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Author Topic: Michael Voris Publishes Article on SSPX Abuse  (Read 34782 times)

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Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Michael Voris Publishes Article on SSPX Abuse
« Reply #90 on: April 24, 2020, 02:46:59 PM »
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  • Fr Novak and Fr Cooper seem unjustly involved and for that Voris should take responsibility, reaching too far in his zeal to accuse.
    He only has hearsay on them.

    Both Fathers Novak, Ken and Lawrence.  Also, Archbishop Lefebvre himself.  They implied that +Lefebvre was so taken with Laudenschlager that he flew all the way to the U.S. just to ordain him.  There's a subtle implied nasty allegation that +Lefebvre also favored the pederasts.  This was a shameless smear job, and one almost gets the impression that they RELISH the fact that they had this material with which to attack Tradition.  They could have done some good had they just remained objective and stuck with factual information that had been substantiated.  In refusing to do so, they undermine the actual good they could have done, but I walk away with the distinct impression that this was not about doing good for them.

    Offline Struthio

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    Re: Michael Voris Publishes Article on SSPX Abuse
    « Reply #91 on: April 24, 2020, 02:55:58 PM »
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  • I hope that Father Ken Novak sues CM and Voris out of existence.

    I was actually a close friend of the Novak family.  I went to Loyola Chicago and met the Novak family at the SSPX mission there, for which they were the coordinators; at the time they were at a hotel and had no church.  So they took me in like one of their own as a young college student, and even came to visit up at Winona when I received tonsure.  I led the Rosary on Sundays at their mission.  Dr. Novak (Father Ken's dad) was my confirmation sponsor when I received conditional Confirmation.  As a seminarian, I regularly stayed at their home.  When Fr. Ken Novak was ordained, I gave him a small (compact) Latin Tridentine Missal that he had noticed and remarked about as a gift.  Father Ken Novak is a good man, and so is his brother Lawrence.  I've never found any HINT of impropriety from any of the Novaks.

    The main accusation against him is cowardice, to prefer obedience over truth and justice:

    Quote from: Church Militant
    Kyle White: "Father Novak said that he was not supposed to be talking to me. He agreed that Peter Palmeri needed to be turned in because how pedophiles work, they don't stop, and he was told not to speak with me."

    I don't believe that Voris/Niles are stupid. They surely are able to prove that they indeed were told what they say they were told.

    If Novak sues Voris/Niles/White, it will be word against word.


    Looks to me like things look bad for Novak, whether he is guilty of the accusations or not.


    Offline Struthio

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    Re: Michael Voris Publishes Article on SSPX Abuse
    « Reply #92 on: April 24, 2020, 02:58:33 PM »
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  • Kyle should have been the one to report the crime, he is the negligent one as he had the closest relationship to the victim.


    Christine Niles says Kyle did report the crime:

    Quote from: Church Militant
    After all three SSPX clergy refused to offer assistance, Kyle took his report to the SSPX-friendly police anyway, who failed to launch an investigation, claiming the matter was hearsay.

    Offline Sam Smith

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    Re: Michael Voris Publishes Article on SSPX Abuse
    « Reply #93 on: April 24, 2020, 03:04:38 PM »
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  • There are some valid points on both sides, and the good points made by CM and Voris are actually undermined by the layers of spin, insinuations (without evidence), and downright slander.  They actually undermine their credibility by having the true factual information submerged in layers of nonsense.  This was a hit piece where Voris and the presenter could not hide their disdain for Tradition, constantly making snide remarks about how Traditional Catholics think they're better than the Novus Ordo, that it's just about the Liturgy, etc.
    I agree. It would have been a stronger piece if he had left out Fr. Novak, which seems to be mere innuendo.
    The disdain for Tradition has always been present with CM, but it is somewhat like saying the Boston Globe reporters did the wrong thing by outing the predator priests in the Novus Ordo, just because they weren't Catholics. I'm sure the Boston Globe reporters hated the Church, especially after what horrible rot they unearthed, but it was still an important work that they did.

    It cannot be that the only thing that matters to Catholics is human respect. It cannot be that the only thing that matters is the 'reputation' of the SSPX, or the Resistance, or the Church as a whole.

    It MUST be that the TRUTH is what matters above all.

    God will not allow these secrets to remain hidden. Not in the SSPX, not in the Resistance, not in the Novus Ordo, not in Hollywood, and not in Washington, DC. It must ALL come out. That is what the end of time is all about.

    Offline Mr G

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    Re: Michael Voris Publishes Article on SSPX Abuse
    « Reply #94 on: April 24, 2020, 03:06:15 PM »
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  • Christine Niles says Kyle did report the crime:
    In that case, there does not seem to be any legal issue. Kyle asked for Father's advice, Father told him to report the crime, Kyle took the advice and reported the crime.


    Offline Tradman

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    Re: Michael Voris Publishes Article on SSPX Abuse
    « Reply #95 on: April 24, 2020, 03:08:36 PM »
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  • Both Fathers Novak, Ken and Lawrence.  Also, Archbishop Lefebvre himself.  They implied that +Lefebvre was so taken with Laudenschlager that he flew all the way to the U.S. just to ordain him.  There's a subtle implied nasty allegation that +Lefebvre also favored the pederasts.  This was a shameless smear job, and one almost gets the impression that they RELISH the fact that they had this material with which to attack Tradition.  They could have done some good had they just remained objective and stuck with factual information that had been substantiated.  In refusing to do so, they undermine the actual good they could have done, but I walk away with the distinct impression that this was not about doing good for them.
    The Archbishop's record speaks for itself.  Try as they might, false trials against Lefebvre resemble those of Christ's.  Voris has reached way beyond what he should to make his point, going into hearsay and calumny about good priests. That is a fact.  But that doesn't mean everything Voris reveals is a smear job.  The garbage reporting doesn't change a single truth against those priests who have brought shame upon the SSPX.  There is still a serious story here and it obviously brings a lot of problems to priests in the SSPX.  That Voris couldn't keep it all clean is an outrage, but for now, not the point.  We laity have to keep our heads about ourselves.  There will always be something about the delivery of truth that undermines it.  Not because truth is a problem but because people are. The laity have demand a cleanup of the infiltrators because the good SSPX priests bringing the true Mass to people are worth maintaining.  

    Offline Mr G

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    Re: Michael Voris Publishes Article on SSPX Abuse
    « Reply #96 on: April 24, 2020, 03:11:03 PM »
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  • Various related headlines at Canon212:http://canon212.com/

    Offline Tradman

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    Re: Michael Voris Publishes Article on SSPX Abuse
    « Reply #97 on: April 24, 2020, 03:14:52 PM »
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  • Again, this interview with the whistleblowing victim is pretty revealing. 

    https://www.churchmilitant.com/news/article/exclusive-interview-jassy-jacas

    My apologies to the SSPX priests trying under great duress to bring the sacraments to the people.  Some of us laity won't tolerate subterfuge from bad priests who spoil your good names. God bless the SSPX and all those who try to maintain Catholic Tradition. 

      


    Offline BeatusRusticus

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    Re: Michael Voris Publishes Article on SSPX Abuse
    « Reply #98 on: April 24, 2020, 03:28:58 PM »
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  • Fr Novak and Fr Cooper seem unjustly involved and for that Voris should take responsibility, reaching too far in his zeal to accuse.
    He only has hearsay on them.  As for the rest,
    there is clearly a problem.  This interview with the victim is earth shattering.

    https://www.churchmilitant.com/news/article/exclusive-interview-jassy-jacas
    I wouldn’t go so far as to say “earth shattering.”

    It sounds like Jassy’s therapist connected her with another girl who may-or-may-not be credible (we aren’t a court of law and at this point much of this is hearsay) who, if HER allegations are correct, was definitely subject to some impure advances (of a sort) on the part of Fr. Duverger. Not criminal in a secular sense mind you, but, speaking as a Catholic, totally inappropriate for a priest, and certainly mortally sinful. 

    So, assuming the worst of the priest, that both victims are 100% correct, we have a case of a cleric having immoral and impure conversations with those he is providing spiritual direction to. She reaches out to several priests at one time or another, and nothing they say is terribly bad, wrong, or shocking. They all appear, according to her, to take the situation seriously and want to make things right. But some flip-flopping happens as to what’s been done and by whom. She threatens to “go public” and at that point, she is called by the prior in Florida, who endeavors (it sounds like, badly) to convince her that this isn’t the best solution. Which is probably true -in the sense that, making of this a big scandal is going to hurt the SSPX, drive away souls, and, as the priests certainly perceive, a horny priest who asks too many sɛҳuąƖ questions to adult women is a far lesser matter than a ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ pederast. (Jassy seems to miss this point and speaks of the two as equal).

    The biggest revelation of the interview is that, surprise surprise, the SSPX is run more as a medieval religious order and not as a modern corporation, with policy manuals and an HR department. You tell a priest, he passes information on as he sees fit, and things may get overlooked or misconstrued. $10 says that an “investigation” really happened -calling a priest or two and saying “hey, has Fr. Duverger been sneaking out of the priory or using the Internet much in his own room with the door locked.” But if there’s no paper trail.... We also have to remember that these events are years old. The year is 2020, Jassy says her incidents took place in 2013. A man can make great strides in the spiritual life in a few years. So while it doesn’t make things “right” (and when a priest is sodomizing altar boys it’s far better to take a zero tolerance approach) this situation isn’t as clear-cut as some would paint it.


    I don’t exonerate the SSPX of guilt entirely here, but I do think it’s a case of much ado about ...fairly little in the grand scheme of things.

    Offline Sam Smith

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    Re: Michael Voris Publishes Article on SSPX Abuse
    « Reply #99 on: April 24, 2020, 04:42:08 PM »
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  • This young lady comes across as very articulate, calm and credible.

    The things she has to say about her interactions with the leadership of the SSPX, especially Fr. Wegner, are completely catastrophic for the SSPX.

    "Are you scared to talk to me? Most people are scared to talk to me." How menacing.
    Then he tells her she will not "get in trouble" for reporting the abuse of Fr. Duverger, who it is clear they all were already aware was a major problem.
    Why would a 22 year old woman get in trouble for reporting abuse?
    Fr. Wegner sounds truly evil.
    They warned her that she would be "shutting down schools" by coming forward.
    It's also interesting that she told Fr. Wegner, when he told her he did not have the power to remove Fr. Duverger, that "this isn't about me, this is about protecting others."



    Offline Sam Smith

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    Re: Michael Voris Publishes Article on SSPX Abuse
    « Reply #100 on: April 24, 2020, 04:54:09 PM »
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  • I wouldn’t go so far as to say “earth shattering.”

    I don’t exonerate the SSPX of guilt entirely here, but I do think it’s a case of much ado about ...fairly little in the grand scheme of things.
    Sure.

    A priest asking a woman to write all the details of her childhood sɛҳuąƖ abuse into an email to him sounds entirely normal.

    A priest teaching a woman how to masturbate via Facetime in order to "prepare her for marriage" sounds like "fairly little in the grand scheme of things."

    Ok.


    Offline Struthio

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    Re: Michael Voris Publishes Article on SSPX Abuse
    « Reply #101 on: April 24, 2020, 04:59:37 PM »
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  • Quote from: Struthio
    Christine Niles says Kyle did report the crime

    In that case, there does not seem to be any legal issue. Kyle asked for Father's advice, Father told him to report the crime, Kyle took the advice and reported the crime.

    Novak left the 19 year old Kyle alone and didn't care when nothing happened, and the felon could continue for years.

    Whether legal issue or not, Novak is an enemy of the faithful and of truth and justice.

    (Given that Kyle's testimony is true.)

    Offline Tradman

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    Re: Michael Voris Publishes Article on SSPX Abuse
    « Reply #102 on: April 24, 2020, 05:02:01 PM »
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  • Sure.

    A priest asking a woman to write all the details of her childhood sɛҳuąƖ abuse into an email to him sounds entirely normal.

    A priest teaching a woman how to masturbate via Facetime in order to "prepare her for marriage" sounds like "fairly little in the grand scheme of things."

    Ok.
    Sick

    Offline Tradman

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    Re: Michael Voris Publishes Article on SSPX Abuse
    « Reply #103 on: April 24, 2020, 05:02:50 PM »
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  • In that case, there does not seem to be any legal issue. Kyle asked for Father's advice, Father told him to report the crime, Kyle took the advice and reported the crime.


    Novak left the 19 year old Kyle alone and didn't care when nothing happened, and the felon could continue for years.

    Whether legal issue or not, Novak is an enemy of the faithful and of truth and justice.

    (Given that Kyle's testimony is true.)
    Hearsay

    Offline BeatusRusticus

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    Re: Michael Voris Publishes Article on SSPX Abuse
    « Reply #104 on: April 24, 2020, 05:53:26 PM »
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  • Sure.

    A priest asking a woman to write all the details of her childhood sɛҳuąƖ abuse into an email to him sounds entirely normal.

    A priest teaching a woman how to masturbate via Facetime in order to "prepare her for marriage" sounds like "fairly little in the grand scheme of things."

    Ok.
    You deliberately ignore the parts of my post where I clearly state that the priest’s conduct, if true, is scandalous and mortally sinful.

    That said, I’m sorry, but if she’s over the state’s age of consent when these conversations take place, then as far as the law is concerned, it’s two consenting adults getting their jollies over the Internet, regardless of whether she is a nun, he is a priest, or the two of them are the lawfully married duke and duchess of Devonshire. And the law looks leniently on these things because regardless of the fact that they’re objectively wrong and mortally sinful, they’re also very common, because most human beings have sɛҳuąƖ desires. I work for a company with several dozen employees, and as a senior manager I can tell you stories for days about who has slept with whom. It doesn’t make it right, but people do stuff like this. Especially worldly people. And priests are human and not above temptation. So while we’d like to think that every priest is a paragon of virtue and always keeps his mind on God and his knickers belted up, that’s not always going to be the case.

    So the question then becomes:  as a superior you discover your junior has been engaging in this kind of conduct with parishioners. Not sodomy with prepubescent youths, mind you, but sins against the 6th and 9th with lady parishioners. A few reports have come to you. Your goal is going to be to keep it quiet, because if people know, your hands are tied. Your goal is also going to be to take steps to keep it from continuing, if you are sensible and responsible. Finally, your goal is presumably going to be some kind of punishment or corrective measures to bring the errant sheep in line. Public expulsion or public humiliation is seldom going to serve these goals. And a priest by the nature of his vocation usually works with people. So you can place him under restrictions but the nature of those might not be so obvious. It would perhaps be instructive to find out just how often Fr. D. has been in the confessional in Florida.

    Where do you draw the line between “a mistake” and something that renders a man totally unfit to be a priest? Father Duverger (whom I don’t personally know) and Fr. Vernoy, and Fr. Wegner, need our prayers badly.