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Author Topic: Michael Voris Publishes Article on SSPX Abuse  (Read 34783 times)

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Offline BeatusRusticus

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Re: Michael Voris Publishes Article on SSPX Abuse
« Reply #180 on: April 25, 2020, 06:24:19 PM »
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  • For the record: I do expect this whole thing to get uglier. There may be some good coming out of it (perhaps an unknown predator gets discovered through Jassy?) but there have undoubtedly been cases which we know nothing about, which have been concealed through prudence or charity. I know of at least one case myself that has never been mentioned in the media. (Concealment in itself is not necessarily wrong, from a Catholic point of view: If I live in California do I need to know about the sins of a priest in Maine, so long as it doesn’t affect me or my family?) 

    Who knows, when details of these start to emerge, if the actual truth will paint the SSPX in a good or bad light. But I can certainly say, if Voris is holding the flashlight, he will certainly make it look as negative as possible. And that is a great evil.  

    Offline Sam Smith

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    Re: Michael Voris Publishes Article on SSPX Abuse
    « Reply #181 on: April 25, 2020, 09:09:06 PM »
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  •  (Concealment in itself is not necessarily wrong, from a Catholic point of view: If I live in California do I need to know about the sins of a priest in Maine, so long as it doesn’t affect me or my family?)

    You are mental.


    Offline josefamenendez

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    Re: Michael Voris Publishes Article on SSPX Abuse
    « Reply #182 on: April 25, 2020, 09:40:23 PM »
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  • Besides Michael Voris' ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ past, he still employs one Simon Rafe, who in 2011 was discovered to have been writing bisɛҳuąƖ fantasy porn online. Rafe was apparently moved off camera after the scandal broke, and put in a more "behind the scenes" role at St Michael's Media/ Church Militant. As far as I know Rafe is working there today, doing more on-camera work.
    Why wasn't he fired?
    Michael Voris needs to keep his house very clean while throwing stones.
    I also have a problem with Voris' Bieber-styled blonde highlighted toupe- not becoming to a Catholic man! (Remnants of ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ narcissism- just sayin'.)
    MV's credability can certainly be questioned.

    Offline Meg

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    Re: Michael Voris Publishes Article on SSPX Abuse
    « Reply #183 on: April 26, 2020, 07:33:20 AM »
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  • Who knows, when details of these start to emerge, if the actual truth will paint the SSPX in a good or bad light. But I can certainly say, if Voris is holding the flashlight, he will certainly make it look as negative as possible. And that is a great evil.  

    I agree that's the problem. Voris will paint the SSPX in the worst light possible. He won't be fair and honest. Those who have a narcissistic tendency may feel that they are justified in stretching the truth, if they believe that they have a goal that is morally good. The end will justify whatever means are necessary. ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity is intrinsically disordered, which is why Voris shouldn't be a spokesman for the Catholic Faith (conciliar faith, rather).

    Though the SSPX leadership should, but has not admitted that they have made mistakes regarding the homos amongst their priests and laity. A traditional fraternity of priests and bishops should know, more than anyone, that honesty and sincerity and willingness to clearly admit failures is part of traditional Catholicism. They need to be an example for others to follow. That hasn't happened yet, that I have seen. Supporting the victims is well and good, but it's not enough.
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Michael Voris Publishes Article on SSPX Abuse
    « Reply #184 on: April 26, 2020, 07:44:03 AM »
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  • Besides Michael Voris' ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ past, he still employs one Simon Rafe, who in 2011 was discovered to have been writing bisɛҳuąƖ fantasy porn online. Rafe was apparently moved off camera after the scandal broke, and put in a more "behind the scenes" role at St Michael's Media/ Church Militant. As far as I know Rafe is working there today, doing more on-camera work.
    Why wasn't he fired?
    Michael Voris needs to keep his house very clean while throwing stones.
    I also have a problem with Voris' Bieber-styled blonde highlighted toupe- not becoming to a Catholic man! (Remnants of ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ narcissism- just sayin'.)
    MV's credability can certainly be questioned.

    Oh, yeah, forgot about this.  One might say that Voris is guilty of being "Sympathetic to Perverts" and of protecting one.


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Michael Voris Publishes Article on SSPX Abuse
    « Reply #185 on: April 26, 2020, 07:50:29 AM »
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  • This part of the second statement from the SSPX bothers me. It's just more confirmation that they have a modern corporate mind:

    Yes, and this has been the case since +Fellay started the negotiations with Rome.  This has been clearly docuмented here on CI.  In the hit-piece, Voris asks why the SSPX was so soft on the PA report on predators.  We analyzed this at the time, and the explanation lies primarily in the fact that, at the time, they were pretty close to a deal and didn't want to upset the NO too much by beating on them.  So here's another case where Voris implies motives but there are other possible explanations.  No only were the SSPX soft on the PA report, but they have been equally soft on the various heresies and sacrileges coming out of Rome during the Francis regime.

    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Michael Voris Publishes Article on SSPX Abuse
    « Reply #186 on: April 26, 2020, 08:09:34 AM »
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  • Question: I completely agree that MV/CM is not the one who should be making these allegations, etc.  In your opinions, who would be credible to do this? 

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Michael Voris Publishes Article on SSPX Abuse
    « Reply #187 on: April 26, 2020, 08:19:46 AM »
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  • I think you have those two numbers reversed.

    It's probably more like 90% fact, and 10% crap.

    That is my worry.

    I've already gone through literally half the article and have found nothing of substance.  I will, as I have time to go through it, call out the legitimate points.  There are some, and I will in fact augment it with some details that Voris left out.

    Really the first valid point is how Laudenschlager got ordained.  At first, when his coming on to a fellow seminarian was reported, he was tossed immediately from the SSPX seminary.  My first guess is that this was the work for Fr. Sanborn, who had zero tolerance for anything like that.   So that is COUNTER to the point that the SSPX was covering it up.

    But HOW then did Laudenschlager end up back in there and getting ordained?  That is a troubling question, and one which Voris actually fails to investigate and get answers about.  Yet even this serious question Voris buries in nonsense, asking why +Lefebvre had become so taken with him that he flew all the way to the U.S. to ordain him.  Well, the answer is simple.  +Lefebvre routinely toured the U.S. because he was at the time the only bishop.  He did Confirmation circuits that ended up with him at the seminary to do the ordinations.  Even if Laudenschlager had been the only ordinand to the priesthood, there were undoubtedly also some deacons and subdeacons being ordained.  So +Lefebvre most certainly did not fly to the U.S. just to ordain Laudenschlager.  Here is yet another unsubstantiated insinuation that +Lefebvre favored or protected perverts.

    And this would not be the last time.  Father Carlos Urrutigoity was sent to STAS after having been accused of the same thing Laudenschlager did.  In this case, the priest from La Reja flew to the U.S. just to warn then-Father Williamson of the cloud surrounding Urrutigoity.  At the time, Fr. Williamson dismissed the accusations as not being credible.  Well, how bout now?  +Lefebvre was warned about the situation and told them Urrutigoity had to be watched like a hawk and that should not be allowed any close relationships.  When I was there, Urrutigoity, contrary to this advice, had a cult following of about 7-8 seminarians and actually tried to pull me into his cult.  I really didn't care for him, so stayed away.  I actually complained to the acting-rector when Urrutigoity tried some illicit liturgical experimentations, and he agreed with me and shut it down.  I was a bit naive at the time (in my early 20s) so I didn't really suspect the ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ activity, but in restrospect all the signs were there.  Had I known about the prior accusations against Urrutigoity, I would have seen it even back then.  So I'm perplexed why the seminary leadership who know about these things and were less naive than I was did not pick up on it.

    In any case, after the fallout with the Nine, +Lefebvre sent Fr. Williamson to clean up, and he trusted him completely.  So I imagine that Fr. Williamson persuaded +Lefebvre that the allegations were false.  And Williamson dismissed the allegations because they came from a priest who leaned sedevacantist.  Urrutigoity claimed that the allegation was made by the sedevacantist simply because had been staunchly anti-sedevacantist.  So both +Lefebvre and Williamson made a serious mistake in allowing Urrutigoity to continue.  And Urrutigoity had free reign there and his activities were not curtailed.  This was a serious failing that Voris did not even go into.  See how I'm trying to be objective?  Voris COULD have written a good, serious article about this subject, but his own contempt for the SSPX got the better of him.

    Then was the case of Father Marshall Roberts.  He got kicked out of ICKSP seminary for having written what amounted to a love-letter to a fellow seminarian.  This was widely known at the time, and he STILL got into STAS and was eventually ordained.  He too claimed that his ouster was a conspiracy because he was "too conservative".  I actually called him out for some significant Modernism back in the day, so that undermines his claim.

    So far, however, through half the article, there's ONE serious accusation.  How did Laudenschlager get ordained after having been kicked out of the seminary for propositioning another seminarian?  Voris doesn's actually delve into this first serious allegation.  He could have interviewed Bishop Sanborn or some of the Nine who were running the seminary back then to get some information on the subject.  But he chose not to.  Instead he uses it to smear Archbishop Lefebvre with a completely speculative unsubstantiated allegation.


    Offline Sam Smith

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    Re: Michael Voris Publishes Article on SSPX Abuse
    « Reply #188 on: April 26, 2020, 08:35:54 AM »
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  • But HOW then did Laudenschlager end up back in there and getting ordained?  That is a troubling question

    The same question could be asked regarding Fr. Urrutigoity, which brings Bp. Williamson into the equation.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Michael Voris Publishes Article on SSPX Abuse
    « Reply #189 on: April 26, 2020, 08:42:04 AM »
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  • Here's some more in Voris' later response:

    Quote
    With regard to the SSPX's so-called cooperation with Belgian authorities in the criminal trial of Fr. Abbet, the SSPX fails to mention that Bp. Fellay (as we exposed in our report) personally sent his private secretary, Fr. Raphael Granges (a lawyer), to accompany Abbet to the courthouse daily. Granges dressed in lay clothes in order to escape notice.

    The SSPX also fails to mention that an SSPX tribunal cleared Abbet of guilt years earlier when other sex abuse allegations came to light — allegations brought by distraught parents when they discovered their child had been abused by the priest. The SSPX leadership assured the parents they would handle the matter, asking that they not go public with their allegations — only for the SSPX to set up a tribunal to formally clear Abbet of guilt. It would take a secular court to deliver the justice the SSPX canonical court refused to serve.

    This case is a legitimate point of inquiry in and of itself.  But then it's buried in nonsense.  What does the fact that +Fellay sent a priest-lawyer to court with Fr. Abbet have to do with anything?  And what of the detail that he dressed in lay clothes?  He probably could not have been effective in court had he shown up in clerical garb.

    OK, an SSPX tribunal cleared Abbet.  But why?  We don't know the details of the proceedings.  There could have been any number of reasons he had been cleared that fall short of a conspiracy to cover it up.  Voris seems to be part of the #metoo movement where every allegation is to be immediately considered factually true.  What if, at the time this tribunal was conducted, the evidence was non-existent or weak?

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Michael Voris Publishes Article on SSPX Abuse
    « Reply #190 on: April 26, 2020, 08:54:14 AM »
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  • The same question could be asked regarding Fr. Urrutigoity, which brings Bp. Williamson into the equation.

    Agreed.  These are serious questions that DO need to be addressed.  But the legitimate points are actually buried.  That's why I say Voris did a great disservice by burying it in nonsense.  +Williamson's response has been that, in the heat of the sedevacanist vs. R&R battle that was raging at the time, he was persuaded by Urrutigoity that it had been a politically-motivated accusation.

    +Lefebvre told Fr. Williamson that Urrutigoity needed to be watched "like a hawk".  But when I was there with him, there was no such watching going on.  Fr. Urrutigoity was a veritable cult leader with a group of 7-8 seminarians with whom he formed a tightly-knit circle.  Both my brother Steve (the one on the cancer prayer thread) and I spoke about how we couldn't figure out what the fascination was with that guy.  Well, now we know.  Both Steve and I could go on for a long time.  Steve's run-in with then-Fr. Urrutigoity was the reason he was let go from the seminary.

    There's no doubt that the SSPX BADLY MISHANDLED this case.  None whatsoever.  Now, this was before the whole pederasty scandal blew up years later, and perhaps there was some naivete involved.  We may never know.

    Really, the best thing that the SSPX could do as a defense is to acknowledge and ask forgiveness for the incidents that they mishandled.  "In the case of
    • , we acknowledge that the situation was badly mishandled, and we ask forgiveness from God for it."  So admit the wrongdoing in some of those cases, and that will make your defense of the false allegations to be more credible.



    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Michael Voris Publishes Article on SSPX Abuse
    « Reply #191 on: April 26, 2020, 09:03:24 AM »
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  • I actually do believe that there has been an active ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ network within the SSPX.  Those who are part of it will in fact cover up for each other.  That is the very nature and purpose of their network.

    But Voris is trying to leverage this into an attack on the entire Traditional Catholic movement.

    These ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖs have infiltrated many organizations.  Their existence within the SSPX does nothing to de-legitimize Traditional Catholicism any more than their existence within the Catholic Church in general de-legitimize what the Church stands for.

    Voris is doing the same thing that all the enemies of the Church are doing.  He's taking this and leveraging it into a broader attack.  Many anti-Catholic Prots are whipped up in a fury about the priestly pedophile scandal and use it as ammunition for why the theological claims of the Catholic Church are false.  Pay no attention to the fact that statistics indicate that the incidence of abuse among Prots and even Rabbis is JUST AS HIGH as among Catholic priests, but the media in focusing on attacking the Church.  And, at the same time, the media attack the Church for being anti-gαy.  So the Church MUST allow ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖs into the priesthood, but then is held accountable when these ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖs start raping boys.

    THIS is my problem with Voris.  He's clearly using this as an attack on Traditional Catholicism IN PRINCIPLE.  That is completely dishonest.

    Now, if he wanted to use this as a way to help root out the ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖs from the SSPX, that would be a great service.  But he's having the opposite effect.

    In his interview with Gordon, I could almost detect a glee in Voris' voice and expression regarding the tragic case of Michael Gonzales.  There was almost an undercurrent of, "yes, I got them with this.  This is some ammunition to use against them." ... almost to the point that he comes across as happy that it happened.  It's like he was rubbing his hands together as he spoke of it.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Michael Voris Publishes Article on SSPX Abuse
    « Reply #192 on: April 26, 2020, 09:13:04 AM »
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  • If I had the luxury of being a full-time "journalist", I would put together a fair and balanced article, getting both sides of the each issue before trying to pain any kind of picture.  And I would do it with the intention not of attacking the SSPX per se or Traditional Catholicism in general, but with the intent of exposing and rooting out the ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖs and other predators within the SSPX.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Michael Voris Publishes Article on SSPX Abuse
    « Reply #193 on: April 26, 2020, 09:20:59 AM »
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  • There was the case of Fr. Benedict VanderPutten.  After getting wind of what happened there, the SSPX immediately removed him and reported him to the Vatican, and this was after local authorities had opted not to file charges against him due to lack of evidence.

    So there are contrary cases also that Voris remained silent about.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Michael Voris Publishes Article on SSPX Abuse
    « Reply #194 on: April 26, 2020, 09:30:10 AM »
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  • And Vanderputten is still at large because the SECULAR authorities have not taken action.

    As soon as SSPX got wind of the accusations against him, they summoned him to SSPX headquarters, whereupon he was sent to an island monastery, reported to the Vatican, and then expelled from the SSPX.  Secular authorities in California did not go after him.

    He tried to weasel his way into Scranton, claiming that he had seen the light about the SSPX schism, but the Vatican sent over the report from the SSPX regarding VanderPutten.

    VanderPutten is somewhere in Oklahoma now and is reportedly raising some children, including girls, as a single parent.  You can be darn sure that he's molesting the young girls.  Where are the secular authorities here?  You can be sure he's molesting the girls because when Scranton interviewed him, he justified the behavior and felt there was nothing wrong with it but that he was just trying to "build trust".  He didn't deny what he did but somehow decided it was OK.

    https://adamhorowitzlaw.com/tag/benedict-van-der-putten/

    Maybe Voris could actually do something good by tracking the guy down and pressuring the authorities there to apprehend him and remove those girls from his custody.  But that would not serve his purposes of attacking SSPX, because here the SSPX acted quite appropriately.