Send CathInfo's owner Matthew a gift from his Amazon wish list:
https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

« previous next »
Pages: 1 ... 32 33 [34] 35 36 ... 101

Author Topic: Miles Christi volume 24 discussion - Fr Chazal's newsletter  (Read 59507 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Quo vadis Domine

  • Supporter
Re: Miles Christi volume 24 discussion - Fr Chazal's newsletter
« Reply #165 on: January 23, 2023, 08:47:52 PM »
Quote from: Plenus Venter on January 23, 2023, 08:41:04 PM
ST FRANCIS DE SALES:

"Now when he is explicitly a heretic, he falls ipso facto from his dignity and out of the Church, and the Church must either deprive him, or, as some say, declare him deprived, of his Apostolic See, and must say as S. Peter did: Let another take his bishopric" - The Catholic Controversy (p306 in my edition)

When St Francis says "explicitly a heretic", does that mean a material heretic, or a formal heretic? Formal, I would say, because nobody is a heretic and outside the Church simply on account of a materially heretical statement.

Exactly! The pertinent part is: “he falls ipso facto from his dignity and out of the Church“……He has already fallen…….THEN…..the CHURCH acts. He already lost his office automatically, then to tidy up everything, the Church makes a declaration.
Logged

Offline Quo vadis Domine

  • Supporter
Re: Miles Christi volume 24 discussion - Fr Chazal's newsletter
« Reply #166 on: January 23, 2023, 08:50:16 PM »
Quote from: SeanJohnson on January 23, 2023, 08:47:19 PM
They have no nsswer for this ^^^

Sean, why do you continue to ignore the three Doctors of the Church I’ve quoted?
Logged

Offline SeanJohnson

Re: Miles Christi volume 24 discussion - Fr Chazal's newsletter
« Reply #167 on: January 23, 2023, 09:01:10 PM »
Quote from: Quo vadis Domine on January 23, 2023, 08:50:16 PM
Sean, why do you continue to ignore the three Doctors of the Church I’ve quoted?

So you’re conceding Paul IV - cuм ex is irrelevant?
Logged

Offline SeanJohnson

Re: Miles Christi volume 24 discussion - Fr Chazal's newsletter
« Reply #168 on: January 23, 2023, 09:02:17 PM »
Quote from: Quo vadis Domine on January 23, 2023, 08:47:52 PM
Exactly! The pertinent part is: “he falls ipso facto from his dignity and out of the Church“……He has already fallen…….THEN…..the CHURCH acts. He already lost his office automatically, then to tidy up everything, the Church makes a declaration.

“…and the Church must deprive him…”

You ‘accidentally’ forgot to include that part.
Logged

Offline Plenus Venter

Re: Miles Christi volume 24 discussion - Fr Chazal's newsletter
« Reply #169 on: January 23, 2023, 09:02:48 PM »
Quote from: Quo vadis Domine on January 23, 2023, 06:04:03 PM
Especially after Vatican I, I prefer to learn from:

Saint Alphonsus, Saint Robert Bellarmine, Saint Francis de Sales, Saint Antoninus, Pope Paul IV, Pope Innocent III, Coronata, Vermeersch, Regatillo, Wernz-Vidal among many others.
ST ANTONINUS  (+1459):
 
In the case in which the pope would become a heretic, he would find himself, by that fact alone and without any other sentence, separated from the Church. A head separated from a body cannot, as long as it remains separated, be head of the same body from which it was cut off. A pope who would be separated from the Church by heresy, therefore, would by that very fact itself cease to be head of the Church. He could not be a heretic and remain pope, because, since he is outside of the Church, he cannot possess the keys of the Church.

Is St Antoninus talking of any and every kind of heretic? A secret heretic? A material heretic? Only a formal heretic? Are monitions and demonstration of pertinacity and a declaration necessary to know that he is a heretic before, "by that fact alone", he is separated from the Church? Can anyone provide any context to this quote?

Three centuries later, one of his Dominican successors taught this:

BILLUART (+1757):

"The more common opinion holds that Christ, by a particular providence, for the common good and the tranquility of the Church, continues to give jurisdiction to an even manifestly heretical pontiff until such time as he should be declared a manifest heretic by the Church" - De Fide, Diss V, A III No 3 Obj 2
Logged
Pages: 1 ... 32 33 [34] 35 36 ... 101
« previous next »