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Author Topic: Michael Voris Publishes Article on SSPX Abuse  (Read 34642 times)

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Offline trad123

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Re: Michael Voris Publishes Article on SSPX Abuse
« Reply #270 on: April 28, 2020, 08:22:16 PM »
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  • Why get upset if you think Voris has got nothing substantial?

    Sermons of the Cure of Ars



    Fourth Sunday of Advent – Penance

    http://gardenofmary.com/fourth-sunday-of-advent-penance/


    Quote

    (. . .)


    After we have made satisfaction to God, we must make satisfaction to our neighbor for the wrong which we have done him, in soul and body. I say for the wrong that we have done to his body, that is to say to his person, by speaking of him in an abusive and contemptuous way, or by insulting him by our malicious actions. If we have had the misfortune to offend him by our abusive talk, we must ask his pardon, and become reconciled with him. If you have assailed the honor of your neighbor, for instance, by speaking ill of him you are obliged to speak of his good qualities, as you have spoken about his bad ones. If you have calumniated him, you must seek out all those persons in whose presence you have spoken falsely about him, and tell them that all you said about your neighbor was not true; that you are very sorry about it, and that you beg them not to believe it. If you have wronged him in regard to his soul, that is far more difficult to make good; however, you must do what you possibly can, or you will not obtain forgiveness from God.


    Eleventh Sunday After Pentecost – Detraction

    http://gardenofmary.com/eleventh-sunday-after-pentecost-detractio/


    Quote
    When we impute something bad to our neighbor which he has not committed, a defect which he does not possess, we commit calumny; a most detestable act, which unfortunately, and in spite of its great wrong, is very common. This is not detraction, it is more sinful, but from detraction to calumny is only a small step. If we are honest, we must admit that we invariably add something to, or magnify the bad which we know of our neighbor. A slanderous story that has passed from tongue to tongue, no longer resembles that which was said at first, it has been so much engrossed and aggravated; from which fact we must conclude that a detractor is almost invariably also a calumniator, and a calumniator is a very wicked person.

    (. . .)

    To speak badly of persons consecrated to God, of the servants of the church, is a much greater sin on account of the lamentable results to religion and of the detriment to their position. The Holy Ghost speaking by the mouth of the prophet says: “To abuse and revile His (the Holy Ghost's) servants is to touch the apple of His eye”; that means nothing can offend Him more. This sin consequently is a crime, the enormity of which surpasses all comprehension. Christ also said: “Whosoever despises you, despises me.”



    2 Corinthians 4:3-4 

    And if our gospel be also hid, it is hid to them that are lost, In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of unbelievers, that the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should not shine unto them.

    Offline Tradman

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    Re: Michael Voris Publishes Article on SSPX Abuse
    « Reply #271 on: April 28, 2020, 08:42:31 PM »
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  • It seems people are not actually discussing the issues, but have resorted to attacking persons, which on its face suggests they are afraid that the details won't favor their position.        


    Offline Incredulous

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    Re: Michael Voris Publishes Article on SSPX Abuse
    « Reply #272 on: April 28, 2020, 09:17:32 PM »
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  • It seems people are not actually discussing the issues, but have resorted to attacking persons, which on its face suggests they are afraid that the details won't favor their position.        

    At issue is a sex scandal media campaign launched by Church Militant.

    The first question posed:

    Do you believe the veracity of the campaigners, when they also promote:

    1.  The h0Ɩ0h0αx.
    2.  The Noehide laws.
    3.  The Opus Dei 



    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi

    Offline 1st Mansion Tenant

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    Re: Michael Voris Publishes Article on SSPX Abuse
    « Reply #273 on: April 29, 2020, 01:33:21 PM »
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  • It seems to me that if our SSPX & Resistance superiors/bishops were actually good shepherds they would have immediately given those perverts the choice of being defrocked or living out their vocations somewhere like Papa Stronsay. (Not leaving them to minister to the faithful like wolves in sheep's clothing, or keeping them as housekeepers who are allowed out amongst the flock.) All these years I defended them with "We don't have perverts like the NO". Silly me.

    Offline Tradman

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    Re: Michael Voris Publishes Article on SSPX Abuse
    « Reply #274 on: April 29, 2020, 02:45:23 PM »
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  • At issue is a sex scandal media campaign launched by Church Militant.

    The first question posed:

    Do you believe the veracity of the campaigners, when they also promote:

    1.  The h0Ɩ0h0αx.
    2.  The Noehide laws.
    3.  The Opus Dei
    While it may be helpful to know where Church Militant stands on the issues listed, it don't answer the bigger questions: Does CM have the evidence to prove their claims against the SSPX? Is everyone on this thread certain there are zero abusers in the SSPX? Is it impossible that every single priest/bishop in the SSPX would ever cover up abuse, either through malice or really bad judgement that demands correction?  We should ask the same questions of those launching personal attacks on CI that we ask CM because abuse happens kind of a lot these days. If it's true, heads should roll.  And if there are victims, they need our support. Conversely, if CM is lying, all the snarky comments won't bother him a bit.  If he can't prove his allegations, his head would need to roll.      


    Offline KevinBrumley

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    Offline Gabriella

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    Re: Michael Voris Publishes Article on SSPX Abuse
    « Reply #276 on: May 23, 2020, 03:05:17 PM »
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  • There was the case of Fr. Benedict VanderPutten.  After getting wind of what happened there, the SSPX immediately removed him and reported him to the Vatican, and this was after local authorities had opted not to file charges against him due to lack of evidence.

    So there are contrary cases also that Voris remained silent about.
    You are dead wrong on this case. Sadly, the SSPX did coverup this one for a very long time to the detriment of children. You may find this out very soon.

    Offline Thorn

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    Re: Michael Voris Publishes Article on SSPX Abuse
    « Reply #277 on: May 23, 2020, 05:13:16 PM »
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  • It is clear to me that a few of the members here (one in particular) have a serious ax to grind with the Society, to the extent that they have already accepted the veracity of every single one of the many allegations contained in CM's report, unquestioningly and without hesitation.

    To the extent that we unquestioningly accept the entirety of CM's report without waiting patiently for the Society to respond (when they are legally able to do so), we embrace the rabid mentality of the #MeToo movement, thinking with emotion rather than reason.

    To me, this isn't really even about CM's history of circulating false, anti-SSPX canards, or their relationship with Opus Dei. The fact is that charity and prudence DEMAND that we consider both sides of the story, which, again, we cannot at the present moment do because the Society has likely been gag-ordered by the courts. To accept wholesale every allegation Church Militant has made would demonstrate a serious lack of judgement in the same way that accepting, without reservation, the Society's explanations.

    Sam Smith literally insinuated that you were soft on pederast priests simply because you wouldn't tar and feather the SSPX or accept without hesitation information that you read on the internet. To debate with someone so driven by emotion is pointless.

    Does the Society have a lot of explaining to do? Oh yeah.
    Are many parts of Church Militant's report concerning? You bet.
    Has the Society's response thus far appeared unconvincing? You could argue so.
    Should we, with reckless abandon, join with Voris in shredding the Society before they've had the chance to respond? Nope.
    You mean that the CM Report is DISCONCERTING.
    "I will lead her into solitude and there I will speak to her heart.  Osee 2:14


    Offline Incredulous

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    Re: Michael Voris Publishes Article on SSPX Abuse
    « Reply #278 on: May 23, 2020, 06:36:50 PM »
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  • You are dead wrong on this case. Sadly, the SSPX did coverup this one for a very long time to the detriment of children. You may find this out very soon.
    Bring it on!

    Fr. Vanderputen’s record became very public after Bp. Fellay appealed to B16 to defrock him.

    The action served 2 purposes:

    1. To remove Vanderputen from all    
         Catholic venues.

    2.  To demonstrate that the SSPX   
         needed newChurch authority to 
         govern one of it’s ex-members.

    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi

    Offline Eliza10

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    Re: Michael Voris Publishes Article on SSPX Abuse
    « Reply #279 on: May 28, 2020, 01:26:51 AM »
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  • Has Taylor Marshall said anything on CM's report on SSPX child molestation, protecting abusers, and Fellay? Because I have looked, and haven't seen it.

    I watched Marshall's two recent SPPX priest-guest videos he had, and I took note when he said he want to an SSPX Easter Mass with his family, and I was swayed to soften my reserve about SSPX. To begin to think that maybe SSPX was a viable refuge. Then this comes out from Church Militant. And SSPX uses the same entitled cover-up that the American bishops used, eventeh same words. They are no different. (Actually, really, worse). So, no refuge. A nicer Mass, but a hierarchy MORE dysfunctional and entitled (which I hadn't imagined was possible).

    So what does Taylor Marshall have to say now? Nothing at all? I sure am disappointed in him if that is the case.
    And the peace of God, which surpasseth all understanding, keep your hearts and minds in Christ Jesus.

    Offline Frank

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    Re: Michael Voris Publishes Article on SSPX Abuse
    « Reply #280 on: May 28, 2020, 12:50:49 PM »
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  • Who cares what Taylor Marshall says.
    Do what the Church says.
    Taylor Marshall himself needs to study.


    Offline josefamenendez

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    Re: Michael Voris Publishes Article on SSPX Abuse
    « Reply #281 on: May 28, 2020, 01:21:11 PM »
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  • Tradcast Express did a review of Taylor Marshall's "opus magnum" "Infiltration: The Plot to Destroy the Church from Within." 
    Tradcast shredded the book- it was almost embarrassing. TM's opinions were left alone, but Tradcast focused on just how poorly docuмented and footnoted the book was, especially for a PHD in Theology who should have known how to write from his dissertation. Tradcast picked up that he used Wikipedia for a lot of his sourcing (lol) instead of Vatican docuмents and biographies that could have provided solid evidence.  
    Remember, TM threw Dr King From Fisher More College under the bus for trying to be Traditional as possible, eschewing Vll and inviting Fr Gruner to speak at the college, so I think it's funny that he holds himself up to be such a Rad Trad.
    He's a bit snakey to me.

    Offline fatimarevelation23

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    Re: Michael Voris Publishes Article on SSPX Abuse
    « Reply #282 on: May 28, 2020, 02:15:37 PM »
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  • It seems to me that if our SSPX & Resistance superiors/bishops were actually good shepherds they would have immediately given those perverts the choice of being defrocked or living out their vocations somewhere like Papa Stronsay. (Not leaving them to minister to the faithful like wolves in sheep's clothing, or keeping them as housekeepers who are allowed out amongst the flock.) All these years I defended them with "We don't have perverts like the NO". Silly me.
    If somebody wants to shoot me from a window with a rifle, Nobody can stop it, so why worry about it? - John F. Kennedy, The Morning of November 22nd, 1963.

    Offline Tradman

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    Re: Michael Voris Publishes Article on SSPX Abuse
    « Reply #283 on: May 28, 2020, 02:28:01 PM »
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    Offline Eliza10

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    Re: Michael Voris Publishes Article on SSPX Abuse
    « Reply #284 on: May 28, 2020, 04:46:34 PM »
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  • Tradcast Express did a review of Taylor Marshall's "opus magnum" "Infiltration: The Plot to Destroy the Church from Within."
    Tradcast shredded the book- it was almost embarrassing. TM's opinions were left alone, but Tradcast focused on just how poorly docuмented and footnoted the book was, especially for a PHD in Theology who should have known how to write from his dissertation. Tradcast picked up that he used Wikipedia for a lot of his sourcing (lol) instead of Vatican docuмents and biographies that could have provided solid evidence.  
    Remember, TM threw Dr King From Fisher More College under the bus for trying to be Traditional as possible, eschewing Vll and inviting Fr Gruner to speak at the college, so I think it's funny that he holds himself up to be such a Rad Trad.
    He's a bit snakey to me.
    Tradcast, Fisher More, some King thing - I had to look it up, but nothing made it clear and quick, but I got: Tradcast is Sedevacantist (and I am not); King thing was 2010, so I don't know if TM's views on whatever happened have evolved; Fisher More is the college is TM's hometown (or nearby) that he was apparently involved with, then not, because of not being happy about something with King.

    But I am not motivated to find out more, because of course it's expected that Tradcast would not like Infiltration because they think every single thing since Vatican II is not real, so, there is no church itself to infiltrate. Also no surprise that they could find ways to pick it apart. Remembering that Rose's Goodbye, Good Men was not good enough as an expose\t for many. One can always find points of a thing to argue, and argue endlessly, especially if they cross our preconceived ideas. Especially ideas we are very committed to. 
    So, if you are Sedevacantist, the only church existing to be infiltrated would be SSPX. Oh, and we see that happened. Only, it's same same MO used on the NO church.
    I was Evangelical Christian before converting, and in that path one must use discernment, without the actual Church teachings to consult, but only the Bible, and whoever seems most expert and pious to interpret. I was interested always in becoming "more Christian", and cult-like groups often claimed to be that, and they looked more Christian. But looking closer, I saw patterns of things not right. So when I became Catholic and saw so much wrong in our NO Church, I looked a bit at SSPX, and saw some of those same marks - more Christian, convinced they were the only right ones, i.e. But also what concerned me was the unquestioning loyalty to a hierarchy that has no transparency. I know that is not a good thing, that it is a breeding ground for abuse of power, in all manners. Look what it invites and harbors. : (  I am sorry for all those who are suffering because of the truth of the CM revelations, and I am aghast at those in denial, claiming CM is just out to get SSPX. How silly. But sad.
    And the peace of God, which surpasseth all understanding, keep your hearts and minds in Christ Jesus.