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Author Topic: Michael Voris Publishes Article on SSPX Abuse  (Read 34794 times)

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Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Michael Voris Publishes Article on SSPX Abuse
« Reply #105 on: April 24, 2020, 06:56:01 PM »
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  • The main accusation against him is cowardice, to prefer obedience over truth and justice:

    False.  Did you even bother to watch the video?  The kept using the expression that Father Ken Novak had "seduced" a number of women, visited them at "all hours of the night," etc.  They were clearly using the term seduced with a double meaning, firstly to entice them to leave their husbands and move to St. Mary's but second with the strong implication that he was sɛҳuąƖly involved with them.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Michael Voris Publishes Article on SSPX Abuse
    « Reply #106 on: April 24, 2020, 07:01:36 PM »
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  • I don't believe that Voris/Niles are stupid. They surely are able to prove that they indeed were told what they say they were told.

    Sometimes malice can get the better of one's judgement.  They made insinuations against both Father Ken Novak and even Archbishop Lefebvre that were clearly unprovable and entailed speculation on motives.

    Voris had better be careful in casting stones against "perverts" and alleged perverts, given that the fact that he too was a pervert and undoubtedly still has perverted inclinations.  As Father Ken Novak was quoted as putting it in the video, "people like that don't change".  Just watch Voris himself have a fall due to his hypocritical arrogance.  We don't know the full extent of Voris' own past perversities, whether children were involved, etc.

    This video was clearly malicious on the part of both Voris and Niles ... total journalistic garbage.  Their contempt for the Catholic Traditional movement oozed throughout the presentation.


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Michael Voris Publishes Article on SSPX Abuse
    « Reply #107 on: April 24, 2020, 07:04:57 PM »
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  • This young lady comes across as very articulate, calm and credible.

    Calm and credible, yes, but articulate she is not.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Michael Voris Publishes Article on SSPX Abuse
    « Reply #108 on: April 24, 2020, 07:16:30 PM »
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  • Obviously the activity of Fr. Duverger, if true, is sinful, but apart from that the big issue is that he uses his position as confessor and spiritual director as leverage to persuade his victims to engage in the behavior.  So a penitent could be sucked in to a point until she realizes what's going on and that a line has been crossed, through a certain gradualism.  At first the reaction is confusion.  "Well, that's extremely personal and involves some graphic descriptions, but perhaps it's necessary in order to understand what's going on with my spiritual life."  It starts with stuff that's probably borderline or ambiguous and then slides over a line before the victim is aware of what's happened.

    But that's not the real story here.  People are prone to sin and to falling into sin, even priests.  I'm sure that the devil tempts priests more than average lay people due to the harm he could cause through their fall.

    Let's not lose the real story, the coverup and the reassignment of Fr. Duverger where he had contact with parishioners and children despite having become aware of prior similar allegations.  Fr. Wegner and Vogel both admit that Fr. D has a history, and Vogel admitted it would seem "bizarre" that he's been stationed somewhere he could have close contact with the faithful (and even children) at a school.  Vogel should be fired, and Fr. Wegner sent to a monastery and removed from any position of authority in the SSPX.

    For as credible as this Jassy SEEMS to be, one could perhaps wonder whether she could have fabricated or exaggerated or distorted some things.  Taken alone, it should be with a grain of salt ... although it should be investigated.  But when there are multiple similar accusations, the amount of smoke should be understood as indicating the presence of fire.

    Offline Struthio

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    Re: Michael Voris Publishes Article on SSPX Abuse
    « Reply #109 on: April 24, 2020, 07:17:03 PM »
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  • False.  Did you even bother to watch the video?  

    I read the transcript. And I quoted what I think is the main accusation, which (if true) is cowardice, to prefer obedience over truth and justice for multiple victims of pedophilia.


    Offline Struthio

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    Re: Michael Voris Publishes Article on SSPX Abuse
    « Reply #110 on: April 24, 2020, 07:21:28 PM »
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  • Sometimes malice can get the better of one's judgement.

    True! Sure!

    Naiveté can get the better of one's judgement, too. Never underestimate your enemies!

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Michael Voris Publishes Article on SSPX Abuse
    « Reply #111 on: April 24, 2020, 07:24:43 PM »
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  • I read the transcript. And I quoted what I think is the main accusation, which (if true) is cowardice, to prefer obedience over truth and justice.


    Well, I'm clearly referring to repeated accusation that he had "seduced" (their term) married women.  It's not necessarily cowardice in any case.  He clearly intended to advise the person to report it (contrary to advice he had received) but was conflicted in terms of how his contradiction of superiors meshed with the requirement of obedience.  What was Father Novak to do, go to the police and say that some guy told him that this other guy had done something?  That means nothing anyway.  He was saying that the person closest to him SHOULD report it to the police.  And in terms of the SSPX front, what was he supposed to do when his superior was against it?  He had no authority to do anything about the guy.

    It's easy to sit in some armchair and make these snap judgments, of "cowardice", and whatnot, just like this entire hit piece does without giving the full picture.  Without other sides to the story, it's VERY easy to pick out one small piece of information and make implications out of context.  It's no different that Prots deriving heretical theories from Scripture passages taken out of context.  Of the picture of the blind me all describing an elephant as a completely different animal.

    Several on this thread have fallen prey to the dishonesty and propaganda of this hit piece.  It does not give a balanced, objective account but has an agenda and an ax to grind against Traditional Catholicism.

    Offline Struthio

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    Re: Michael Voris Publishes Article on SSPX Abuse
    « Reply #112 on: April 24, 2020, 07:25:11 PM »
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  • Voris had better be careful in casting stones against "perverts" and alleged perverts, given that the fact that he too was a pervert and undoubtedly still has perverted inclinations.

    He's a fαɢɢօt and a follower of a false religion. But that doesn't mean he is not clever and successful in pursuing his mission.


    Offline Struthio

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    Re: Michael Voris Publishes Article on SSPX Abuse
    « Reply #113 on: April 24, 2020, 07:26:00 PM »
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  • Well, I'm clearly referring to repeated accusation that he had "seduced" (their term) married women.

    You were quoting and commenting a post of mine!

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Michael Voris Publishes Article on SSPX Abuse
    « Reply #114 on: April 24, 2020, 07:32:31 PM »
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  • True! Sure!

    Naiveté can get the better of one's judgement, too. Never underestimate your enemies!

    I just clearly sensed that their vitriol against the SSPX and Traditional Catholicism in general were over-the-top evident throughout most of the video, starting with their snide comments about Traditional Catholics thinking that they're better than everyone else.

    Offline Struthio

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    Re: Michael Voris Publishes Article on SSPX Abuse
    « Reply #115 on: April 24, 2020, 07:33:20 PM »
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  • It's easy to sit in some armchair and make these snap judgments, of "cowardice", and whatnot

    I didn't make any judgement there. I just said what the main accusation is:


    Quote from: Christine Niles
    Kyle White: "Father Novak said that he was not supposed to be talking to me. He agreed that Peter Palmeri needed to be turned in because how pedophiles work, they don't stop, and he was told not to speak with me."


    If that's true, then Novak covered several years of child abuse out of cowardice, out of fear of his superiors.


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Michael Voris Publishes Article on SSPX Abuse
    « Reply #116 on: April 24, 2020, 07:35:50 PM »
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  • You were quoting and commenting a post of mine!

    Right, I was responding to your assertion that the major accusation against Fr. Novak was cowardice.  That is not correct.  There were allegations that he deliberately broke up families with the insinuation that it was to seduce the wives.  Again, there's zero context here.  Was the husband abusing his wife and children, committing serial adultery, etc. ... without ANY context for WHY in a given situation Fr. might have LEGITIMATELY advised a wife to separate (and legally divorce) from her husband, instead implying that it was so he could get under the sheets with the wife.  This video was utter garbage.

    I do not dispute that some of the information appeared credible and legitimate and needs to be looked into, but a lot of it was pure trash, right down to the implication that +Lefebvre too participated in the protection of pederasts.  Unfortunately, this clear bias makes me think that most of it needs to be taken with a huge grain of salt, that we have to sift through fact and fiction ... and this actually undermines any good the revelations might do.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Michael Voris Publishes Article on SSPX Abuse
    « Reply #117 on: April 24, 2020, 07:38:48 PM »
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  • I didn't make any judgement there. I just said what the main accusation is:

    And I was disagreeing with your assertion that it was the main allegation.  It clearly was not.

    Offline Struthio

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    Re: Michael Voris Publishes Article on SSPX Abuse
    « Reply #118 on: April 24, 2020, 07:42:22 PM »
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  • Right, I was responding to your assertion that the major accusation against Fr. Novak was cowardice.  That is not correct.

    I (still) think the major accusation is covering ongoing pedophilia for several years, committed by a pedophile who then was convicted for his crimes. Covering it out of cowardice.

    Offline apollo

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    Re: Michael Voris Publishes Article on SSPX Abuse
    « Reply #119 on: April 24, 2020, 07:56:51 PM »
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  • Hey guys, I just talked to two women who live in Saint Marys, today.
    They were living here when Michael Gonzalez was shot by gang members,
    who belonged to the gang that he was in.  They were doing drugs.
    They showed up at Michael's house and he got in a car with them and
    they drove to Topeka and shot him. 
    .
    His wife had left him.  His sister was about waist high (perhaps 9 years old)
    at that time.
    .
    Last but not least, Fr. Ramon Angles was NOT even here at that time, but
    became the rector here later. 
    .
    Ya-all want the truth and revenge and justice.  Maybe you should get the
    facts first.  If what I heard today is  true, then maybe you should consider
    suing Michael Voris for libel and several other things.
    .
    Better be careful, who you make assumptions about.  Things can look
    credible when you only have one side of the story.  And considering the
    known LIAR that Michael Voris is, don't bet much money on his story.