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Author Topic: Michael Voris Publishes Article on SSPX Abuse  (Read 34792 times)

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Offline Struthio

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Re: Michael Voris Publishes Article on SSPX Abuse
« Reply #135 on: April 24, 2020, 10:34:29 PM »
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  • Steven Mosher at OnePeterFive gave a very good commentary on CM yesterday.

    He acknowledges CM's overt bias against SSPX, and their non-criticism policy of the Pope many years ago, prior to changing their tune later.
    He says that they damage their own credibility by their bias, and says it's a shame because they uncover things that need to be addressed and it is very important work.

    Start at around 25:00:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1747&v=1rZS443ntuA&feature=emb_logo

    You mean Steve Skojec, not Steven Mosher.

    Both talk later in the video about "Why China's Dream is the New Threat to World Order" as if they both couldn't see that nowadays virtually all governors in the western world have slit eyes, which doubtlessly are not caused by recent chinese viruses.

    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: Michael Voris Publishes Article on SSPX Abuse
    « Reply #136 on: April 25, 2020, 09:58:52 AM »
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  • Jassy Jacas says that Duverger abused the confessional.

    If true, and he doesn't repent, I'd guess that his punishment will be worse than that of Sodom and Gomorrah.

    Who will be going to confess at an SSPX chapel, after learning that the SSPX does nothing to protect the sacrament?
    Thinking men will still go to confession at the SSPX chapels because they are not irrational hysterics like the demon which possessed you momentarily write the above.


    Offline Incredulous

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    Re: Michael Voris Publishes Article on SSPX Abuse
    « Reply #137 on: April 25, 2020, 10:03:22 AM »
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  • Obviously the activity of Fr. Duverger, if true, is sinful, but apart from that the big issue is that he uses his position as confessor and spiritual director as leverage to persuade his victims to engage in the behavior.  So a penitent could be sucked in to a point until she realizes what's going on and that a line has been crossed, through a certain gradualism.  At first the reaction is confusion.  "Well, that's extremely personal and involves some graphic descriptions, but perhaps it's necessary in order to understand what's going on with my spiritual life."  It starts with stuff that's probably borderline or ambiguous and then slides over a line before the victim is aware of what's happened.

    But that's not the real story here.  People are prone to sin and to falling into sin, even priests.  I'm sure that the devil tempts priests more than average lay people due to the harm he could cause through their fall.

    Let's not lose the real story, the coverup and the reassignment of Fr. Duverger where he had contact with parishioners and children despite having become aware of prior similar allegations.  Fr. Wegner and Vogel both admit that Fr. D has a history, and Vogel admitted it would seem "bizarre" that he's been stationed somewhere he could have close contact with the faithful (and even children) at a school.  Vogel should be fired, and Fr. Wegner sent to a monastery and removed from any position of authority in the SSPX.

    For as credible as this Jassy SEEMS to be, one could perhaps wonder whether she could have fabricated or exaggerated or distorted some things.  Taken alone, it should be with a grain of salt ... although it should be investigated.  But when there are multiple similar accusations, the amount of smoke should be understood as indicating the presence of fire.


    And Father Pagliarani should step down as Superior General.


    He failed the test of leadership.


    Surely a contrarian view, but the priest who showed wisdom and holiness was Father de La Tour.
    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi

    Offline Sam Smith

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    Re: Michael Voris Publishes Article on SSPX Abuse
    « Reply #138 on: April 25, 2020, 10:34:38 AM »
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  • Surely a contrarian view, but the priest who showed wisdom and holiness was Father de La Tour.
    Nonsense.
    How can you say that when Fr. De La Tour participated in the coverup, not only in Jacas's case, but in the second one as well?

    Offline Sam Smith

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    Re: Michael Voris Publishes Article on SSPX Abuse
    « Reply #139 on: April 25, 2020, 10:36:57 AM »
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  • And Father Pagliarani should step down as Superior General.


    He failed the test of leadership.


    I agree with your statement above.


    Offline Incredulous

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    Re: Michael Voris Publishes Article on SSPX Abuse
    « Reply #140 on: April 25, 2020, 11:15:50 AM »
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  • Nonsense.
    How can you say that when Fr. De La Tour participated in the coverup, not only in Jacas's case, but in the second one as well?

    I will try to elaborate later on the methods employed by Voris in developing the girl’s story into porno-erotica.  


    She surely suffered spiritual scandal, but not much happened beyond that.   She encountered a dirty old man, who was a priest in the most arrogant racial subset of the SSPX.


    She wanted to make things right, and Voris’s fillipino news babe showed her the way.


    I think Father de La Tour gave practical advice for her soul.  Give it up, offer it up... it happened over 6 years ago.


    Now, in the eyes of Voris’s master, Opus Judei, she’s a media martyr.


    The whole world can ponder her sɛҳuąƖity and mental strife.
    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi

    Offline Sam Smith

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    Re: Michael Voris Publishes Article on SSPX Abuse
    « Reply #141 on: April 25, 2020, 12:17:06 PM »
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  • I think Father de La Tour gave practical advice for her soul.  Give it up, offer it up... it happened over 6 years ago.


    Now, in the eyes of Voris’s master, Opus Judei, she’s a media martyr.



    Victim shaming is not a good look for you, that's vile.

    She came across as articulate and calm, not a martyr. And she's apparently not the only one.

    Fr. de la Tour better pray he doesn't end up on KBI's indictments list. Voris said in an interview last night that indictments are forthcoming.

    Offline Struthio

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    Re: Michael Voris Publishes Article on SSPX Abuse
    « Reply #142 on: April 25, 2020, 12:23:26 PM »
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  • Thinking men will still go to confession at the SSPX chapels because they are not irrational hysterics like the demon which possessed you momentarily write the above.

    I wouldn't call anyone a "thinking man", who is sending his daughter to confession to a priest of a trad group which covers up abuse of the confessional. Right now they have admitted coverup by stating that they now pretend to move "Toward transparency".


    Why don't you comment on abuse of the confessional and stay with your bikini clad girl chasing comparison?


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Michael Voris Publishes Article on SSPX Abuse
    « Reply #143 on: April 25, 2020, 01:35:09 PM »
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  • There are 5 possible explanations (or a blend of them) for moving accused predators around ...

    1) the movers are themselves predators and are protecting their own (the worst possible scenario)

    2) the movers are more interested in PR than in protecting people from predators (also very bad)

    3) poor communication and incompetence (sin by omission)

    4) perceived "charity" toward the predator

    5) you don't find the allegations credible (and this can be subtly influenced perhaps by #2 above).


    CM and Voris strongly suggest at least #2, with a few hints of #1.

    In the Sloniker case, the SSPX plead #3 and assert that they have made changes to fix this.
    https://www.cathinfo.com/sspx-resistance-news/sspx-issues-second-statement-on-abuse-coverup/

    In the Father Angele case, Father Angele categorically denies the charges (and it's his word against that of Kyle White).

    In the Father Desautard case, they claim that they did notify the civil authorities, who decided not to press charges, and the main victim/accuser had no interest in pressing charges.

    Even from a PR perspective, I find it hard to believe that the SSPX would not be aware that shuffling accused predators would result in a much greater PR blowback than if they were outed.

    I'm sure that as more digging goes on, the CM/Voris hit piece will start coming apart bit by bit.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Michael Voris Publishes Article on SSPX Abuse
    « Reply #144 on: April 25, 2020, 01:37:26 PM »
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  • Victim shaming is not a good look for you, that's vile.

    She came across as articulate and calm, not a martyr. And she's apparently not the only one.

    Fr. de la Tour better pray he doesn't end up on KBI's indictments list. Voris said in an interview last night that indictments are forthcoming.

    Not at all articulate, and her story was full of holes.  When I have time, I'll take it apart.  Really the most disturbing claim comes to her second-hand from a different accuser, whose credibility was evidently brought into question by her own family.

    Offline Sam Smith

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    Re: Michael Voris Publishes Article on SSPX Abuse
    « Reply #145 on: April 25, 2020, 01:43:41 PM »
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  • There are 5 possible explanations (or a blend of them) for moving accused predators around ...



    I'm sure that as more digging goes on, the CM/Voris hit piece will start coming apart bit by bit.
    All five explanations apply to different people at different levels of this story.

    The CM story is not coming apart at all, and in fact, it is going to get much worse. They said there is more coming on Monday.

    And if you read the second statement issued by the SSPX in the dark of night last night, you can plainly see they are running scared.

    Ladislaus - it's strange that you freely criticize the SSPX when it comes to the deal with Rome, but then you defend them on covering up predator priests. What gives?


    Offline Sam Smith

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    Re: Michael Voris Publishes Article on SSPX Abuse
    « Reply #146 on: April 25, 2020, 01:44:55 PM »
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  • Not at all articulate, and her story was full of holes.  When I have time, I'll take it apart.  Really the most disturbing claim comes to her second-hand from a different accuser, whose credibility was evidently brought into question by her own family.
    You might want to take the time to read the comment sections. 
    She has broad support and is basically being hailed as a hero.

    Offline Sam Smith

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    Re: Michael Voris Publishes Article on SSPX Abuse
    « Reply #147 on: April 25, 2020, 01:48:02 PM »
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  • Voris and Niles were interviewed last night on Tim Gordon show,
    Says indictments are forthcoming by the KBI.
    Voris also warns James Vogel he is to be thrown under the bus by the SSPX leadership when they close ranks and that he better start looking for a new job.




    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Michael Voris Publishes Article on SSPX Abuse
    « Reply #148 on: April 25, 2020, 01:59:01 PM »
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  • From the allegations reported first hand by Jassy ...

    It starts off in the Confessional.  She starts talking about her past abuse, but Father Duverger cuts her off and tells her to seek him out for spiritual direction.  It is common for priests to deflect things that are not direct matter for the confessional to a different forum (i.e. to spiritual direction).  Priests don't have time to do counseling sessions involving a person's entire life story in the Confessional unless it involves sins that she committed.

    Father Duverger asks a lot of detail, including graphic detail, about the abuse.  We don't know his motivation.  According to Jassy, he repeatedly stated that he "know how to help" her.  Perhaps he fancied himself as being a talented psychologist who could help her through it.  At WORST here, you have some inordinate, perhaps impure, curiosity about details that were not relevant to getting her the help she required.  Yet he may also have had some reasonable explanation for why he felt it may have been relevant from the perspective of his proposed counseling or the psychological help he felt confident he could provide.

    Where is the sɛҳuąƖ assault?  Where is, even, the grooming?  Jassy reports that sometimes a month or two passed between their "sessions", that one one occasion he hadn't even bothered to read the e-mails she had sent him for quite some time.  One would think he'd be more persistent if he had targeted her for grooming.  WHAT did Fr. Duverger do that could be construed as grooming or, much less, assualt?  When Jassy discussed this with some priests, they referred to it as an "imprudence", and she claimed that it was code-word for sɛҳuąƖ assault.  But what was this besides "imprudence"?  Where was the actual assault, Jassy?  Did he touch you at any time?  Did he make comments suggestive of coming on to your or even grooming you for later contact?  There was NOTHING in what she suggests to indicate this.  The single most salacious detail wasn't about her own case, but was reported to her second-hand by the other accuser, whose own family called her credibility into question.  So Jassy goes on a crusade.  She asserts that Fr. Duverger would be a threat to children.  And the SSPX priest rightly responds, based on what?  Typically men who are into women (Jassy was 22 when this first started) tend not to be interested in children.  Jassy repeatedly asserts that he was a threat to children based on absolutely NOTHING.  She claims that abuse victims have it in common with children that they are vulnerable.  That's all you have, Jassy, to smear Fr. Duverger as a threat to children?

    Then toward the end of the interview, she claims that she would have been satisfied had the SSPX conducted an investigation and concluded that there was no threat from Father Duverger.  Really?  You're that convinced that you were victimized, groomed, assaulted, and whatnot ... and you would just accept that conclusion?

    Jassy's allegations amount to nothing by themselves.  It's possible also that, having been a victim prior, she had a tendency to construe things as threatening in that way when they were intended differently.  I see no evidence of any wrongdoing by Fr. Duverger, except perhaps, worst case, an excessive, POSSIBLY impure, curiosity regarding the details of her past abuse.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Michael Voris Publishes Article on SSPX Abuse
    « Reply #149 on: April 25, 2020, 02:02:05 PM »
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  • You might want to take the time to read the comment sections.
    She has broad support and is basically being hailed as a hero.

    And the support is irrational, emotional, and idiotic.  She gave absolutely ZERO evidence of assault, inappropriate touching, advances, or grooming of any kind.  I'm sure she's not being malicious, because she could have spiced it up (i.e. made up some other details), but there was NOTHING in what she ACTUALLY SAID that could be construed as grounds for any criminal accusation against Fr. Duverger.