Catholic Info
Traditional Catholic Faith => SSPX Resistance News => Topic started by: PereJoseph on July 12, 2012, 01:23:20 PM
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While recognising its inevitability, I regret to make public some sad news :
At the General Chapter, which is presently being held at Écône, there was a vote taken on the decision of Bishop Fellay to exclude Bishop Williamson from the Chapter. Bishop Williamson sent an explanatory letter to each member of the Chapter regarding his understanding of the crisis that the FSSPX currently endures. (It has not yet been made public but will be made public; I have not read it.) Bishop Fellay abstained from voting. The final vote was 29 vs. 9 in favour of Bishop Fellay's decision to exclude Bishop Williamson.
Thus, we now have final proof that Bishop Fellay's coup of the Fraternity has been accomplished. His work is complete. Over two thirds of the members of the Chapter are his men. The FSSPX founded by the Archbishop, as we have known it and loved it over the years, is done.
Now, as the hardship we have expected nears, the SSPX clergy and faithful will be armed with this information when they make some weighty decisions for their futures and their families.
In this month of July, may you all be washed in the Most Precious Blood of Jesus, Whose Heart suffers because of our sins and lack of faith.
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Coincidence that this vote is the same 3:1 ratio of appointed positions vs. senior priests in attendance at General Chapter meetings?
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Well, so much for rumor.
This seems like pretty hard evidence that the current Superior General has stacked the deck in his favor. And why?
Why would he need to stack the deck, if he was only interested in continuing the fight for Tradition, along the lines of Archbishop Lefebvre?
When I heard about the new Prefect for the CDF (a heretic), I was hoping that even Bishop Fellay would have to call off a deal.
But now I'm not so certain.
Just remember: Bishop Rifan was a traditional Bishop as well.
Just look at the illegal exclusion of +Williamson from the General Chapter.
Bishop Rifan did a deal, and has celebrated the Novus Ordo Mass many times since then.
Who else might follow in +Rifan's footsteps?
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How dare Bishop Fellay accuse the other THREE Bishops -- all of them his senior, and better man than he -- of a lack of supernatural spirit?
That is a grave injustice that should make any good Catholic angry.
I think the "lack of supernatural spirit" isn't on the side of Bishops Williamson, de Galarreta and de Mallerais.
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How dare Bishop Fellay accuse the other THREE Bishops -- all of them his senior, and better man than he -- of a lack of supernatural spirit?
That is a grave injustice that should make any good Catholic angry.
I think the "lack of supernatural spirit" isn't on the side of Bishops Williamson, de Galarreta and de Mallerais.
It's the unclean spirit of Vatican II: inversion of the truth.
Up is down and down is up.
Yes is no and no is yes.
Supernatural spirit is lack of supernatural spirit, and lack of supernatural spirit
is -- TA-DA! -- supernatural spirit.
+Fellay makes accusations against "the three" when he is describing not their
shortcomings, but his own. He is the one culpable of lack of supernatural spirit, but
in order to criticize his opposition, he lies (OH NOT THAT AGAIN!) and says that
"they" lack supernatural spirit.
It's all smoke and mirrors: The smoke of satan and the mirrors of iniquity.
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Well, Bishop Williamson himself was excluded from voting and I doubt Fr Morgan would have voted against Bp Williamson. So, if there are ten senior priests and Bishop Fellay is not included in that number, it means that one of them voted against Bishop Williamson. If there are more, it means more of them voted with Bishop Fellay. Maybe they had good reasons, such as, "When we speak out against the deal and Bishop Fellay, we do not want it to seem like it is merely Bishop Williamson talking through us, so that we can easily be discredited," or something like that. Whoever did what, I suppose we cannot know.
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In this month of July, may you all be washed in the Most Precious Blood of Jesus, Whose Heart suffers because of our sins and lack of faith.
This is key PereJoseph. I feel ashamed at myself for what I have done and the lack of faith in my life which has contributed, no doubt, to allowing this to pass. My the the most Sacred Heart have mercy on us, and may we be relentlessly devoted to it. Immaculate Heart of Mary, Please Pray For Us!
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From the Rorate Caeli blog:
UPHELD: Williamson exclusion maintained by SSPX General Chapter
Now that the matter has unfortunately been leaked and made public in the usual forums in which leaked docuмents magically appear, Rorate is independently able to confirm that the exclusion of Bishop Richard Williamson as a member of the General Chapter of the Society of Saint Pius X (FSSPX / SSPX) was upheld by an overwhelming majority of the capitularies currently assembled in midterm General Chapter taking place in the International Seminary of Saint Pius X, in Écône (Valais), Switzerland.
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From RC: It seems that + Fellay keeps the enemy more informed than his own faithful.
UPHELD: Williamson exclusion maintained by SSPX General Chapter
Now that the matter has unfortunately been leaked and made public in the usual forums in which leaked docuмents magically appear, Rorate is independently able to confirm that the exclusion of Bishop Richard Williamson as a member of the General Chapter of the Society of Saint Pius X (FSSPX / SSPX) was upheld by an overwhelming majority of the capitularies currently assembled in midterm General Chapter taking place in the International Seminary of Saint Pius X, in Écône (Valais), Switzerland.
The news of the exclusion of Bishop Williamson by the SSPX Superior General, Bishop Bernard Fellay, "due to his stand calling to rebellion and for continually repeated disobedience," was first confirmed by another leaked letter sent by the General Secretary of the SSPX, Father Thouvenot, on June 25, 2012, which was leaked in the same usual forums on the very same day it was received. The measure was questioned by Williamson himself, who appealed to the Chapter, whose members subsequently voted, in a secret ballot, to uphold the measure adopted by the Superior General.
The decision seems to show that the Superior General has kept his authority within the SSPX in these decisive months of discussions and decisions regarding the Society and the Holy See.
Labels: After the talks (Holy See-SSPX)
Posted by New Catholic at 7/12/2012 07:45:00 PM
0 comments
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In this month of July, may you all be washed in the Most Precious Blood of Jesus, Whose Heart suffers because of our sins and lack of faith.
This is key PereJoseph. I feel ashamed at myself for what I have done and the lack of faith in my life which has contributed, no doubt, to allowing this to pass. My the the most Sacred Heart have mercy on us, and may we be relentlessly devoted to it. Immaculate Heart of Mary, Please Pray For Us!
How unfortunately true that is. We knew it was coming, but we hoped against all hope that it wouldn't come to pass. God must have a plan in all this.
"Have mercy on me, O God, according to Thy great mercy...."
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It's not the first time the Bishop has been stabbed in the back by his own. I'm not surprised by this but commend those who yet again support the Bishop here in the public sphere and more importantly offline.
I don't doubt for a minute God is in control and these trials will bring about a greater resistance. People knew what to expect regarding Bishop Fellay.
I will gladly join the prayer requests mentioned on the thread.
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No doubt ALL the senior priests voted against his exclusion -- while all Bishop Fellay's "men" voted to sustain the action.
Well, Bishop Williamson himself was excluded from voting and I doubt Fr Morgan would have voted against Bp Williamson. So, if there are ten senior priests and Bishop Fellay is not included in that number, it means that one of them voted against Bishop Williamson. If there are more, it means more of them voted with Bishop Fellay. Maybe they had good reasons, such as, "When we speak out against the deal and Bishop Fellay, we do not want it to seem like it is merely Bishop Williamson talking through us, so that we can easily be discredited," or something like that. Whoever did what, I suppose we cannot know.
Let's hope that they see how their votes have consequences, and then all of them
might come to their senses before they vote on something more consequential!
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In this month of July, may you all be washed in the Most Precious Blood of Jesus, Whose Heart suffers because of our sins and lack of faith.
This is key PereJoseph. I feel ashamed at myself for what I have done and the lack of faith in my life which has contributed, no doubt, to allowing this to pass. My the the most Sacred Heart have mercy on us, and may we be relentlessly devoted to it. Immaculate Heart of Mary, Please Pray For Us!
How unfortunately true that is. We knew it was coming, but we hoped against all hope that it wouldn't come to pass. God must have a plan in all this.
"Have mercy on me, O God, according to Thy great mercy...."
Well, the FSSPX is not the Church, so hopefully the gradual disassociation of the fight for the Faith of the Kingdom of God exclusively with the institution of the FSSPX will actually make people focus more on becoming holy and enthroning the Sacred Heart in their homes and less on the vicissitudes of high international politics with Modernist Rome and Germany and the Italian mafia. These things have their place, but perhaps people trusted too much in the FSSPX and their status as "traditionalists," allowing, meanwhile, their fervour to wane in wake of the world creeping into their homes and daily lives. To me, therefore, it seems that it was necessary for the cause of Our Lord to be distinguished from the FSSPX as such in order to rebuke the mounting liberalism and laxity -- not to mention doctrinal incoherence -- within it. When this decline began is hard to tell. What will happen amongst all the parties involved now is harder to tell. The Hand of Providence is visible here as always, but it is, naturally, not always to see.
My personal hope is that this disassociation will precisely lead to the purification of the faithful and a great increase of faith, discipline, hope, and the spirit of prayer. No more cushion will block for us the hardness of the reality of the Church's situation, and we will instead be forced to pray and move forward, or else ! No more twiddling our thumbs until Menzingen finds a way to solve the centuries of corruption, the political oppression of the Holy See, the widespread apostasy by means of the Robber Council, and so forth. Also, perhaps this will unite traditional Catholics, since it will be that much harder to pretend to have jurisdiction for one's theological opinions or jurisdiction as such.
:incense:
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The $$PX is not about the Catholic Faith anymore.
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Whilst they vote to exclude the Bishop, I note that Maximilian Krah was at the Novus Ordo in Latin at the Brompton Oratory in London. Whilst he isn't a cleric of the Society, I would of thought he would have attended Mass at a Society chapel whilst in London. If he regards the SSPX as a conservative Catholic group, he would be quite at home at the Brompton Oratory.
Krah states on Facebook
Eher weniger zufällig - Brompton Oratory ist liturgisch m.E. die beste Adresse der ganzen Welt. Und zudem ein exzellentes Beispiel, wie man heute Großstadtseelsorge machen muss.
Rather less random - Brompton oratory is liturgical my opinion the best all over the world. And in addition, city must make an excellent example, as it is today.
Noch heute ist die 10:30-Sonntagsmesse Novus Ordo in Latein mit Römischem Kanon. Ich war 2011 zur Gründonnerstag, Latein, aber wohl neu, es war nicht zu spüren. Großes Theater! Groß! Die Rückgewinnung des Glaubens wird bei uns Katholiken über den Kultus erfolgen, so wie bei den Protestanten über die Schrift. Drum findest Du nahezu keinen wirklich gläubigen Protestanten, der nicht zum evangelikalen Bibelkreis geht, ebenso wie Katholiken unter 40, denen Gott noch irgendwas bedeutet, nahezu durchweg eine Schwäche für den alten Ritus haben. Diese Bewegung ist mE auch nicht aufzuhalten. Die "Reformepoche" ist vorbei. Und wir sind die Avantgarde!!!
Today is the 10: 30-Sunday mass of Novus Ordo in Latin with Roman Canon. I was however new 2011 to the Maundy Thursday, Latin, it was not. Great theater! Gross! The recovery of faith will be with us Catholics about the culture, as well as for the Protestants of the script. Drum you will find almost no really believing Protestants who goes not to the Evangelical Bible district, as well as Catholics under 40, whom God is still something almost consistently have a weakness for the old rite. This movement is mE also unstoppable. The "reform era" is over. And we are the avant-garde
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With this situation being considered as true, it is both a window and a harbinger of the outcome of the Chapter.
We always knew that the Chapter would consist of a majority of loyalists. So it is not a surprise although a great disappointment that so many of the priests have apparently lost any sense of justice.
Whatever proposal is presented for a vote by Bishop Fellay's team in favor of a "deal", will in all likelyhood pass with an equal show support.
If that happens , even now, when Bishops Mueller and DiNoia have made clear their demands for submission to the Council and the Jєωs and the breaking of Tradition and in light of this, Bishop Fellay has not had second thoughts and backed away, it will be unquestionable that he intends to lead the Society into what will end in modernist ruination.
That will be the end. It will become an indult order which will then need to be avoided.
Also, none of us know what, if any, or what kind of pressures might have been offered to the voting body. This is also the first step in rebuilding Bishop Fellay's claim to absolute power. It is indeed interesting that nothing else of substance was leaked but this?
Of course, I hope I will be wrong in these observations but............
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The $$PX is not about the Catholic Faith anymore.
I disagree as there still devout and good priests in it. However, his exclusion of Bishop Williamson is wrong and all SSPX priests have to 'reflect' on which direction the Society is going in. There will be consequences for having treated Bishop Williamson in this manner. The priests who voted against the Bishop are an absolute disgrace bearing in mind Fr Richard Williamson was the first name presented to Rome by the Archbishop. Now, Bishop Fellay and his men stab him in the back. Probably the same clerics who betrayed him after his interview.
The other two Bishops will have to lead a protest about this treatment of the Bishop.
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Archbishop Di Noia can't be any clearer when he wrote “This is a new concept which we know the Traditionalists will not be able to accept immediately. Convincing them will take time, and in this respect we will have to be patient.”
We will get them eventually is his mindset.
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+Fellay is afraid of him because he knows +Williamson has a following.
So he's trying to make sure H.E.'s following don't have any effect on the voting
members at the GC. He's been using terrorist tactics to keep everyone under his
thumb: not ordaining clerics who come from independent groups who have dared to
voice any opposition; expelling SSPX priests who do not tow HIS "party line"; making
threats to expel other SSPX priests who have spoken courageously in recent months.
Now he's using the same tactics in the GC.
And this was after a retreat, last week. I wasn't there, but if +Fellay has been using
the effects of the retreat to evoke "obedience" from the voting members, for his own
political ambitions, he's digging himself a really big hole in hell. Because that is the
misappropriation of spiritual power, sort of simony. But if he's doing that, it's not the
first time he's done it, so it would be habitual: he's been developing his "art" getting
ready for the big project at hand.................
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Vote with your pocket book... the $$PX understands this language.
I would recommend redirecting your tithe, or holding onto it for future redirection. This is perhaps the only way +Fellay and his ilk will know the mind of the faithful.
Consider also removing your children from their schools (if you haven't already done so) where the modernist indoctrination will continue to increase in frequency and amplitude.
The war is on!
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With this situation being considered as true, it is both a window and a harbinger of the outcome of the Chapter.
We always knew that the Chapter would consist of a majority of loyalists. So it is not a surprise although a great disappointment that so many of the priests have apparently lost any sense of justice.
Whatever proposal is presented for a vote by Bishop Fellay's team in favor of a "deal", will in all likelyhood pass with an equal show support.
If that happens , even now, when Bishops Mueller and DiNoia have made clear their demands for submission to the Council and the Jєωs and the breaking of Tradition and in light of this, Bishop Fellay has not had second thoughts and backed away, it will be unquestionable that he intends to lead the Society into what will end in modernist ruination.
That will be the end. It will become an indult order which will then need to be avoided.
If it becomes an Indult order (to be avoided) it seems impossible that "the three" will
continue to be involved. Rather, I see them separating and starting their own, new
Society, the same as +ABL did, the only difference being, they won't have Rome's
approval in the beginning the way he did. And if that happens, +Fellay will gradually
be replaced by another DiNoia or Muller: these types are a dime a dozen. And when
he's no longer at the helm, then the erstwhile lemmings, the district superior
yes-men, can face the fact that they have to "convert" whole hog to the new way of
doing things, or else be phased out like +Fellay was: what goes around comes
around! If they're going to do this nefarious deed to +Williamson now, then they
can fully expect to have B16 do it to them later!
I hope they're hearing that, because they're making their own problems.
Also, none of us know what, if any, or what kind of pressures might have been offered to the voting body. This is also the first step in rebuilding Bishop Fellay's claim to absolute power. It is indeed interesting that nothing else of substance was leaked but this?
Of course, I hope I will be wrong in these observations but............
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.................And to think: +Fellay had all of this in mind, while he was urging the
.................faithful of the world to join his Rosary Crusade for the intention of
.................the Collegial Consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary!
.................IF THAT ISN'T BLASPHEMY, I DON'T KNOW WHAT IS! And it's directed
.................not at the Holy Ghost, directly, but at His Spouse! What is that then?
.................Blasphemy against the Spouse of the Holy Ghost? I hope I don't
.................have to answer for that one come my particular judgment!
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“La Revolution Devore Ses Enfants”
Ask Fr. Laguerie of L'Institute du Bon Pasteur. Those perfidious clerics going along with the sell-out need only look to the history of the last 25+ years (starting with Mater Ecclesiae in 1986) to see how their vocations will be sullied and ultimately trampled in the mire of the NO.
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Whatever proposal is presented for a vote by Bishop Fellay's team in favor of a "deal", will in all likelyhood pass with an equal show support.
How would you reconcile this with the same group of individuals showing a strong vote against the Preamble last September?
I might be foolishly optomistic, but I'm hoping this vote against Bishop Williamson is along the lines of "we can and should be firmly against a deal without speaking publicly about how poorly our Superior has handled this situation."
It's a long shot, I know. :thinking:
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One of the lessor things that attracted me to come back to the Church, was the bullying that I heard of, where old people were being forced to accept the changes. Unfortunately for me, I never ran into any bullies. It's always been that way, bullies know who not to pick on.
I see now the bullying again in this backstabbing of the three bishops, and the SSPX as we knew it.
Maybe this time I'll run into some bullies. I look forward to the conflicts. What else have we got to do in this soft life? Lift weights? That's not noble.
There is nothing like having right on your side
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I've been wondering this for weeks. It's nice to see someone was able to put a list together.
For what it is worth the following are most likely the members of the 2012 General Chapter (I think it is accurate, but the final two on the longest-serving member list could possibly be incorrect).
Menzingen:
Bernard Fellay
Niklaus Pfluger
Alain-Marc Nely
Christian Thouvenot
Emeric Baudot
Bishops:
Richard Williamson
Bernard Tissier de Mallerais
Alfonso de Galarreta
Seminary Rectors:
Econe - Benoît de Jorna
Flavigny - Patrick Troadec
Goulburn - Vicente Griego
La Reja - Davide Pagliarani
Winona - Yves Le Roux
Zaitzkofen - Stefan Frey
Districts:
Africa - Loïc Duverger
Asia - Daniel Couture
Australia - Edward Black
Austria - Helmut Trutt
Belgium, Low Countries - Benoît Wailliez
Britain, Ireland, Scandinavia - Paul Morgan
Canada - Jürgen Wegner
Eastern Europe - Karl Stehlin
France - Régis de Cacqueray
Germany - Franz Schmidberger
Italy - Pierpaolo Petrucci
Mexico - Mario Trejo
South America - Christian Bouchacourt
Spain - Juan de Montagut Puertollano
Switzerland - Henry Wuilloud
USA - Arnaud Rostand
10 Priests by Seniority of Service:
Jean-Yves Cottard
Patrick Groche
Emmanuel du Chalard
Gregory Post
Louis-Paul Dubroeucq
Jean-Michel Faure
Pierre-Marie Laurencon
Jean-Pierre Boubee
Freddy Mery
Jacques Emily
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SSPX.org indicated there were four priests from the US district. Our two French leaders + Fr. Post + ______. Does anyone know who the fourth would be?
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SSPX.org indicated there were four priests from the US district. Our two French leaders + Fr. Post + ______. Does anyone know who the fourth would be?
Fr. Jaques Emily is the resident retreat master at Los Gatos, CA, USA. He's a very
fine priest. I can't say for sure, but I can't imagine him voting against having
+Williamson attend the GC.
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Thinking about it, something smells about this supposedly legitimate exercise of that sole authority for purely disciplinary reasons being placed first on the agenda, voted upon, and then leaked.
I can only see that it was in response to a minority raising the injustice of this action and Menzingen going through the motions of satisfying them, knowing that any vote would favor them anyway. In the end, making for another effective PR soundbite.
If you look at it objectively, it looks like another setup. And it is leaked.. and the Fellayites on the forums are blaming Bishop Williamson....again!
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With this situation being considered as true, it is both a window and a harbinger of the outcome of the Chapter.
We always knew that the Chapter would consist of a majority of loyalists. So it is not a surprise although a great disappointment that so many of the priests have apparently lost any sense of justice.
Whatever proposal is presented for a vote by Bishop Fellay's team in favor of a "deal", will in all likelyhood pass with an equal show support.
If that happens , even now, when Bishops Mueller and DiNoia have made clear their demands for submission to the Council and the Jєωs and the breaking of Tradition and in light of this, Bishop Fellay has not had second thoughts and backed away, it will be unquestionable that he intends to lead the Society into what will end in modernist ruination.
That will be the end. It will become an indult order which will then need to be avoided.
If it becomes an Indult order (to be avoided) it seems impossible that "the three" will
continue to be involved. Rather, I see them separating and starting their own, new
Society, the same as +ABL did, the only difference being, they won't have Rome's
approval in the beginning the way he did. And if that happens, +Fellay will gradually
be replaced by another DiNoia or Muller: these types are a dime a dozen. And when
he's no longer at the helm, then the erstwhile lemmings, the district superior
yes-men, can face the fact that they have to "convert" whole hog to the new way of
doing things, or else be phased out like +Fellay was: what goes around comes
around! If they're going to do this nefarious deed to +Williamson now, then they
can fully expect to have B16 do it to them later!
I hope they're hearing that, because they're making their own problems.
Also, none of us know what, if any, or what kind of pressures might have been offered to the voting body. This is also the first step in rebuilding Bishop Fellay's claim to absolute power. It is indeed interesting that nothing else of substance was leaked but this?
Of course, I hope I will be wrong in these observations but............
I agree, I do not believe that they have a grasp of the bad possibilities which are looming on the not so distant horizon.
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I might be foolishly optomistic, but I'm hoping this vote against Bishop Williamson is along the lines of "we can and should be firmly against a deal without speaking publicly about how poorly our Superior has handled this situation."
It's a long shot, I know. :thinking:
I'm afraid that such a line of thought misses the boiled- down significance of the vote, which is really about how the Fraternity's leadership views and understands the Catholic Faith, as represented in the persons of Bishop Fellay and Bishop Williamson.
I have not prayed hard enough nor consistently enough for the victory of the Faith. If supreme happiness lies in union with God, and the Faith is the only means of securing this, than I must perforce believe that Catholic Tradition is the most important thing on earth and in heaven. My thoughts, words, and deeds have not borne this out. Mea maxima culpa.
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With this situation being considered as true, it is both a window and a harbinger of the outcome of the Chapter.
We always knew that the Chapter would consist of a majority of loyalists. So it is not a surprise although a great disappointment that so many of the priests have apparently lost any sense of justice.
Whatever proposal is presented for a vote by Bishop Fellay's team in favor of a "deal", will in all likelyhood pass with an equal show support.
If that happens , even now, when Bishops Mueller and DiNoia have made clear their demands for submission to the Council and the Jєωs and the breaking of Tradition and in light of this, Bishop Fellay has not had second thoughts and backed away, it will be unquestionable that he intends to lead the Society into what will end in modernist ruination.
That will be the end. It will become an indult order which will then need to be avoided.
If it becomes an Indult order (to be avoided) it seems impossible that "the three" will
continue to be involved. Rather, I see them separating and starting their own, new
Society, the same as +ABL did, the only difference being, they won't have Rome's
approval in the beginning the way he did. And if that happens, +Fellay will gradually
be replaced by another DiNoia or Muller: these types are a dime a dozen. And when
he's no longer at the helm, then the erstwhile lemmings, the district superior
yes-men, can face the fact that they have to "convert" whole hog to the new way of
doing things, or else be phased out like +Fellay was: what goes around comes
around! If they're going to do this nefarious deed to +Williamson now, then they
can fully expect to have B16 do it to them later!
I hope they're hearing that, because they're making their own problems.
Also, none of us know what, if any, or what kind of pressures might have been offered to the voting body. This is also the first step in rebuilding Bishop Fellay's claim to absolute power. It is indeed interesting that nothing else of substance was leaked but this?
Of course, I hope I will be wrong in these observations but............
I agree, I do not believe that they have a grasp of the bad possibilities which are looming on the not so distant horizon.
I guess I didn't realise B Williamson would be on the agenda ... the future of tradition is at stake! I can't see how it is possible to uphold something like this when ABp Lefrebvre consecrated the four Bishops, equal one to the other, and not just one turning against the other but getting other superiors and priests to vote, it is scandalous! It is not as if a great sin or heresy has been committed. To silence someone speaking only tradition speaks volumes and is a real worry.
I'm afraid that such a line of thought misses the boiled- down significance of the vote, which is really about how the Fraternity's leadership views and understands the Catholic Faith, as represented in the persons of Bishop Fellay and Bishop Williamson.
I have not prayed hard enough nor consistently enough for the victory of the Faith. If supreme happiness lies in union with God, and the Faith is the only means of securing this, than I must perforce believe that Catholic Tradition is the most important thing on earth and in heaven. My thoughts, words, and deeds have not borne this out. Mea maxima culpa.
Have faith, for we all do what we can, Our Lord will take our shortcomings too ... "failure is success turned inside out", think I read that from a little St Jude card (brings tears to my eyes everytime I read it "don't you quit"). Difficult to understand except that perhaps what we see as failure Our Lord sees as victorious because we offer up ALL our prayers, failures and successes! As long as we always get up again! :pop:
Perhaps this 'purge' is for modernists to join Rome and for us to carry on with whatever is left of the true traditional priests and keep smiling! We have to be joyful even during sorrowful times thanking Our Lord for this cross... and this might help too :wink: :alcohol:
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SSPX.org indicated there were four priests from the US district. Our two French leaders + Fr. Post + ______. Does anyone know who the fourth would be?
Fr. Jaques Emily is the resident retreat master at Los Gatos, CA, USA. He's a very
fine priest. I can't say for sure, but I can't imagine him voting against having
+Williamson attend the GC.
Three French priests to "represent" the USA, which is one of the two largest Districts!
Apart from Fr. Post, how many real Americans were members of the SSPX General Chapter?
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In the end, it is not really unexpected that this would happen. The chapter consists with a majority of Bishop Fellay's appointees. That being so, any decisions which will be made, will be in favor of his postion. These are apparently men who exhibit staunch loyalty to a person, but they seem not to be men of conscience.
When the split which Bishop Fellay has knowingly fomented happens, it will become clear who and who should not be trusted with the spiritual welfare of souls.
I expect that Bishop Fellay will emerge with full authority to continue his chosen path. The union of the Society has been broken. It has been infiltrated by shadows, secrecy, and reprisals. That much we know. In a few days we will know more, or perhaps maybe less.
Once the lion is no longer distraced, I fear it will be angry and turn its attentions to those brave priests who have spoken out. We must pray to Heaven for their protection.
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I'm laughing at the Bishop Fellay lackey 'Henry V' having his moment over on Ignis Ardens.
http://cathinfo-warning-pornography!/Ignis_Ardens/index.php?showtopic=10189&st=25
I can understand you trying to put a brave face on it, but it's another embarrassing miscalculation by the Williamson Camp.
If you're going to appeal you first need an idea of what support you have; at least have a fighting chance of winning.
Before this the Williamson Camp line was +Fellay did not have the authority. He was behaving like a dictator and poor +Williamson was humbly suffering in silence this gross injustice.
But now the General Chapter has spoken. It has overwhelmingly supported +Fellay's action. It is saying +Fellay was right. It is saying to +Williamson: "we don't want you here". It is saying: "We don't support the Williamson Camp's action of leaking of confidential docuмents, calls to rebel, demanding the overthrow of the SG etc.".
So after this and that farcical "open letter" - with it's fraudulent names (which now include Modernists!) - what's the next tactic? Try and turn the Canterbury pilgrimage into a political rally?
The "Williamson Camp" is the camp of Archbishop Lefebvre and real Catholic resistance. Let Henry V and De Lallo have their moment.
Those who voted against Bishop Williamson should be embarrassed and ashamed for doing so.They will have to answer for it on the day of judgement.
The Canterbury Pilgrimage needs to be a show of strength in support of Bishop Williamson.
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The priests who voted against the Bishop need to be confronted and asked why they voted to exclude the one chosen by Archbishop Lefebvre.
Of course we shouldn't forget the massive support the Bishop has.Support from clerics and laity. Religious sisters and brothers across the world.
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SSPX.org indicated there were four priests from the US district. Our two French leaders + Fr. Post + ______. Does anyone know who the fourth would be?
Fr. Jaques Emily is the resident retreat master at Los Gatos, CA, USA. He's a very
fine priest. I can't say for sure, but I can't imagine him voting against having
+Williamson attend the GC.
Three French priests to "represent" the USA, which is one of the two largest Districts!
Apart from Fr. Post, how many real Americans were members of the SSPX General Chapter?
Would the fourth be Father Griego? He is a native of New Mexico, but currently rector of Holy Cross Seminary in Australia.
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quote]When the split which Bishop Fellay has knowingly fomented happens, it will become clear who and who should not be trusted with the spiritual welfare of souls.
[/quote]
One can hardly trust the clerics who voted to exclude the Bishop. As I said in the previous post, they need to be challenged directly as to why they voted to exclude Bishop Williamson. To exclude him is to betray Archbishop Lefebvre. Perhaps these clerics want a neo SSPX?
Lines of faithful formed in Ireland when there was a threat to expel him in the past. Poor Fr Loschi at the time was left ashen faced. Faithful formed a line to speak with the priest. Others were able to phone the priory and outline their objection to the disgraceful treatment of the Bishop.
I have no doubt there will be strong opposition to this latest "stabbing in the back" of the Bishop.
Pryor, Henry V, De Lallo are no doubt delighted and having a great laugh but Bishop Williamson is a better man than those three and others any day.
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But now the General Chapter has spoken. It has overwhelmingly supported +Fellay's action. It is saying +Fellay was right. It is saying to +Williamson: "we don't want you here". It is saying: "We don't support the Williamson Camp's action of leaking of confidential docuмents, calls to rebel, demanding the overthrow of the SG etc.".
So after this and that farcical "open letter" - with it's fraudulent names (which now include Modernists!) - what's the next tactic? Try and turn the Canterbury pilgrimage into a political rally?
What goes round comes round. These Fellay followers will end up betrayed and squashed in the same way they did to Bishop Williamson. Betrayed by their own, and by their new superiors in Rome, just like all the other traditional communities before them.
Fellay "SSPX", a bride that walked over her friends to marry a seven times divorced man. They think they are different than the other 6 brides that fell before them. They'll fall just like the rest.
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SSPX.org indicated there were four priests from the US district. Our two French leaders + Fr. Post + ______. Does anyone know who the fourth would be?
Fr. Jaques Emily is the resident retreat master at Los Gatos, CA, USA. He's a very
fine priest. I can't say for sure, but I can't imagine him voting against having
+Williamson attend the GC.
Three French priests to "represent" the USA, which is one of the two largest Districts!
Apart from Fr. Post, how many real Americans were members of the SSPX General Chapter?
Would the fourth be Father Griego? He is a native of New Mexico, but currently rector of Holy Cross Seminary in Australia.
I read somewhere that seminary rectors were supposed to be part of the General Chapter.
I didn't know Father Griego was an American, but Father Post is one of the oldest priests, so he would have been there. I wonder if there were any other Americans.
No capitulation without representation might be a good motto! :sign-surrender:
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SSPX.org indicated there were four priests from the US district. Our two French leaders + Fr. Post + ______. Does anyone know who the fourth would be?
Fr. Jaques Emily is the resident retreat master at Los Gatos, CA, USA. He's a very
fine priest. I can't say for sure, but I can't imagine him voting against having
+Williamson attend the GC.
Three French priests to "represent" the USA, which is one of the two largest Districts!
Apart from Fr. Post, how many real Americans were members of the SSPX General Chapter?
Would the fourth be Father Griego? He is a native of New Mexico, but currently rector of Holy Cross Seminary in Australia.
I read somewhere that seminary rectors were supposed to be part of the General Chapter.
I didn't know Father Griego was an American, but Father Post is one of the oldest priests, so he would have been there. I wonder if there were any other Americans.
No capitulation without representation might be a good motto! :sign-surrender:
Yes, Fr. Griego is an American. I read somewhere, forgive me I can't recall where, that he is present at the General Chapter.
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No capitulation without representation might be a good motto! :sign-surrender:
There's no problem with Americanism in traditional circles....
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If supreme happiness lies in union with God, and the Faith is the only means of securing this, than I must perforce believe that Catholic Tradition is the most important thing on earth and in heaven.
You couldn't have said it better: It is vital for everyone on this earth, Catholic and non-Catholic alike, that Catholic Tradition continues, even if only here and there. Of course, we have been told that it will, but that the number will be very small in the end. Kyrie eleison. :pray:
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If supreme happiness lies in union with God, and the Faith is the only means of securing this, than I must perforce believe that Catholic Tradition is the most important thing on earth and in heaven.
You couldn't have said it better: It is vital for everyone on this earth, Catholic and non-Catholic alike, that Catholic Tradition continues, even if only here and there. Of course, we have been told that it will, but that the number will be very small in the end. Kyrie eleison. :pray:
I remember good Catholics from long ago who would have been deeply hurt if
they had known that we would be in the state we are in today. They might have
changed their ways back then. They might have become more outspoken
against the errors of the day, which were creeping in with small steps.
I knew one woman, for example, who was a generally very devout Catholic,
and she went to daily Mass, prayed the family rosary every day, kept her
children going to confession frequently and receiving Holy Communion. But
when the new mass came along, she didn't fight it. She was suckered in
because she liked to get up there and use the microphone. She wanted to be
involved in the liturgy. She wanted to wear pant suits at Mass. She didn't like
having to wear a veil.
But now, I think that if she had then been able to see what was to come after
50 years of this, that perhaps she would have changed her ways. I'd like to think
she would have, that is.
And this applies to us today. We see Bishop Williamson excluded, and we have to
wonder: what will be the long term effect of this? How are Catholics who do not
care whether he is excluded contributing to the demise of the SSPX? Does this
lack of concern hasten the abolition of Tradition in the world?
It seems to me that it does. Tradition is torn down one brick at a time, in the main.
We see some great strides, like under the leadership of Paul VI of infalicitous
memory. But most of the trend consists in little moves, frequent, little moves, like
keeping H.E. out of the GC. That probably seems more like a disaster to H.E.
himself, but for us, we'll only know the disaster when it shows up by way of the
effects of a Chapter meeting that was impoverished by his absence.
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SSPX.org indicated there were four priests from the US district. Our two French leaders + Fr. Post + ______. Does anyone know who the fourth would be?
Fr. Jaques Emily is the resident retreat master at Los Gatos, CA, USA. He's a very
fine priest. I can't say for sure, but I can't imagine him voting against having
+Williamson attend the GC.
Three French priests to "represent" the USA, which is one of the two largest Districts!
Apart from Fr. Post, how many real Americans were members of the SSPX General Chapter?
Would the fourth be Father Griego? He is a native of New Mexico, but currently rector of Holy Cross Seminary in Australia.
I read somewhere that seminary rectors were supposed to be part of the General Chapter.
I didn't know Father Griego was an American, but Father Post is one of the oldest priests, so he would have been there. I wonder if there were any other Americans.
No capitulation without representation might be a good motto! :sign-surrender:
Yes, Fr. Griego is an American. I read somewhere, forgive me I can't recall where, that he is present at the General Chapter.
I know Fr. Griego was recently in the US and was headed to Econe after.
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With regard to the exclusion of Mgr Williamson, can anyone actually state any VALID reasons for this? Let me see, yes, he publishes his regular letters 'Eleison Comments', so what's wrong with that? As a bishop it is his duty to reach out to his flock and write about the faith, what is right and what is wrong. He has been against an agreement with Rome and has published numerous articles, including in Eleison Comments, as to why, and always based on Tradition and faithful to the writings and teachings of Mgr Lefebvre. True, he has also made statements which are at odds with neo-Vatican statements which purport to 're-instate' the Jєωs... ahem., he has made his 'personal views' on the h0Ɩ0cαųst, and 9/11, but those are personal and not related to traditional teaching. So... my friends, do please tell me why so many priests called for his exclusion? On what basis? Surely not because he disobeyed the Superior General :fryingpan:!!!
But, surely those priests, with their 7-year formation can tell the difference between what is and what is not the legal jurisdiction of the Sup.Gen.??? So, why? Surely not because they were personally appointed by Mgr Fellay and feel they owe him? :shocked:
I, for one, am bemused... :confused1:
Oh, well, keep up the good work Mgr Williamson :whistleblower:
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Faber has posted this on Ignis Ardens.
http://cathinfo-warning-pornography!/Ignis_Ardens/index.php?showtopic=10202
Open Letter to Msgr. Williamson, Faithful write to +W. Please sign!
Open Letter to Msgr. Williamson by some faithful published by SPES - Seminário Permanente de Estudos Sociopolíticos Santo Tomás de Aquino, friends of Dom Tomás de Aquino, Prior of Mosteiro da Santa Cruz, Nova Friburgo RJ, Brazil.
Carta Aberta a Dom Richard Williamson (Portugues)
Carta abierta a Monseñor Richard Williamson (Spanish)
Offener Brief an Msgr. Richard Williamson (German)
Hopefully someone can add an english translation and post it here and mail it to spessantotomas[at]gmail.com. The letter can be signed via mail to spessantotomas[at]gmail.com.
http://www.spessantotomas.blogspot.ie/
Open Letter to Msgr. Richard Williamson
Most Reverend Excellency,
With this letter we would like to show you our support in these moments when you have been unfairly and unlawfully excluded from the general chapter of the Society.
We do not know what decisions have been reached in the chapter. Perhaps we will see the miracle of the deposition of Bishop Fellay, perhaps the Society can be rebuilt from the foundations, for we know that those who are in command have destroyed it. But it is most probable that the authorities remain in power and are proceeding to the expulsion of bishops, priests and laymen who have shown their disagreement with the behavior of their superiors.
If this is the case, Your Lordship, you can count on us. We are no more than a few believers concerned for the fate that the Society will suffer, but believe that we are ready to support you and all the priests and bishops who have valiantly decided to raise their voices against the politics being carried on by the superiors.
We, the faithful, have had enough of the manner in which the authorities lie to us; we have had enough of the secrecy that they practice. We want a return to the days when the Society was completely transparent, when they spoke clearly to us, when they said that it does not matter if we are excommunicated from this church, which is not the Catholic Church, when everyone, priests, bishops, and superiors, spoke to us in the same way. They told us that the Second Vatican Council is intrinsically perverse, and that the conciliar magisterium can not be accepted; they warned us that we ought to stay far away from the groups that have been absorbed by Rome, such as the Fraternity of St. Peter, Campos, the IBP, etc. Therefore, invoking these same teachings and warnings, we, the faithful, ought to flee the Society, if it follows the same path.
We do not want the Rosary crusades to be used for the purpose of deception; we do not want to hear tendentious statements and interviews, meant to deceive us. We believers have decided that it is ENOUGH, we will not be led by wolves, for they are leading us to the slaughterhouse.
For these reasons, we support you, in you we continue to see the teachings of the Church of all time, which Archbishop Lefebvre and the Society have always taught us; we thank you and our Lord, who has sent us a Good Shepherd who looks after his sheep.
We depend on you, because we know how much you have fought tirelessly for Tradition, for the Society, for the kingdom of Christ on earth. You have handed on what you have received.
May God our Lord and His Most Holy Mother protect you and help you in the great battle which is only now beginning.
In Christ the King and the Mary Most Holy:
R.P. Ernesto Cardozo
Carlos Nougué –Brasil
Ana de Valle –México
Rosa Nougué –Brasil
Gabriela De Valle –México
Oscar Di Marco –Argentina
Jerónimo Zoto –Guatemala
Luciano P-V
Axel Alvarez Frati –Argentina
Evandro Santana Pereira –Brasil
Leonardo Maciel –Brasil
Andrea Patrícia Ferreira –Brasil
Ulisses Ricardo Gomes –Brasil
Giovana Alves da Cunha Gomes –Brasil
Davi Marques da Cunha Gomes –Brasil
Jamile Xavier –Brasil
André Xavier –Brasil
Othon Souto Campos –Brasil
Marcela Oliveira –Brasil
Diego Rivera –Espanha
Eugênio Mendes de Souza Lima –Brasil
Aline Soares –Brasil
Isaac Monteiro Segundo –Brasil
Burkhard Strauss –Brasil
Marion Kurtz Strauss –Brasil
Luiz Paulo de Alcântara –Brasil
Adriana Delazari Zamprogno –Brasil
Bartolomeu Zamprogno –Brasil
Giovanna Maria de Melo Machado –Brasil
Helga dalla Líbera Oliveira –Brasil
Mateus Germano Moreira Frota Tibúrcio –Brasil
Jorge Feitoza –Brasil
Edivaldo G. Pinto Júnior –Brasil
Benoît Boucher –Canadá
John Sullivan – United States
…
spessantotomas@gmail.com
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In addition to signing the Open Letter to +Williamson, I'm recommending to my
friends that we use the links in the Eleison Comments email to send H.E. a
donation.
I know some who have been sending their support to Winona for many years, and
they had thought that it is going to +Williamson! I was surprised to hear this, for he
was sent to Argentina many years ago, and Fr. Yves LeRoux took over in Winona
as Rector. This shows how slowly things happen in the minds of Catholics.
So get out your EC email and use the instructions there to "DONATE" and I'm sure
that +Williamson will be appreciative of that!!
+God Bless!
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There are several English translations from other languages on IA: German, French, Spanish and Portuguese. Here is the Spanish one. It seems pretty good:
hollingsworth
Posted: Jul 15 2012, 02:11 AM
Seraph
Group: Members
Posts: 2109
Member No.: 1494
Joined: 29-November 10
Here's another translation from the Spanish. It's kind of a free translation, but catches the essence:
An open letter to Msgr. Richard Williamson
Most Reverend Excellency:
By means of this letter we wish to demonstrate to you our support at this moment in time when you have been unjustly, and against your rights, excluded from the General Chapter of the the SSPX.
We don’t know what decisions were made at the Chapter. Perhaps, we will see the miracle of Msgr. Fellay’s deposition (so that) the Society can be rebuilt from the foundations, since we know that those in command have made a shambles of it.
But most probably, the (present) authorities will remain in power, (then) will proceed toward the expulsion of member bishops, priests and laity who have expressed disagreement with the behavior of their superiors.
In that case, esteemed Msgr, you can count on us. We are just several faithful ones who are worried about the the Society’s future and (the course it is pursuing), but you may believe that we are (ready) and disposed to help you, (and to help) all the other priests and bishops who have bravely determined to raise a voice against the politics (being) carried out by the leaders.
We the faithful are tired of the way in which the authorities lie to us. We’re tired of the the secretiveness they practice. We desire to return to those times in which the Society was totally transparent, when we were spoken to clearly, when they told us that it didn’t matter that we were excommunicated from that church which is not the Catholic Church, when everyone, priests, bishops and (sspx) authorities, spoke to us in the same way. They explained to us that the V2 (was) intrinsically evil, that the Conciliar Magisterium could not be accepted. They warned us that we ought to distance ourselves from all those groups which had been absorbed by Rome, like the FSSP, Campos, IBP, etc. Therefore, invoking those same teachings and warnings, we the faithful ought to flee from the Society if it follows the same path (as these others.)
We no longer want Rosary Crusades to be used to deceive (us); we no longer want to listen to tendentious speeches and interviews which are meant (only to) deceive. We, the faithful, say Enough! We don’t want to be guided by wolves who lead us to the slaughter.
For all of this, we support you. In you we continue to see the teachings of the Church of all time, the teaching of Msgr. Lefebvre and what the Society (always used to) teach us. For all of this we give thanks, to you and to Our Lord, Who has sent to us a good shepherd who watches over the sheep.
We stick to you because we know that you have struggled tirelessly for the (preservation) of Tradition, for the Society, and for the Reign of Christ on earth.
You have transmitted to us what you received.
That God Our Lord and His Most Holy Mother preserve and help you in the great battle which has just begun.
In Christ the King and the Most Holy Mary,
(The undersigned)