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Author Topic: Michael Voris Publishes Article on SSPX Abuse  (Read 34803 times)

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Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Michael Voris Publishes Article on SSPX Abuse
« Reply #60 on: April 23, 2020, 03:18:32 PM »
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  • I just now had the time to watch the entire thing.

    There was some disturbing information in there for which some of the SSPX leadership should be held accountable, but these were, unfortunately, blurred together with a number of gravely-sinful smear jobs.

    1) implication that Father Kenneth Novak had sɛҳuąƖ relations with these women he "seduced" and would call upon at "all hours of the night".  Father Novak agreed that the one guy should be reported ... in disagreement with his superiors.  Unless they have some evidence, this is a grave slander, and Father Novak should sue them.

    2) smear job of Fr. Lawrence Novak.  He simply gave a character reference for a guy who would be later convicted of abuse, without any proof that he knew about any of it at the time he wrote the letter.

    3) the allegation that Archbishop Lefebvre was so taken with Laudenschlager that he visited the U.S. to ordain him personally.  This was before he had helper bishops and he regularly visited the U.S. to do a confirmation + ordination circuit ... even if Laudenschlager happened to be the only priestly ordinand that year.  Undoubtedly there were also some deacons and subdeacons ordained.  So that too was a smear job.

    Plus the hit piece assumes that absolutely every allegation against the named priests was factually true.  There are many examples of false abuse allegations that have destroyed good priests and bishops.  Nevertheless, it's true that the SSPX should have absolutely dealt forcefully with any credible allegations of misconduct and at the very least removed the accused from access to parishioners, especially children, while the matter would be investigated.

    Not to condone the ACTUAL assaults and coverups, this video/article was a total hit piece.

    Now, Fr. Wegner needs to be deposed of any rank in the SSPX and sent to a monastery.  Vogel should be fired.  They both admit that they were aware of a long history of similar allegations against Fr. Duverger and were more interested in the PR angle than the actual fact.  So it wasn't a matter of an isolated allegation that may have been fabricated.  And the fact that both Fr. Wegner and Vogel knew about the long past of Fr. Duverger came out in that e-mail thread they inadvertently leaked to Church Militant.  Fr. Duverger should also be removed.  Despite the fact that there's no evidence presented that he actually assaulted anyone, Fr. Wegner and Vogel both admit a history of similar allegations that render him unfit for any pastoral role or contact with young ladies.

    1) one allegation ... you do a thorough investigation and keep a close eye on the accused and remove hm from pastoral contact (unless the matter is grave, in which case it needs to be reported to authorities).  I'm talking allegations of inappropriate conversation or what could be construed as grooming.

    2) repeated SIMILAR allegations from independent sources unknown to each other, and they suddenly become credible and must be acted upon in proportion to the gravity of the accusation.

    Offline ARMCHAIR Theologian

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    Re: Michael Voris Publishes Article on SSPX Abuse
    « Reply #61 on: April 23, 2020, 03:38:00 PM »
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  • Our Lady of La Salette on the 19th of September
     (1846) appeared to two youth, Melanie and
     Maximum on a Mountain in La Salette,
     France. Her words, spoken through Her
     tears to them
    , are chilling and include many
     admonitions that may give an a
    nswer.

    If my people do not wish to submit
     themselves, I am forced to let go off
     the hand of My Son. It is so heavy and
     weighs Me down so much I can no
     longer keep hold of it.



          I have suffered all the time for the
           rest of you! If
    I do not wish My Son

    to abandon you, I must take it upon
     Myself to pray for this continually. And
     the rest of you think little of this. In
     vain you will pray, in vain you will act,
     you will never be able to make up to
     the troubles I have taken over for the
     rest of you.


    Our Lady then went on to explain that the
     reason for Her continual prayers results,

    in part, from failure to honor the Lord's
    Day (Sunday) which is against the Third
     Commandment of God; and for those taking
     the name of God in vain, against God's
     Second Commandment
    . Then Our Lady
     continued with a greater concern
    :


    The priest, ministers of My Son, the
     priests, by their wicked lives, by their
     irreverence and their impiety in the
     celebration of the holy mys
    teries,

    by their love of money, their love of
     honors and pleasures, the priests
     have become cesspools of impurity.
     Yes, the priests are asking vengeance
     and vengeance is hanging over their
     heads. Woe to the p
    riests and to
     those dedicated to God who by their
     unfaithfulness and their wicked lives

          are crucifying My Son again!

    God will strike in an
     unprecedented way. Woe to the
     
    inhabitants of earth! God will exhaust
     His wrath upon them
    , and no one will
     be able to escape so many afflictions
     together.


    The chiefs, the leaders of the
     people of God have neglected prayer
     and penance, and the devil has
     bedimmed their intelligence. They
     have become wandering stars which
     the old devil will drag along with

    his tail to make them perish. God
    will allow the old serpent to cause
     
    divisions among those who reign

    in every society and in every family.
     Physical and moral agonies will be
     
    suffered.


    Italy will be punished for her
     ambition in wanting to shake off the
     yoke of the Lord of Lords ... Churches
     will be locked up or desecrated .•• Woe
     to the Princes of the Church who think
     only of piling riches upon riches to
     protect their authority and dominate
     with pride
    .


    The civil governments will have
     one and the same plan, which will be
     to abolish and do away with every
     religious principal, to make way for
     materialism, atheism, spiritualism, and
     vice of all kinds.


    Offline apollo

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    Re: Michael Voris Publishes Article on SSPX Abuse
    « Reply #62 on: April 23, 2020, 03:39:24 PM »
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  • There was some disturbing information in there for which some of the SSPX leadership should be held accountable, but these were, unfortunately, blurred together with a number of gravely-sinful smear jobs.
    .
    Thanks for a good article and not freaking out like some of the other rabid dogs
    who have blood in their eyes.

    Offline Olduvai Oliphant

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    Re: Michael Voris Publishes Article on SSPX Abuse
    « Reply #63 on: April 23, 2020, 04:01:48 PM »
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  • Now, Fr. Wegner needs to be deposed of any rank in the SSPX and sent to a monastery.  Vogel should be fired.  They both admit that they were aware of a long history of similar allegations against Fr. Duverger and were more interested in the PR angle than the actual fact.  So it wasn't a matter of an isolated allegation that may have been fabricated.  And the fact that both Fr. Wegner and Vogel knew about the long past of Fr. Duverger came out in that e-mail thread they inadvertently leaked to Church Militant.  Fr. Duverger should also be removed.  Despite the fact that there's no evidence presented that he actually assaulted anyone, Fr. Wegner and Vogel both admit a history of similar allegations that render him unfit for any pastoral role or contact with young ladies.

    This correct. Fr. Wegner is no longer capable of being trusted, and Vogel is even Worse.
    A thorough House Cleaning needs to from Switzerland. It won't, but it needs to.
    What a way to rebut, the CM/Voris Hit Job, than by taking aggressive, spiritual action against the offenders. Not Words, But Actions!
    In a fallen World that craves leadership, think of how refreshing it would be, if the World saw a Catholic Body, DO Something, rather than talk....?

    Offline apollo

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    Re: Michael Voris Publishes Article on SSPX Abuse
    « Reply #64 on: April 24, 2020, 03:05:08 AM »
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  • .
    Michael Voris (Church Militant) attack #2.  
    He is spewing out lies about the founding of the SSPX. 
    It's a short version of the longer video, called "Spotlight
    Investigation on the SSPX".  
    .
    He says this SSPX cover-up almost dwarfs the world-wide 
    perversion of the last 20 years. 

    Hey, Michael Voris, do you have a problem with the 
    heresies in Vatican II ???  I didn't think so.  If Vatican II 
    sends people to hell, no big deal, but the cover-up of 
    perversions is worse than anything.  

    Why don't you get upset about the desire of the SSPX 
    leaders to be reconciled with Rome ??
    .


    Offline Incredulous

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    Re: Michael Voris Publishes Article on SSPX Abuse
    « Reply #65 on: April 24, 2020, 06:37:11 AM »
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  • And this at 2:40, Michael Voris, the judaizer...


    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi

    Offline apollo

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    Re: Michael Voris Publishes Article on SSPX Abuse
    « Reply #66 on: April 24, 2020, 09:27:35 AM »
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  • WOW.  #1 Evil - nαzιes,  #2 Evil - Abortionists,  #3 Evil - SSPX cover-up. 

    Offline Struthio

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    Re: Michael Voris Publishes Article on SSPX Abuse
    « Reply #67 on: April 24, 2020, 10:22:22 AM »
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  • Offline Incredulous

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    Re: Michael Voris Publishes Article on SSPX Abuse
    « Reply #68 on: April 24, 2020, 10:39:56 AM »
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  • That’s what happens to Americanized Fillipinas.  They start eating a lot of junk food and get fat  :popcorn:
    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi

    Offline cassini

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    Re: Michael Voris Publishes Article on SSPX Abuse
    « Reply #69 on: April 24, 2020, 10:58:07 AM »
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  • Offline BeatusRusticus

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    Re: Michael Voris Publishes Article on SSPX Abuse
    « Reply #70 on: April 24, 2020, 11:50:01 AM »
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  • I am an SSPX parishioner, sympathetic to the Resistance. I was sent the original article the other day by a European SSPX-attending friend, who was understandably a bit perturbed. He wanted my thoughts.

    After reading the article, I, too, was a bit perturbed. Indeed, my “peace of soul” was lost for the entire remainder of the day. I thought I concealed it well enough but my wife asked me what was wrong. I played it off as “a long day,” because one really doesn’t want to say “I’m upset because a few priests we know have been accused of terrible sex crimes” around the children. My point is, these are disturbing allegations and they are liable to make anyone seriously question their “affiliation” or loyalties. Which, in my opinion, is exactly what the article intended, and is the chief evil of these sorts of articles. I wanted to have a knee-jerk reaction, but some things about the article seemed wrong. 

    A good night’s sleep, and a rereading of the article confirmed my initial hesitancy. When I read it the first time, my initial reaction was something along the lines of “Why in God’s name doesn’t the SSPX get it that this is disgusting? If a priest does this sort of thing they need to be castrated and burnt at the stake, and secular justice will be too merciful. The SSPX needs to do a thorough housecleaning!” As the comments section of CM website shows, this reaction is fairly typical. I imagine dramatic music and voice acting makes the video even more potent. 

    However, a more careful reading will show that, in spite of clearly sloppy and fairly unsubstantiated reporting and a few grammatical and punctuation errors which show just how little real editorial effort went into the piece,  the piece is “well crafted” for its purpose. It was well written, in the sense that it starts off with the most scandalous/evil/dire accusation: “Fr. Angles raped a little boy who later committed ѕυιcιdє, bribed the family, and oh by the way he was totally a nαzι who loved to groom young boys”. Thus, everything in the article after that, regardless of whether it was substantial or not, takes the character of “supporting actors in this same drama.” Virtually every subsequent allegation just drags up whatever mud might exist and throws it wantonly, with the evident hope that some will stick. 

    Now, I never met Fr. Angles. But I did live in St. Mary’s for a few years immediately after his departure, under the rectorship of Fr. Griego. My “take” was that Fr. Griego had a very thankless job, because Fr. Angles was an extremely polarizing figure. Many in the town loved him and missed him terribly, and a few others hated him and castigated him mercilessly, and would probably even blame him if there was a drought or tornado. Interestingly enough, most of the folks who loved him were “my type of trad:” big families, educated in European (ie Catholic) history, aware of the malign influences of the Freemasons, godless enlightenment types, and yes, the Jews. Most of the folks that hated him were the type who said: “We need a good God-fearing Catholic President, because this is ‘Murica! And Father criminally undereducated my children because there wasn’t even any h0Ɩ0cαųst or social justice unit in high school history!” So, when I perceive that the strongest and most lurid “case” in the article consists of some “new” unsubstantiated hearsay (Gonzalez) and some very old allegations from an anti-SSPX article from the early 90s, uncritically reprinted even though to my knowledge some or most of the supposed witnesses never existed... it definitely lessens the credibility of the piece, to say the least.

    The subsequent cases are all “old news,” in the sense that we already knew about them. The “few bad apples” comes to mind. It’s hard to weigh in on the truth of the Fr. Peignot or Fr. Abbet or Fr. Abraham happenings, because it’s “over there.” A journalist can easily dredge up some muck and spin it to fit their agenda, and it’s darn hard for anyone at a distance to make a clear judgment about guilt or innocence, let alone ascertain who knew what, who was covering for whom, etc. These men were probably all guilty of something and it seems that their crimes have come to light and they have been dealt with. (When I met Fr. Abraham in the UK in 2009, he was more or less in the same situation as Bp. Williamson: under “house arrest” and forbidden contact with the faithful. I didn’t know anything about him; frankly I assumed he had terminal cancer or something.) So while we do wish that certainly-known accusers could be impaled on a pike in the public square, it does behoove us to remember that things are not always so certain. These sins are called “secret” for a reason. I’m not trying to exonerate the SSPX leadership of all wrongdoing here, just pointing out that these cases are presented in the article as “news” when in fact they are more like “history.” And uncertain history at that. 

    The article clearly smears Fr. Ken Novak in a most unjust way, which will be particularly evident to anyone who has ever met the man. They try to imply that he’s some kind of cult leader/serial womanizer, which would be laughable if it weren’t so unjust and completely wrong. To me, anyone who publishes lies like this (which must clearly be malicious) loses all credibility. I mean, to the point where if they say that Pope Francis said something liberal, I would be inclined to doubt it, if the source was CM. 

    In summary, it seems like the only real revelations in this article are the allegations by “Jassy.” While at first blush this seems to point to terrible SSPX mismanagement, “Oh my gosh!! He said something inappropriate!! And he’s running a school?!” when you reread the nature of the allegations you perceive just how flimsy the case against the man is. At worst he was acting a bit sleazy/succuмbing to temptation for salacious information. At best he was legitimately trying to help his penitent and may have phrased himself badly in English. And there’s of course a huge difference between saying something inappropriate to a woman, and sodomizing a little boy. (Frankly even if the priest were caught at a whorehouse I wouldn’t say he deserved public shame and defrocking per se.) Being unfaithful to ones vows or committing a sin against the 6th and 9th commandments is a far cry from being a sɛҳuąƖ predator. 

    I thought the SSPX response was pretty good. Of course, in 2020, they could have responded with a meme or a simple “lol ur gαy” and it would have made the point just as well. 

    CM’s response to the SSPX was basically just a rehash of their article and a lot of hand-waving. But they proved their goal of dishonesty by bringing up the infamous “Fr. U” case. They talk about the SSPX’s great sin of harboring him, but neglect to mention how he, and anyone associated with him, were summarily expelled from the society, or how the Society warned the diocese in Pennsylvania about these priests, or how the diocese accepted them and dealt with the aftermath when they began molesting. To omit these facts which completely change the nature of the SSPX’s conduct in this case 180 degrees, tells us all we need to know about the sincerity or veracity of the article. ...which is undoubtedly why a lot of prior commenters in this thread have preferred to “shoot the messenger” rather than dive into the allegations. 


    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: Michael Voris Publishes Article on SSPX Abuse
    « Reply #71 on: April 24, 2020, 12:14:05 PM »
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  • To give the benefit of doubt to the heterosɛҳuąƖ priest Fr. Duverger, who is the subject of 40% of the volume of paragraphs in the OP article. In 2013 he did not really speak English. It may be that he asked for the details in writing because he wanted to translate the confession to understand it fully. Moreover, I do not consider a heterosɛҳuąƖ man losing it for a moment (for no one has accused him of even touching them!) as being in the same ballpark as a man actually committing sodomy.  It is natural for a man to be attracted to young women, that should be no surprise.


    An 80 year old priest was asked by a young priest; "When will I be free of the temptations of girls"? The old priest answered, I'll let you know when I get there. THAT is why I would never let my wife help around a priory, she is too young.
    I stand corrected, I missed this part in the OP article:

    Quote
    "Stunned, Jassy was then put in touch with another alleged victim, one whose story has been deemed credible by state authorities and which reportedly involved not only sɛҳuąƖ grooming but also sɛҳuąƖ assault by Fr. Duverger."

    The question is, what exactly does this accusation of "sɛҳuąƖ assault" consist of in detail? It could be that he just tried to kiss her or groped her momentarily.

    I was chasing bikini clad girls on the beach till I was 42, at which time I came back to the Church and changed my life completely. During those wild years, girls threw themselves at me all the time because I was popular, and when I moved on from them, they were sometimes very spiteful. They could have easily accused me of sɛҳuąƖ assault many times by today's standards, just to punish me out of spite. Anyhow, what Fr. Duverger is accused of is not anywhere comparable with the actions of the sodomites.

    Offline Mr G

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    Re: Michael Voris Publishes Article on SSPX Abuse
    « Reply #72 on: April 24, 2020, 12:49:43 PM »
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  • In summary, it seems like the only real revelations in this article are the allegations by “Jassy.” 
    FYI: Jassy Jacas is her real name.

    Offline Mr G

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    Offline Sam Smith

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    Re: Michael Voris Publishes Article on SSPX Abuse
    « Reply #74 on: April 24, 2020, 01:47:21 PM »
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  • The article clearly smears Fr. Ken Novak in a most unjust way, which will be particularly evident to anyone who has ever met the man. They try to imply that he’s some kind of cult leader/serial womanizer, which would be laughable if it weren’t so unjust and completely wrong. allegations.
    True.

    However, the other priests in question are legitimately in trouble with the law. Fr. Novak is not.