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Author Topic: Michael Voris Publishes Article on SSPX Abuse  (Read 34808 times)

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Offline Incredulous

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Re: Michael Voris Publishes Article on SSPX Abuse
« Reply #225 on: April 27, 2020, 12:10:21 PM »
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  • The USCCB are primarily judaizing ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖs!
    So there you have it:
    One HIV judaizing homo funded by Opus Dei can outshine the entire US bishoprics.
    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi

    Offline Sam Smith

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    Re: Michael Voris Publishes Article on SSPX Abuse
    « Reply #226 on: April 27, 2020, 12:29:03 PM »
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  • Read this link. It points out how much of Voris' story is manufactured hogwash.
    Or you can listen to Voris tell his life story here in 2018:



    Offline Sam Smith

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    Re: Michael Voris Publishes Article on SSPX Abuse
    « Reply #227 on: April 27, 2020, 12:42:31 PM »
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  • Read this link. It points out how much of Voris' story is manufactured hogwash.
    Come to think of it, thanks for posting that link. I had no idea Voris had spoken of "Not Born That Way" in 2016.

    Very edifying! He's a smart man.




    Offline madwoman

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    Re: Michael Voris Publishes Article on SSPX Abuse
    « Reply #228 on: April 27, 2020, 01:09:56 PM »
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  • Sam, according to the article, the SSPX found The two priests you mention guilty.  Then these two priest who I guess were under some house arrest of some kind, left to join the resistance.  Does the resistance know the back ground and are they still active priests.  I realize this article is a few years old. 

    I knew nothing about any of this till two days ago.  As I said, if even a tiny bit of this is true, what a sad day for the church.

    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Michael Voris Publishes Article on SSPX Abuse
    « Reply #229 on: April 27, 2020, 03:29:30 PM »
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  • Sam, according to the article, the SSPX found The two priests you mention guilty.  Then these two priest who I guess were under some house arrest of some kind, left to join the resistance.  Does the resistance know the back ground and are they still active priests.  I realize this article is a few years old.

    I knew nothing about any of this till two days ago.  As I said, if even a tiny bit of this is true, what a sad day for the church.
    Sam, in the other thread you said you were "Resistance" and that you don't give the SSPX the benefit of the doubt because they did nothing 3 years ago.  I am guessing you are referring to this, yes?  
    If so, it sounds like the SSPX found these priests guilty....and then they left to go to the Resistance.  What do you think of these priests being in the Resistance which you say you support?  Were you as adamant about that? 


    Offline BeatusRusticus

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    Re: Michael Voris Publishes Article on SSPX Abuse
    « Reply #230 on: April 27, 2020, 04:14:35 PM »
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  • I do think there’s also a difference between what we faithful in the pews would like or expect, and what is necessarily possible today. 

    People forget that this isn’t the Middle Ages, where religious vows may have had some force of law. In the secular world, being a priest or a religious is treated as essentially a job, choosing to work for a Nonprofit and possibly having some unusual pay or living arrangements. A priest can leave or quit at any time. 

    In other words, if a priest goes bad and decides to do something immoral, the superior is obviously going to have to handle the situation as best he can, balancing help for the victim, prevention of further evil, and if possible, help for the priest. If clerics are not being ruthlessly handed over to the secular arm (as it used to be referred to in the Middle Ages when a person was convicted in a church court and then given to the government for sentencing and punishment), it’s probably because the superiors recognize that the guilty priest will not have much shot at repentance and saving their soul in a modern jail. About all that can be reasonably expected is that if crimes were committed and the superior (employer) finds out, he report those crimes to the police. If a priest has done something that’s abhorrent (to a Catholic) but not illegal, most superiors would probably not choose to immediately defrock or expel, because then you lose control of the bad apple. Assuming you are even sure he did it. Better to transfer him somewhere else where hopefully he can’t continue his bad behavior. But that probably means not telling people about your suspicions, except on a need-to-know basis. 

    Every “bad priest” is going to be a different case. Is he a serial pederast who has for sure been sɛҳuąƖly abusing prepubescent boys? Is he an otherwise blameless and exemplary priest who has a couple of accusations or insinuations against him? “Investigation” may not be straightforward either. You don’t want to tell people the rumors unnecessarily, nor alert the man under suspicion and give him more cause to hide evidence. Was he caught having an affair with a woman? Or saying inappropriate things to an adult parishioner? All these things would probably require a different course of action. And you could sentence a priest to some kind of no-contact-with-faithful “rehab,” but there’s no guarantee he won’t just quit his order. We should not be surprised that these things are kept pretty secret. It’s not just to “protect the Church’s image.” I imagine there’s very few cases where a superior has absolute proof that a priest is guilty of crimes and can say “Ok, see, we are very transparent and hate sodomy, we caught this one abusing altar boys and now we are handing him over to the cops. Hopefully the state will execute the monster. May God have mercy on his soul.” As satisfying as that would be for everyone. 

    Offline Meg

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    Re: Michael Voris Publishes Article on SSPX Abuse
    « Reply #231 on: April 27, 2020, 04:40:24 PM »
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  • Come to think of it, thanks for posting that link. I had no idea Voris had spoken of "Not Born That Way" in 2016.

    Very edifying! He's a smart man.



    Voris is good at telling people what they want to hear. He seems to be an expert on that. 
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline Sam Smith

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    Re: Michael Voris Publishes Article on SSPX Abuse
    « Reply #232 on: April 27, 2020, 05:09:16 PM »
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  • Sam, according to the article, the SSPX found The two priests you mention guilty.  Then these two priest who I guess were under some house arrest of some kind, left to join the resistance.  Does the resistance know the back ground and are they still active priests.  I realize this article is a few years old.

    I knew nothing about any of this till two days ago.  As I said, if even a tiny bit of this is true, what a sad day for the church.
    As I recall, (may not have the dates precisely) but there was a man in the UK by the name of Greg Taylor who first sounded the alarm about the predator priest in the Resistance in the UK, maybe around 2015. Taylor wanted the priest removed from the Resistance Mass circuit where he had access to kids. I believe people tarred and feathered him and called him a liar, much like what is happening here to Voris, and me (by extension) for discussing it. 

    I believe that priest lived (and still lives) in Bp. Williamson's house and is his caretaker. 

    The priest was mentioned again in April of 2017 in the Swedish docuмentary film about the SSPX abuse coverup. His name is Fr. Stephen Abraham. He was filmed by the crew on the street as he walked into the house. He is mentioned in Michael Voris's initial 45 minute docuмentary from last Wednesday.
    It isn't surprising you never heard the story until 2 days ago, because no Catholic news outlet would report the story in 2017, not even Church Militant, if I remember correctly.

    The other Resistance priest profiled in the film was in France at Bp. Faure's chapel. In the film, Bp. Faure was filmed gave a poor excuse for the priest at a conference that caused controversy, because he mentioned wanting to save the priest's soul, and it looked like he didn't have concern for the victims. I have no idea if that priest (Fr. Phillipe Peignot) is still with the Resistance. Maybe a French Resistance parishioner will chime in.

    That Swedish film is probably still on the internet somewhere.

    Many of the other abuse cases that Voris docuмents are ones I had never heard of, i.e. the offender in Veneta, the St. Mary's ѕυιcιdє, the Palmieri father, etc. I was aware of the Sloniker case in Post Falls.

    But, you're right - what a sad day for the Church. It will be better after the trash is taken out and the coverups are ended.



    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Michael Voris Publishes Article on SSPX Abuse
    « Reply #233 on: April 27, 2020, 05:19:28 PM »
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  • Voris is good at telling people what they want to hear. He seems to be an expert on that.

    Like Rush Limbaugh or Alex Jones, Voris spotted a business opportunity, by filling a vacuum, to become a voice for all frustrated conservative-minded Catholics.  So Voris rants and raves to allow his listeners to experience an emotional release of their frustration.  This kind of thing can actually neutralize opposition to a point, as his listeners experience a kind of catharsis of their frustration by just listening to him, as they rise up out of their easy chairs pumping their fists in agreement, and then slouch back down satisfied and relieved.

    Offline Sam Smith

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    Re: Michael Voris Publishes Article on SSPX Abuse
    « Reply #234 on: April 27, 2020, 05:22:39 PM »
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  •  
    If so, it sounds like the SSPX found these priests guilty....and then they left to go to the Resistance.  What do you think of these priests being in the Resistance which you say you support?  Were you as adamant about that?
    As far as I know, those priests have not been removed from the Resistance. Maybe somebody here knows their current status.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Michael Voris Publishes Article on SSPX Abuse
    « Reply #235 on: April 27, 2020, 05:24:32 PM »
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  • As I recall, (may not have the dates precisely) but there was a man in the UK by the name of Greg Taylor who first sounded the alarm about the predator priest in the Resistance in the UK, maybe around 2015. Taylor wanted the priest removed from the Resistance Mass circuit where he had access to kids. I believe people tarred and feathered him and called him a liar, much like what is happening here to Voris, and me (by extension) for discussing it.

    Again you present a false dilemma, a non-existent binary, of believing everything Voris says and dismissing everything as lies.  No one here says that everything Voris said was without merit.  We're simply sifting through all the crud he layered on top of it all in an attempt to distinguish between factual information that needs to be addressed and dishonest propaganda.  We are also questioning his motives.  Taylor was dealing with a single case, while Voris made a series of allegations, giving the impression that he was slinging excrement against a wall to see how much of it would stick.


    Offline Meg

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    Re: Michael Voris Publishes Article on SSPX Abuse
    « Reply #236 on: April 27, 2020, 05:46:11 PM »
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  • Like Rush Limbaugh or Alex Jones, Voris spotted a business opportunity, by filling a vacuum, to become a voice for all frustrated conservative-minded Catholics.  So Voris rants and raves to allow his listeners to experience an emotional release of their frustration.  This kind of thing can actually neutralize opposition to a point, as his listeners experience a kind of catharsis of their frustration by just listening to him, as they rise up out of their easy chairs pumping their fists in agreement, and then slouch back down satisfied and relieved.

    I was thinking along the same lines. People are so glad that Voris has done his expose on the SSPX (or whatever expose he's doing at the time), that they won't really follow through to see if anything will be done about the situation. As you say, it fills a vacuum, to become a voice for frustrated conservative-minded Catholics. And Voris will just move on to his next expose, and his fans will be happy that he's exposing the rot in the Church. But will this method actually solve problems and get rid of the rot?

    Here on the forum, some of the cases that Voris has described have been thoroughly discussed in the past. There's more of an interest here in trying to get to the bottom of the situation, and there are quite a few different perspectives offered on a given issue, which helps. Voris just wants to do an expose, maybe in order to bring evil to the light of day, then move on. But that's not how the Church works. Real human beings are involved, and as such, situations tend to be complicated. That's why honesty and integrity, with a view to Justice, rather than selling airtime, is important. I don't see that Voris' expose on the SSPX has caused the SSPX to be honest and upfront about the issues. So maybe something is missing in Voris' tactics or handling or the situation.
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline pnw1994

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    Re: Michael Voris Publishes Article on SSPX Abuse
    « Reply #237 on: April 27, 2020, 05:59:09 PM »
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  • Not sure whether this has been mentioned yet in any of the many threads on this topic currently circulating through this forum, but in its most recent communique, the U.S. District wrote:

    "[T]he U.S. District is working through the information it has in order to verify its reliability while also cooperating with the appropriate legal authorities to verify which cases the District can comment on at this time."

    Ongoing legal investigations are generally subject to gag-orders. For Voris (and a number of posters on here) to rail against the SSPX for a perceived lack of response is jumping the gun, in my opinion. Yes, the Society's responses may appear lacklustre but no poster on here has any of the facts: namely that the SSPX is likely not at legal liberty to defend themselves in the court of public opinion just now, or even to admit to the full extent of their wrongdoing, or to ask for forgiveness, etc.

    In my opinion, CM's most recent response 'You Call That A Response?' was in poor taste. CM published the report, they should wait until any ongoing legal investigations are concluded and the Society can respond properly. Until then, they've essentially backed the Society in between a rock and a hard place and are hitting them while they're down. This is surely a sin against charity.

    The SSPX has much to answer for, and they will, in time. Church Militant should drop the subject for now. Do we, an uninformed public audience (or at least armed with very limited, mostly one-sided information) want to play the role of judge, jury, and executioner? 

    God cannot leave a soul to swim
    That has not first abandoned Him.

    Offline Struthio

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    Re: Michael Voris Publishes Article on SSPX Abuse
    « Reply #238 on: April 27, 2020, 07:10:29 PM »
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  • I actually do believe that there has been an active ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ network within the SSPX.  Those who are part of it will in fact cover up for each other.  That is the very nature and purpose of their network.

    What's your problem with Voris, then?

    Is there anyone else doing something impactful to drain that swamp?

    Should the crimes of that network go on until someone more worthy than the fαɢɢօt Voris comes along?

    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Michael Voris Publishes Article on SSPX Abuse
    « Reply #239 on: April 27, 2020, 07:30:34 PM »
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  • As I recall, (may not have the dates precisely) but there was a man in the UK by the name of Greg Taylor who first sounded the alarm about the predator priest in the Resistance in the UK, maybe around 2015. Taylor wanted the priest removed from the Resistance Mass circuit where he had access to kids. I believe people tarred and feathered him and called him a liar, much like what is happening here to Voris, and me (by extension) for discussing it.

    I believe that priest lived (and still lives) in Bp. Williamson's house and is his caretaker.

    The priest was mentioned again in April of 2017 in the Swedish docuмentary film about the SSPX abuse coverup. His name is Fr. Stephen Abraham. He was filmed by the crew on the street as he walked into the house. He is mentioned in Michael Voris's initial 45 minute docuмentary from last Wednesday.
    It isn't surprising you never heard the story until 2 days ago, because no Catholic news outlet would report the story in 2017, not even Church Militant, if I remember correctly.

    The other Resistance priest profiled in the film was in France at Bp. Faure's chapel. In the film, Bp. Faure was filmed gave a poor excuse for the priest at a conference that caused controversy, because he mentioned wanting to save the priest's soul, and it looked like he didn't have concern for the victims. I have no idea if that priest (Fr. Phillipe Peignot) is still with the Resistance. Maybe a French Resistance parishioner will chime in.

    That Swedish film is probably still on the internet somewhere.

    Many of the other abuse cases that Voris docuмents are ones I had never heard of, i.e. the offender in Veneta, the St. Mary's ѕυιcιdє, the Palmieri father, etc. I was aware of the Sloniker case in Post Falls.

    But, you're right - what a sad day for the Church. It will be better after the trash is taken out and the coverups are ended.
    I guess I just don't understand why you weren't as upset back then.  Were you here under another name because I would think you would have been just as outraged then and I don't remember this sort of reaction. 
    There is something about you that's not adding up for me.