't consider themselves bound by prior "formulations" of the truth, and so they have no objective rule as a set of dogmatic propositions that they feel they must adhere to as they were defined.

They pay lip service to "Tradition", but for them this does not mean adhering to the past doctrinal definitions, but as Bergoglio recently re-defined it, Tradition means the "progress" of doctrine.

Bergoglio:
Quote
A church that does not develop its thinking in an ecclesial sense is a church that is going backward.  This is today’s problem, and of many who call themselves traditional. No, no, they are not traditional, they are people looking to the past, going backward.

So adhering to Church dogma as once defined is not "Traditionalism" but "backwardism" (a term he used later in the same interview).  For him, to be Traditional means to constantly have dogma evolving.  So they REDEFINE Tradition.  Bergoglio actually cited St. Vincent of Lerins, whom Traditionalists cite in support of their position.

Bergoglio and the other Modernists don't believe in a "static" set of propositions to which they must assent as defined, and so they lack the formal motive of faith, and they have manifested this.

Here is +Vigano's very recent anti-Modernist definition of Tradition:
Quote
Let me point out this important aspect: just as the human body develops antibodies when disease arises, so that it can be defeated when it is infected; so too the ecclesial body defends itself from the contagion of error when it occurs, affirming with greater incisiveness those aspects of dogma threatened by heresy. For this reason, with great wisdom, the Church proclaimed Truths of the Faith at certain times and not before, since those Truths were hitherto believed by the faithful in a less explicit and articulated form and it was not yet necessary to specify them.

Nevertheless, demonstrating pertinacious manifest heresy can be problematic.  And that's why for years I have argued that it is the wrong question.

We see a new religion established, a new Modernistic theological system taught by the Conciliar "Magisterium," a new Public Worship that displeases God and harms souls, and corruption of the Church's moral teaching.  We see a religion that lacks the marks of the One True Church founded by Christ, and would not be reconizable to a St. Pius X or St. Pius V ... were these saints to have been time-warped forward to our day.  It is incompatible with the promises of Our Lord, and with the protection of the Holy Spirit over the Papacy, that the free exercise of legitimate papal authority could yield such corruption.  This is something that Archbishop Lefebvre also believed.  But as to HOW and WHY and WHO and WHAT, as to the details of how this could have come about, we do not have dogmatic certainty.  Could these men have been blackmailed and were therefore not acting freely?  I personally believe that the See was impeded by Cardinal Siri (Pope Gregory XVII) until his death in 1989, and thus the elections of Roncalli, Montini, Luciani, and Wojtyla were not legitimate.  After that, Ratzinger and Bergoglio haven't been valid bishops, and thus they cannot fully exercise the papal office, especially the teaching authority, as only bishops are part of the Ecclesia Docens, and the Pope must be "Bishop of Rome".  Others argue that there have been doubles, or that the V2 popes were drugged.  Or they're just plain heretics.  Really, the WHY doesn't matter so much as upholding the principle that this destruction could not have bee wrought by the legitimate Papal Authority freely exercised.  Period.

Archbishop Lefebvre prescinded from making the determination about the how and the why, but he repeatedly affirmed that it is not possible for this to happen given the protection of the Holy Spirit over the Papacy, something which subsequent generations of R&R have rejected.

+Lefebvre:
Quote
…a grave problem confronts the conscience and the faith of all Catholics since the beginning of Paul VI’s pontificate: how can a pope who is truly successor of Peter, to whom the assistance of the Holy Ghost has been promised, preside over the most radical and far-reaching destruction of the Church ever known, in so short a time, beyond what any heresiarch has ever achieved? This question must one day be answered…

This is a rhetorical question, which he answered elsewhere by agreeing with the sedevacantists that it's not possible, given the assistance of the Holy Ghost, and said that SVism is a possible solution.  But he never had enough certainty regarding the details to definitively declare the See vacant.  I have elsewhere on CI posted the Youtube audio of his talk, which Father Ringrose posted upon becoming a sedevacantist.


Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Miles Christi volume 24 discussion - Fr Chazal's newsletter
« Reply #127 on: January 23, 2023, 12:12:09 AM »
Benedict (the great Trad)

(the Katechon---according to Vigano)

Do you really have to spam up every thread with this same nonsense?  We're not talking about this here.

So the other day, according to you and your ilk, THE Katechon was Trump.  Except that if you look at what +Vigano wrote, he clearly believed in multiple katcha (plural and lower case) as in the sense of "dominos that had to fall" before the NWO was fully entrenched.  It's the same way that people can distinguish between The Antichrist and multiple antichrists, forerunnners of the Antichrist.  And, as been pointed out, there have been numerous interpretations of the term, including one where the Katechon referred to by St. Paul was actually the Antichrist, who was holiding back Our Lord's Second Coming (so the opposite sense).  But, of course, this has been pointed out to you, but you persist in your nonsense.

Re: Miles Christi volume 24 discussion - Fr Chazal's newsletter
« Reply #128 on: January 23, 2023, 01:55:43 AM »
Do you really have to spam up every thread with this same nonsense?  We're not talking about this here.

So the other day, according to you and your ilk, THE Katechon was Trump.  Except that if you look at what +Vigano wrote, he clearly believed in multiple katcha (plural and lower case) as in the sense of "dominos that had to fall" before the NWO was fully entrenched.  It's the same way that people can distinguish between The Antichrist and multiple antichrists, forerunnners of the Antichrist.  And, as been pointed out, there have been numerous interpretations of the term, including one where the Katechon referred to by St. Paul was actually the Antichrist, who was holiding back Our Lord's Second Coming (so the opposite sense).  But, of course, this has been pointed out to you, but you persist in your nonsense.

Lad, you abhor slander so I don't know why you would say these things about me.

Can you provide evidence that I've ever said that Trump is the Katechon?  No.

It's been a task keeping up with Vigano's various Katechons...

as far as I have been able to tally

he recognizes three:

1.  Trump
2.  Benedict
3.  Moscow --the Third Rome


What do they all hold in common?

None of them hold to the Catholic Faith.

Trump is the greatest promoter of the NWO by overseeing the pandemic farce (even though Vigano lied and said it would never happen under Trump when everyone knows it did)

and he oversaw Operation Warpspeed to bring the gene editing death shot to the world.  How can he be a Katechon?  smh

Benedict proclaimed "as pope" that all religions lead to Heaven and prayed at the wailing wall and in ѕуηαgσgυєs (where they pray to USHER IN the Antichrist).  How can he be a Katechon?? 

Moscow sees itself as the THIRD ROME built on the ashes of the Catholic Church.  Um....that's not a Catholic idea much less some kind of Katechon.

The Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox traditions consider that the Antichrist will come at the End of the World. The katechon - what restrains his coming - was someone or something that was known to the Thessalonians and active in their time: "You know what is restraining" (2:6). As the Catholic New American Bible states: "Traditionally, 2 Thes 2:6 has been applied to the Roman empire and 2 Thes 2:7 to the Roman emperor [...] as bulwarks holding back chaos (cf Romans 13:1-7)"[1]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katechon#:~:text=The%20Roman%20Catholic%20and%20Eastern,%22%20(2%3A6).

Now you want to play games and tell everyone that Katechon actually means the Antichrist himself?


The Antichrist is restraining the Antichrist??



Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Miles Christi volume 24 discussion - Fr Chazal's newsletter
« Reply #129 on: January 23, 2023, 02:26:23 AM »
Lad, you abhor slander so I don't know why you would say these things about me.

Can you provide evidence that I've ever said that Trump is the Katechon?  No.

It's been a task keeping up with Vigano's various Katechons...

as far as I have been able to tally

he recognizes three:

1.  Trump
2.  Benedict
3.  Moscow --the Third Rome

I never asserted that YOU called Trump a katechon, but rather that you asserted that +Vigano called him a katechon, which you repeat a few sentences down in your own post.

You should realize from the 3 listed, that +Vigano is using the term not in the sense of THE Katechon, but rather of multiple katechons, i.e. dominos to fall before the full blossoming of the nєω ωσrℓ∂ σr∂єr.  Nor does one have to be an active restrainer (i.e. a Catholic) but merely a passive obstacle ... in the sense that +Vigano uses it.

Please stop slandering +Vigano by attributing to him things he's never said.

I would view Pius XII as a katechon, even though I fully realize that he did a lot to usher in the Vatican II era, rather than having actively restrained it.