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Author Topic: Miles Christi volume 24 discussion - Fr Chazal's newsletter  (Read 59250 times)

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Offline Stubborn

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Re: Miles Christi volume 24 discussion - Fr Chazal's newsletter
« Reply #140 on: January 23, 2023, 10:01:57 AM »
Quote from: Ladislaus on January 23, 2023, 09:34:07 AM
And I'm going to keep writing it until some of you wake up to the fact that you've completely (and pertinaciously) embraced a heretical ecclesiology.

This is not rocket science.  Our Lord promised the assistance of the Holy Spirit to the See of Peter, an assistance which prevents it from corrupting faith or morals.
Even you do not believe this because if you did, then why aren't you NO? Instead of you believing this, you choose to use it as an excuse for a vacant chair, that's why. It certainly isn't rocket science.

The same goes for your reply to DR - you do not believe that the Magisterium is unable to be mistaken, has immunity from error and etc, instead, you choose to use it for your own purpose, as an excuse for a vacant chair.
 
All the while flinging the proverbial "heretic" around at those trying to correct you.
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Offline Meg

Re: Miles Christi volume 24 discussion - Fr Chazal's newsletter
« Reply #141 on: January 23, 2023, 10:22:48 AM »
Quote from: Ladislaus on January 23, 2023, 09:34:07 AM
And I'm going to keep writing it until some of you wake up to the fact that you've completely (and pertinaciously) embraced a heretical ecclesiology.

This is not rocket science.  Our Lord promised the assistance of the Holy Spirit to the See of Peter, an assistance which prevents it from corrupting faith or morals.

You have two choices to avoid heresy, 1) claim that faith and morals haven't been corrupted (that V2 was misinterpreted by Modernists and the NOM is not essentially bad but has been abused) or 2) assert that legitimate Papal authority exercised freely did not produce V2 and the NOM.

Within #2, you have various choices, from sedevacantism, sedeprivationism, sedeimpoundism, Siri thesis, blackmailed pope, drugged pope, pope replaced by a double, etc.

This Chair of Peter cannot fail, and to say otherwise is heretical.  Period.  End of Story.  Address it with #1 or with #2 (and any permutation of #2), but you can't simply run off and pertinaciously embrace some repackaged form of Old Catholicism / Eastern Orthodoxy / Protestantism.

You have the temerity to refer to this Basic Foundation of Catholicism as "delusion".  Unbelievable.

There is another way. It is the way of Archbishop Lefebvre. Here's an article from the Dominicans of Avrille regarding the errors of both modernism and sedevacantism, which includes the stance of +ABL. Here's a quote from the article:

"Currently, facing a crisis in the Church, there are two errors to avoid: modernism (which, little by little, makes us lose the faith) and sedevacantism (which leans towards schism). If we want to remain Catholic, we must pass between heresy and schism, between Scylla and Charybdis."

Little Catechism on Sedevacantism - PART I - Dominicans of Avrille, France (dominicansavrille.us)

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Offline SeanJohnson

Re: Miles Christi volume 24 discussion - Fr Chazal's newsletter
« Reply #142 on: January 23, 2023, 10:57:29 AM »
Quote from: Meg on January 23, 2023, 10:22:48 AM
Little Catechism on Sedevacantism - PART I - Dominicans of Avrille, France (dominicansavrille.us)

From the article (which I have been trying to explain to Mr. LaRosa since p.2 of this thread):

"If a Catholic were convinced that John Paul II (or another Pope after Vatican II) is a formal, manifest heretic, should he then conclude that he is no longer pope?

No, he should not, because according to the “common” opinion (Suarez), or even the “more common” opinion (Billuart), theologians think that even a heretical pope can continue to exercise the papacy. For him to lose his jurisdiction, the Catholic bishops (the only judges in matters of faith besides the pope, by Divine will) would have to make a declaration denouncing the pope’s heresy.

Quote
Quote “According to the more common opinion, Christ, by a particular providence, for the common good and the tranquility of the Church, continues to give jurisdiction to an even manifestly heretical pontiff until such time as he should be declared a manifest heretic by the Church” (Billuart, De Fide, diss. V, a. III, § 3, obj. 2).

Now, in so serious a matter, it is not prudent to go against the common opinion.

But how can a heretic, who is no longer a member of the Church, be its leader or head?

Fr. Garrigou-Lagrange, basing his reasoning on Billuart, explains in his treatise De Verbo Incarnato (p. 232) that a heretical pope, while no longer a member of the Church, can still be her head. Indeed, what is impossible in the case of a physical head is possible (albeit abnormal) for a secondary moral head. “The reason is that – whereas a physical head cannot influence the members without receiving the vital influx of the soul – a moral head, as is the [Roman] Pontiff, can exercise jurisdiction over the Church even if he does not receive from the soul of the Church any influx of interior faith or charity.”

In short, the pope is constituted a member of the Church by his personal faith, which he can lose, but he is head of the visible Church by jurisdiction and authority that can co-exist with heresy.


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Offline Stubborn

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Re: Miles Christi volume 24 discussion - Fr Chazal's newsletter
« Reply #143 on: January 23, 2023, 11:07:35 AM »
Quote from: Meg on January 23, 2023, 10:22:48 AM
There is another way. It is the way of Archbishop Lefebvre. Here's an article from the Dominicans of Avrille regarding the errors of both modernism and sedevacantism, which includes the stance of +ABL. Here's a quote from the article:

"Currently, facing a crisis in the Church, there are two errors to avoid: modernism (which, little by little, makes us lose the faith) and sedevacantism (which leans towards schism). If we want to remain Catholic, we must pass between heresy and schism, between Scylla and Charybdis."

Little Catechism on Sedevacantism - PART I - Dominicans of Avrille, France (dominicansavrille.us)
Actually Meg, Lad makes for himself, and then puts himself in a fallacious and inescapable corner of his own free will with his "You have two choices..."

Then he posts authentic, de fide teachings from popes declaring the infallibility of the Church's Magisterium. That the magisterium is unable to err truly is the foundation upon which everything remains standing. This he should (is actually bound to) accept and make his permanent, never changing starting point which from there, everything must completely and totally conform.

Instead, he uses the Magisterium's infallibility in such a way as to be contrary to what the popes teach the Magisterium is - always infallible. The odd thing is, the result of doing this is always the same - either a magisterium that errs, and/or a vacant chair....and me, you and all who "just don't get it" are Old Catholics and heretics who hate the Church.
 
Same tired old thing.

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Offline Quo vadis Domine

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Re: Miles Christi volume 24 discussion - Fr Chazal's newsletter
« Reply #144 on: January 23, 2023, 11:34:22 AM »
Quote from: Stubborn on January 23, 2023, 11:07:35 AM
Actually Meg, Lad makes for himself, and then puts himself in a fallacious and inescapable corner of his own free will with his "You have two choices..."

Then he posts authentic, de fide teachings from popes declaring the infallibility of the Church's Magisterium. That the magisterium is unable to err truly is the foundation upon which everything remains standing. This he should (is actually bound to) accept and make his permanent, never changing starting point which from there, everything must completely and totally conform.

Instead, he uses the Magisterium's infallibility in such a way as to be contrary to what the popes teach the Magisterium is - always infallible. The odd thing is, the result of doing this is always the same - either a magisterium that errs, and/or a vacant chair....and me, you and all who "just don't get it" are Old Catholics and heretics who hate the Church.
 
Same tired old thing.


:facepalm: Seriously?!
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