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Author Topic: Miles Christi volume 24 discussion - Fr Chazal's newsletter  (Read 59764 times)

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Offline Miser Peccator

Re: Miles Christi volume 24 discussion - Fr Chazal's newsletter
« Reply #285 on: January 26, 2023, 07:44:14 PM »
Quote from: Meg on January 26, 2023, 07:40:46 PM
No I don't have an explanation. Why do you need an explanation? Is it only so that you can try to prove that +ABL was really a sedevacantist?

No.  

I'm just asking for an explanation because the concept doesn't make sense.

How can an antichrist not be a heretic?

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Offline Meg

Re: Miles Christi volume 24 discussion - Fr Chazal's newsletter
« Reply #286 on: January 26, 2023, 07:48:14 PM »
Quote from: Miser Peccator on January 26, 2023, 07:44:14 PM
No. 

I'm just asking for an explanation because the concept doesn't make sense.

How can an antichrist not be a heretic?

I have no idea. But I'm not concerned about it, because I don't think as a sedevacantist does.

I understand that everything has to make perfect sense to a sedevacantist, but as +ABL said many times, there is a certain mystery to the Crisis that we cannot understand. "It's a mystery!" he used to say. He was right, IMO. 
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Offline Miser Peccator

Re: Miles Christi volume 24 discussion - Fr Chazal's newsletter
« Reply #287 on: January 26, 2023, 07:55:24 PM »
Quote from: Meg on January 26, 2023, 07:48:14 PM
I have no idea. But I'm not concerned about it, because I don't think as a sedevacantist does.

I understand that everything has to make perfect sense to a sedevacantist, but as +ABL said many times, there is a certain mystery to the Crisis that we cannot understand. "It's a mystery!" he used to say. He was right, IMO.

Well, if you could explain it to me perhaps I would stop being a sedevacantist and join you.

I only care about the truth and not "what side" I'm on.

Once we "take sides" we only look for information that fits our confirmation bias.

Perhaps I am wrong about sedevacantism.

Perhaps ABL is correct and these popes were antichrists but they were not heretics because if they were heretics it would mean their elections were invalid and apparently that simply cannot be.

Maybe somebody else here has the answer.

Is it truly possible to be an antichrist and not a heretic?

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Offline Meg

Re: Miles Christi volume 24 discussion - Fr Chazal's newsletter
« Reply #288 on: January 26, 2023, 08:01:54 PM »
Quote from: Miser Peccator on January 26, 2023, 07:55:24 PM
Well, if you could explain it to me perhaps I would stop being a sedevacantist and join you.

I only care about the truth and not "what side" I'm on.

Once we "take sides" we only look for information that fits our confirmation bias.

Perhaps I am wrong about sedevacantism.

Perhaps ABL is correct and these popes were antichrists but they were not heretics because if they were heretics it would mean their elections were invalid and apparently that simply cannot be.

Maybe somebody else here has the answer.

Is it truly possible to be an antichrist and not a heretic?

I don't need you to stop being a sedevacantist. What I don't like is when sedevacantists try to make +ABL into a sedevacantist, or would-be sedevacantist, because he wasn't one.

Maybe it's possible that we aren't meant to have all of the answers?

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Offline Plenus Venter

Re: Miles Christi volume 24 discussion - Fr Chazal's newsletter
« Reply #289 on: January 26, 2023, 08:36:07 PM »
Quote from: Miser Peccator on January 26, 2023, 07:34:38 PM

I understand.  It's important to go by docuŠ¼ented statements.

How did he explain that an antichrist is not a heretic?

Do you have any quotes for that?
How do you explain that an anti-Christ must be a heretic, MP?

Is a satanist necessarily a heretic? But he is anti-Christ, right?

Let us take a quote from St Robert Bellarmine on the Pope: On The Church, Vol I, Bk II, On The Authority of Councils, Ch XIX, The Responses of Our Adversaries are Refuted:

"But they will say, therefore, only the Church remains without an efficacious human remedy if it has a bad Pope, and the Pope can disturb all things unpunished, and destroy and no one will be able to resist.

"I respond: No wonder, if the Church remains without an efficacious human remedy, seeing that its safety does not rest principally upon human industry, but divine protection, since God is its king. Therefore, even if the Church could not depose a Pope, still, it may and must beg the Lord that He would apply the remedy, and it is certain that God has care of its safety, that he would either convert the Pope or abolish him from the midst before he destroys the Church. Nevertheless, it does not follow from here that it is not lawful to resist a Pope destroying the Church; for it is lawful to admonish him while preserving all reverence, and to modestly correct him, even to oppose him with force and arms if he means to destroy the Church. For to resist and repel by force of arms, no authority is required. See more on this with Juan Torquemada, lib. 2 cap. 106."

Archbishop Lefebvre would call such a Pope an anti-Christ.

Would you not agree, MP?

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