Send CathInfo's owner Matthew a gift from his Amazon wish list:
https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

Author Topic: Michael Voris Publishes Article on SSPX Abuse  (Read 34808 times)

0 Members and 3 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Ladislaus

  • Supporter
  • *****
  • Posts: 46556
  • Reputation: +27421/-5066
  • Gender: Male
Re: Michael Voris Publishes Article on SSPX Abuse
« Reply #165 on: April 25, 2020, 04:32:39 PM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!1
  • And just like that...

    Ladislaus and Incredulous went from being Resistance supporters back to being SSPX supporters!

    I'm not really aligned with any group.  I tend to lean sedeprivationist (with my own nuanced position), and my analysis of the Voris/CM piece are made in the interests of truth and justice.  There have been ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ infiltrators in just about every group, from Novus Ordo to R&R to SV; it's a scourge afflicting the entire planet.  And the ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖs (and other abusers) need to be flushed out.  But some innocent priests have also gone down under the weight of false accusations (take Cardinal Pell, for instance).  My first reaction was very negative against Fr. Duverger and Fr. Wegner, but after I had the time to analyze the actual allegations, it just all fell apart, and the nature of this hit-piece became evident.  I still think that Father Wegner botched and mishandled the situation, and should certainly have conducted a formal investigation.  And, even in the case of Fr. Duverger, if others come forward with more substantial evidence than what Jassy had to offer, I'm all ears.

    Offline Sam Smith

    • Newbie
    • *
    • Posts: 133
    • Reputation: +44/-90
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Michael Voris Publishes Article on SSPX Abuse
    « Reply #166 on: April 25, 2020, 04:34:41 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!2
  • THIS^^^.  There's some accurate information in there, but it's buried in a bunch of unsubstantiated allegations and insinuations clearly motivated by a disdain for Traditional Catholicism which they cannot help but scatter throughout the obvious hit-piece.
    Well, that sounds a little like, "I don't believe Voris because he's a meanie!"

    Get over it. He's the only one who took on this fight. Where were you in 2017?


    Offline Ladislaus

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 46556
    • Reputation: +27421/-5066
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Michael Voris Publishes Article on SSPX Abuse
    « Reply #167 on: April 25, 2020, 04:43:08 PM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
  • Everybody already knows Voris's bias. He plainly states the SSPX is in schism. His personal opinion on the canonical status of the SSPX does not change his reporting of the facts.

    Unfortunately, too much of his video wasn't facts, but, rather, layers of crap into which he sprinkled facts ... in service of his bias (a bias which you here admit).

    And it's not at all unlikely that Voris too engaged in various activities that would have put him in handcuffs.  This guy has little humility given his own sordid past.  Bishop Sheen used to say on visits to prisons that "the only difference between you and me is that you got caught."  It's quite possible that the only difference between Voris and those he's attacking is that they got caught and exposed.  It's one thing to expose facts, which should certainly be done, but quite another to present them with such a haughty and cocky attitude.  If I had committed adultery, for instance, and then later caught someone doing the same, I could rebuke him in charity, but it would be the height of hypocrisy to look down my nose at him and call him a scuм for what he did.  I'd be in no position to do so, and Voris is in no position to cop his attitude either.  Unfortunately, he did a great disservice to the objective of rooting out abusers by doing what he did.

    Offline Ladislaus

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 46556
    • Reputation: +27421/-5066
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Michael Voris Publishes Article on SSPX Abuse
    « Reply #168 on: April 25, 2020, 04:48:11 PM »
  • Thanks!2
  • No Thanks!1
  • Well, that sounds a little like, "I don't believe Voris because he's a meanie!"

    Ridiculous.  You're being utterly dishonest, just like Voris was.  I don't believe MUCH of what Voris says because it consists of little more than unsubstantiated allegations and false insinuations.  I believe some of what was in the piece, but much of it was crap.  I evaluate each allegation on its own merits, or lack thereof.  Voris did a great disservice by blending truth with crap.

    And, you may have notiiced, I stated that I believe Jassy.  I don't think she made up what she described.  But it's obvious that she put layers of interpretation on top of what she experienced.  Had she stated, "Fr. Duverger fondled me." ... well, then I would have been inclined to believe her.  But what did she actually report?  ... a big nothingburger.

    Offline confederate catholic

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 823
    • Reputation: +304/-44
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Michael Voris Publishes Article on SSPX Abuse
    « Reply #169 on: April 25, 2020, 05:04:10 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • This part of the second statement from the SSPX bothers me. It's just more confirmation that they have a modern corporate mind:

    At this time the Society was advised by their then legal counsel that they did not have a duty to report the allegations regarding Mr. Sloniker.

    They should at least have told their own priests to keep him away from children
    قامت مريم، ترتيل وفاء جحا و سلام جحا


    Offline BeatusRusticus

    • Newbie
    • *
    • Posts: 35
    • Reputation: +49/-18
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Michael Voris Publishes Article on SSPX Abuse
    « Reply #170 on: April 25, 2020, 05:06:40 PM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
  • Well, that sounds a little like, "I don't believe Voris because he's a meanie!"

    Get over it. He's the only one who took on this fight. Where were you in 2017?
    You would have a point, except... It remains to be seen if there is an actual fight. Or if it’s all just pot-stirring for the sake of pot-stirring.

    So far, nobody anywhere has produced incontrovertible proof that, in 2019/2020 (or even earlier), SSPX leadership knew of priests who were committing crimes, and deliberately moved them around to avoid secular justice, or knowingly allowed them to continue.

    Even in cases where it *seems* clear-cut, there are usually multiple sides to a story. I know folks in France who would swear on a gospel that Fr. Peignot is innocent of the accusations against him. I know folks in America who would say that virtually every word of Voris’ article as it pertains to Fr. Angles, is simply made-up, bald-faced lies by men of bad character.

    It’s a serious thing to accuse a man of a grave sin, still moreso to suggest that he is committing one of the sins that cries out to Heaven for vengeance, or deliberately corrupting youths. These are some of the worst actions a person can commit. And Voris doing the accusing, is so hypocritical that it almost beggars belief.

    Nobody here is eager to give the SSPX a free pass, but so far, the whole thing reflects far more badly on CM, Voris, and his gang, than on the Society. While that could change if CM really does have more information about more priests, for now it looks a lot more like slander and detraction than it does a real exposè.

    Offline Sam Smith

    • Newbie
    • *
    • Posts: 133
    • Reputation: +44/-90
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Michael Voris Publishes Article on SSPX Abuse
    « Reply #171 on: April 25, 2020, 05:12:00 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!1
  • You would have a point, except... It remains to be seen if there is an actual fight. Or if it’s all just pot-stirring for the sake of pot-stirring.

    So far, nobody anywhere has produced incontrovertible proof that, in 2019/2020 (or even earlier), SSPX leadership knew of priests who were committing crimes, and deliberately moved them around to avoid secular justice, or knowingly allowed them to continue.


    I don't think the police or the KBI are in the habit of conducting investigations "for the sake of pot-stirring."

    You can read the emails from the SSPX that show incontrovertible proof that SSPX leadership knew of priests committing crimes. The dates on the emails are 2019-2020.

    Offline Ladislaus

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 46556
    • Reputation: +27421/-5066
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Michael Voris Publishes Article on SSPX Abuse
    « Reply #172 on: April 25, 2020, 05:15:46 PM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
  • You can read the emails from the SSPX that show incontrovertible proof that SSPX leadership knew of priests committing crimes. The dates on the emails are 2019-2020.

    Yes, it is in fact possible that 10% of Voris' claims are rooted in fact.  NOBODY here has said that none of it happens to be true.  That does not make it so that the rest of it, the remaining 90%, isn't crap.


    Offline BeatusRusticus

    • Newbie
    • *
    • Posts: 35
    • Reputation: +49/-18
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Michael Voris Publishes Article on SSPX Abuse
    « Reply #173 on: April 25, 2020, 05:30:41 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • This part of the second statement from the SSPX bothers me. It's just more confirmation that they have a modern corporate mind:

    At this time the Society was advised by their then legal counsel that they did not have a duty to report the allegations regarding Mr. Sloniker.

    They should at least have told their own priests to keep him away from children
    It definitely seems like there was a serious lack of communication. But... I doubt you or I would have been able to do much better, frankly. The SSPX operations in the USA are huge. 100+ chapels, schools, a big seminary, a college, retreat houses, priories, a publishing house... I’m probably omitting some. Every one of these facilities has a whole cadre of lay employees and associates, paid and unpaid, who help keep the whole thing going. And they’re usually desperate for help. Usually when somebody volunteers to help, people say “Sure!” “Oh, you’re a former seminarian, your family is from around x chapel? You seem normal? Great!” They probably didn’t ask themselves “What if he got kicked out of the seminary for being a mentally unstable nut job who tried to mutilate himself, with tendencies to sodomy and pederasty?” After all, the seminary rector is busy. And maybe now lives in another country. Is it really worth checking that reference? He does know how to serve a low mass and benediction really well.... 

    I wonder if the SSPX now has a “blacklist.” 

    Offline Ladislaus

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 46556
    • Reputation: +27421/-5066
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Michael Voris Publishes Article on SSPX Abuse
    « Reply #174 on: April 25, 2020, 05:32:39 PM »
  • Thanks!2
  • No Thanks!0
  • Voris opens the piece by recounting the tragic and heart-breaking story of Michael Gonzalez.

    Yet, what on earth does this have to do with his central thesis that the SSPX is "sympathetic to perverts"?  Answer:  Nothing.  There's no allegation, much less evidence, that anyone else in the SSPX knew anything about what Fr. Angles had done.

    Voris uses this tragic story to emotionally manipulate the audience to be more receptive to what follows.  He's using the same tried-and-true propaganda technique employed most famously by the Jews:  "If you are against the Israeli butchering of Palestinians, that must mean you condone the h0Ɩ0cαųst."  Here, if you don't believe everything Voris says thereafter, it must be because you condone what happened to Michael Gonzalez.  You are a monster if you don't believe everything Voris claims.  This shows a total lack of integrity right out of the gate.

    Voris/Niles spend about 40 paragraphs on the Michael Gonzalez story.

    Towards the end, however, they do raise the specter of cover-up, but the cover-up is also being done by Angles.

    So they transition the tragic Gonzalez story into the mention of "cover-up".  This is how they tie it semantically to the Gonzalez story.  But it was none other than Angles who did the covering up.  Still zero evidence of any systematic coverup by the SSPX for perverts or any "sympathy" for perverts.

    Oh, and speaking of the Jews (from earlier), they then spend about 9 long paragraphs talking about how Angles liked the nαzιs.  Whatever one might say about that, it has nothing to do with sɛҳuąƖ assault.

    Over 50 paragraphs in, still just the one guy, a single bad apple.  No complicity from anyone else in the SSPX.

    I shall continue as I have time.

    Offline BeatusRusticus

    • Newbie
    • *
    • Posts: 35
    • Reputation: +49/-18
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Michael Voris Publishes Article on SSPX Abuse
    « Reply #175 on: April 25, 2020, 05:41:11 PM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
  • I don't think the police or the KBI are in the habit of conducting investigations "for the sake of pot-stirring."

    You can read the emails from the SSPX that show incontrovertible proof that SSPX leadership knew of priests committing crimes. The dates on the emails are 2019-2020.
    Neither CM not the SSPX have released the full text of those emails. Nor do I expect them to. Until they’re available in their entirety we really can’t say what the SSPX knows or doesn’t know. You can selectively quote a docuмent (as Voris & Co. clearly did) to make it seem to say whatever you want. Anyone who has graduated from high school probably has enough life experience to realize this, but it is nevertheless an effective tactic for making someone look bad, to the casual observer. 

    If they quoted the most incriminating portions, as they surely did to prove their point, it tends to largely exonerate the SSPX, because frankly there’s not much there. The SSPX leaders are, of course, strategizing how to respond to Jassy’s media disclosure and the loaded questions from CM, whose reputation is well-known. When you know somebody’s about to throw rotten eggs at you, whether deserved or undeserved, you start examining your poncho collection. 


    Offline Sam Smith

    • Newbie
    • *
    • Posts: 133
    • Reputation: +44/-90
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Michael Voris Publishes Article on SSPX Abuse
    « Reply #176 on: April 25, 2020, 05:44:20 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!2
  • Yes, it is in fact possible that 10% of Voris' claims are rooted in fact.  NOBODY here has said that none of it happens to be true.  That does not make it so that the rest of it, the remaining 90%, isn't crap.
    I think you have those two numbers reversed.

    It's probably more like 90% fact, and 10% crap.

    That is my worry.

    Offline Sam Smith

    • Newbie
    • *
    • Posts: 133
    • Reputation: +44/-90
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Michael Voris Publishes Article on SSPX Abuse
    « Reply #177 on: April 25, 2020, 05:45:38 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!1


  • I wonder if the SSPX now has a “blacklist.”
    The SSPX does have a blacklist....
    ...of parishioners!

    Offline Sam Smith

    • Newbie
    • *
    • Posts: 133
    • Reputation: +44/-90
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Michael Voris Publishes Article on SSPX Abuse
    « Reply #178 on: April 25, 2020, 05:47:50 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!1
  • Voris opens the piece by recounting the tragic and heart-breaking story of Michael Gonzalez.

    Yet, what on earth does this have to do with his central thesis that the SSPX is "sympathetic to perverts"?  Answer:  Nothing.  There's no allegation, much less evidence, that anyone else in the SSPX knew anything about what Fr. Angles had done.

    Did you miss the (long) part where Fr. Rizzo said he, and others, knew all about what Fr. Angles had done?

    I don't think you watched the video very closely at all.

    Offline Incredulous

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 9299
    • Reputation: +9116/-872
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Michael Voris Publishes Article on SSPX Abuse
    « Reply #179 on: April 25, 2020, 06:02:47 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Well, that sounds a little like, "I don't believe Voris because he's a meanie!"

    Get over it. He's the only one who took on this fight. Where were you in 2017?

    No, no, correction:

    "I don't believe Voris cause, he's an HIV, judaizing queer."
    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi