Author Topic: Message of Father Ortiz  (Read 2261 times)

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Offline Machabees

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Message of Father Ortiz
« on: June 05, 2013, 02:08:42 PM »
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  • 04/29/2013
     
    Message of Father Ortiz:

    Dear Faithful,

    I take this opportunity to thank you all for your response and the excellent organization of Fr Joseph Pfeiffer's visit.

    Despite his busy schedule traveling everywhere around the world, Father immediately accepted my invitation to go to Australia to support you in the defense of the Catholic Faith.

    Your answer to this visit went beyond our expectations... because, a part from a few of you with whom I was in contact these last months, I didn't know that there were so many others behind! May God bless you for your courage in front of many obstacles and for your commitment to the Resistance.

    Father Pfeiffer told me that he was very much pleased and edified of what he saw in Australia. He was finally able to visit Sydney, Brisbane, Melbourne, Streaky Bay (SA) and Adelaide.

    Despite of the diversity of places and the different attendances he found in your country, Father saw always the same eager desire to remain faithful to the legacy of Archb. Lefebvre and to the founding principles of the Society of St Pius X.

    Now we know that Australia is another important front in the combat for what we have fought in the past years: to remain faithful to Tradition without compromising.

    Don't be afraid of reprisals from neo-SSPX pastors...

    Father Pfeiffer is planning to send regularly to Australia a Resistance priest, and I also want to be one of them.

    And as I celebrated a Mass for the success of this visit before, I will celebrate another one tomorrow to give thanks to Our Lord and His Holy Mother for its success.

    It's sad to see that some priests in the SSPX, in different degrees, are compromising with the sell-out set up by Bp. Fellay.

    So, the danger is not yet over, but on the contrary it's worsening. New documents came to light recently, like the DOCTRINAL PREAMBLE of April 15, 2012, carrying the proof that Bp Fellay has really gone too far in his concessions to the Modernist Rome concerning matters of doctrine.

    What we need to prove here is not that Bp Fellay has said heresies... but more subtly, that he's not condemning error being his duty to do so, and particularly condemning the most monstrous error in Church's history, Modernism.

    In this Doctrinal Preamble, he clearly refuses to condemn the main errors of Vatican II, he affirms the legitimacy of the Novus Ordo and finally accepts the New Canon Law.

    All these three elements, against which we have being fighting for some many years, are explicitly accepted in this document!

    Please find attached an excellent study on the Doctrinal Preamble, which I recommend you TO READ IT AND TO GIVE AROUND COPIES.

    We fear that something even worse will come to light very soon : the DOCTRINAL DECLARATION, which the last General Chapter (July 2012) asked Bp. Fellay to redact, after the rejection by Rome, for "political" reasons, of Bp. Fellay's Doctrinal Preamble in June.

    As you can see, the main issue in our combat is about FAITH.

    We have a double duty towards Faith: to profess it and to defend it.

    The defense is always characterized by the condemnation of errors, which is precisely what the leaders of the SSPX are not doing, as in the past.
    This is a characterized sin of omission.

    Remain "steadfast in the Faith" (St Peter).

    Keep united organizing some meetings in your houses, praying, deepening your faith, and most of all in mutual charity.

    God bless you all.

    Fr. Juan C. Ortiz

    http://www.archbishoplefebvre.com/1/archives/04-2013/1.html

    Offline Machabees

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    Message of Father Ortiz
    « Reply #1 on: June 05, 2013, 04:01:57 PM »
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  • Fr. Ortiz said,
    Quote
    ...Please find attached an excellent study on the Doctrinal Preamble, which I recommend you TO READ IT AND TO GIVE AROUND COPIES.


    This study is found on a new dedicated Thread, entitled: "Bishop Fellay's 2012 Doctrinal Preamble, exposed by Fr Ortiz"

    http://www.cathinfo.com/catholic.php?a=topic&t=25036#p0


    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Message of Father Ortiz
    « Reply #2 on: June 05, 2013, 04:27:26 PM »
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  • Fr. Ortiz said:

    "We fear that something even worse will come to light very soon : the DOCTRINAL DECLARATION, which the last General Chapter (July 2012) asked Bp. Fellay to redact, after the rejection by Rome, for "political" reasons, of Bp. Fellay's Doctrinal Preamble in June."

    Question:

    I am confused.

    Is Fr. Ortiz saying Bishop Fellay signed 2 documents?

    1) The April 15 doctrinal declaration (which has already been published), which was rejected by Rome in June;

    2) A still secret edited version of this document which took place at the July General Chapter, and subsequently re-submitted to Rome in July (which as yet has not been published)?

    3) And that this 2nd declaration will be worse than the 1st???

     :surprised:
    Romans 5:20 "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    -I retract any and all statements I have made that are incongruent with the True Faith, and apologize for ever having made them-

    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Message of Father Ortiz
    « Reply #3 on: June 05, 2013, 05:54:23 PM »
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  • Quote from: SeanJohnson
    Fr. Ortiz said:

    "We fear that something even worse will come to light very soon : the DOCTRINAL DECLARATION, which the last General Chapter (July 2012) asked Bp. Fellay to redact, after the rejection by Rome, for "political" reasons, of Bp. Fellay's Doctrinal Preamble in June."

    Question:

    I am confused.

    Is Fr. Ortiz saying Bishop Fellay signed 2 documents?

    1) The April 15 doctrinal declaration (which has already been published), which was rejected by Rome in June;

    2) A still secret edited version of this document which took place at the July General Chapter, and subsequently re-submitted to Rome in July (which as yet has not been published)?

    3) And that this 2nd declaration will be worse than the 1st???

     :surprised:


    Can anyone confirm with Fr Ortiz that this is what he intended to say?

    Does he have information or reason to believe such is the case?

    Or was he just wondering aloud whether such might be the case as a matter of idle speculation?

    The answer is critical because if factual that this is what happened, then i have a follow-up question/observation that will scare you out of your pants:

    It would mean we do not know Rome's response to this declaration amended at the general chapter!

    Or have i misunderstood Fr Ortiz completely?
    Romans 5:20 "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    -I retract any and all statements I have made that are incongruent with the True Faith, and apologize for ever having made them-

    Offline Frances

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    Message of Father Ortiz
    « Reply #4 on: June 05, 2013, 06:20:25 PM »
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  • Anyone remember the old ads for the "National Inquirer"?  "Inquiring Minds Want to Know!"
    Let's adapt that to "Inquiring Souls NEED to Know!"  The so-called 'Preamble' is bad enough; but the 'Declaration' is worse?  If it is indeed titled a "declaration" and is signed by Bishop Fellay without retraction, can there be any doubt that the contents are "officially" what the SSPX now believes?  What possible excuse can be made?  No amount of convoluted logic will be able to "explain it away."  
    We will soon see, but arguments will not convince those who have said in their hearts, "I've made up my mind.  Don't confuse me with the facts."  Is not such an attitude a step closer to the "sin against the Holy Ghost" and final impenitence?
    O.L. of Mt. Carmel, pray for us!
     St. Francis Xavier threw a Crucifix into the sea, at once calming the waves.  Upon reaching the shore, the Crucifix was returned to him by a crab with a curious cross pattern on its shell.  


    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Message of Father Ortiz
    « Reply #5 on: June 05, 2013, 06:43:38 PM »
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  • What is certain:

    1) Rome requires Bishop Fellay to sign a secret doctrinal preamble;

    2) Bishop Fellay refuses, and instead sends a counter-offer (I.e., the April 15 doctrinal declaration);

    3) In June, Rome rejects Bishop Fellay's scandalous doctrinal declaration, and insists on full acceptance of Vatican 2, etc.

    What is questionable:

    4) Fr Ortiz seems to say that the General Chapter, convening shortly after this in July, came up with a 2nd doctrinal declaration?

    5) Which must be even worse than the 1st doctrinal declaration (or why waste the time to send it to Rome?);

    6) if there was a 2nd doctrinal declaration, what was Rome's answer to it?



    Romans 5:20 "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    -I retract any and all statements I have made that are incongruent with the True Faith, and apologize for ever having made them-

    Offline InDominoSperavi

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    Message of Father Ortiz
    « Reply #6 on: June 06, 2013, 01:01:08 AM »
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  • Good questions, SeanJohnson. It's worth doing a little inquiry. I'll try. If I get information, I come back.

    Offline Telesphorus

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    Message of Father Ortiz
    « Reply #7 on: June 06, 2013, 01:08:22 AM »
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  • RECALL IT WAS SAID (by Father Rostand) THAT THIS PREAMBLE WAS NOT THE BUSINESS OF THE LAITY.

    sellouts occur in the shade and the dark

    "The faithful have a legal right to know that the priests whom they are addressed are not the communion of a counterfeit Church, Pentecostal scalable and syncretistic. "(Open Letter to His Eminence Cardinal Gantin, Prefect of the Congregation for Bishops. Ecône, July 6, 1988 Fideliter No. 64. July-August 1988, pages 11-12.)


    Offline donkath

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    Message of Father Ortiz
    « Reply #8 on: June 06, 2013, 02:17:33 AM »
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  • Quote from: Machabees
    04/29/2013
     
    Message of Father Ortiz:

    Dear Faithful,

    I take this opportunity to thank you all for your response and the excellent organization of Fr Joseph Pfeiffer's visit.

    Despite his busy schedule traveling everywhere around the world, Father immediately accepted my invitation to go to Australia to support you in the defense of the Catholic Faith.

    Your answer to this visit went beyond our expectations... because, a part from a few of you with whom I was in contact these last months, I didn't know that there were so many others behind! May God bless you for your courage in front of many obstacles and for your commitment to the Resistance.

    Father Pfeiffer told me that he was very much pleased and edified of what he saw in Australia. He was finally able to visit Sydney, Brisbane, Melbourne, Streaky Bay (SA) and Adelaide.

    Despite of the diversity of places and the different attendances he found in your country, Father saw always the same eager desire to remain faithful to the legacy of Archb. Lefebvre and to the founding principles of the Society of St Pius X.

    Now we know that Australia is another important front in the combat for what we have fought in the past years: to remain faithful to Tradition without compromising.

    Don't be afraid of reprisals from neo-SSPX pastors...

    Father Pfeiffer is planning to send regularly to Australia a Resistance priest, and I also want to be one of them.

    And as I celebrated a Mass for the success of this visit before, I will celebrate another one tomorrow to give thanks to Our Lord and His Holy Mother for its success.

    It's sad to see that some priests in the SSPX, in different degrees, are compromising with the sell-out set up by Bp. Fellay.

    So, the danger is not yet over, but on the contrary it's worsening. New documents came to light recently, like the DOCTRINAL PREAMBLE of April 15, 2012, carrying the proof that Bp Fellay has really gone too far in his concessions to the Modernist Rome concerning matters of doctrine.

    What we need to prove here is not that Bp Fellay has said heresies... but more subtly, that he's not condemning error being his duty to do so, and particularly condemning the most monstrous error in Church's history, Modernism.

    In this Doctrinal Preamble, he clearly refuses to condemn the main errors of Vatican II, he affirms the legitimacy of the Novus Ordo and finally accepts the New Canon Law.

    All these three elements, against which we have being fighting for some many years, are explicitly accepted in this document!

    Please find attached an excellent study on the Doctrinal Preamble, which I recommend you TO READ IT AND TO GIVE AROUND COPIES.

    We fear that something even worse will come to light very soon : the DOCTRINAL DECLARATION, which the last General Chapter (July 2012) asked Bp. Fellay to redact, after the rejection by Rome, for "political" reasons, of Bp. Fellay's Doctrinal Preamble in June.

    As you can see, the main issue in our combat is about FAITH.

    We have a double duty towards Faith: to profess it and to defend it.

    The defense is always characterized by the condemnation of errors, which is precisely what the leaders of the SSPX are not doing, as in the past.
    This is a characterized sin of omission.

    Remain "steadfast in the Faith" (St Peter).

    Keep united organizing some meetings in your houses, praying, deepening your faith, and most of all in mutual charity.

    God bless you all.

    Fr. Juan C. Ortiz

    http://www.archbishoplefebvre.com/1/archives/04-2013/1.html


    I gave an account about a month ago about Father Pfeiffer's visit to Pakenham, Australia.  About thirty people from Tynong attended.  Since then I have kept in touch with about six people sending them updates such as this one from Fr. Ortiz.
    We think Father Chazel might be coming soon.  We need to ask him a couple of very important questions.  Most SSPXers here are paralysed - too afraid to talk about the situation.   Anyway, this is just a small update taken on my own initiative.
    Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and behold I am with you all days, even to the consummation of the world.

    Offline Gail

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    Message of Father Ortiz
    « Reply #9 on: June 06, 2013, 03:24:06 AM »
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  • Donkath,

    Fr. Chazal arrives in Sydney on Thursday 24th June, 2013. The itinerary will be similar to Fr Pfeiffer's in April.

    Offline Gail

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    Message of Father Ortiz
    « Reply #10 on: June 06, 2013, 03:29:39 AM »
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  • Donkath,

     Fr. Chazal arrives in Sydney on Thursday 24th June, 2013. The itinerary will be similar to Fr Pfeiffer's in April

    Sorry Donkath,

    SHOULD READ THURSDAY 27TH JUNE, 2012


    Offline donkath

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    Message of Father Ortiz
    « Reply #11 on: June 06, 2013, 05:10:14 AM »
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  • Quote from: Gail
    Donkath,

     Fr. Chazal arrives in Sydney on Thursday 24th June, 2013. The itinerary will be similar to Fr Pfeiffer's in April

    Sorry Donkath,

    SHOULD READ THURSDAY 27TH JUNE, 2012


    Thank you Gail will pass it on.
    Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and behold I am with you all days, even to the consummation of the world.

    Offline InDominoSperavi

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    Message of Father Ortiz
    « Reply #12 on: June 06, 2013, 09:09:56 AM »
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  • I got an answer from Fr Ortiz. There is no other preambule written. He wanted to say that the first preambule, written in 2011 was better than the one written on 15th April 2012. Fr Ortiz thought during a while that there was a third document, because of a misunderstanding due to several names : "doctrinal declaration" and "doctrinal preambule". But there none.

    Offline InDominoSperavi

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    Message of Father Ortiz
    « Reply #13 on: June 06, 2013, 09:18:00 AM »
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  • I correct my last sentence : but there is no other preambule or declaration.

    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Message of Father Ortiz
    « Reply #14 on: June 07, 2013, 01:49:24 AM »
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  • .


    Quote from: In the OP it
    ... Please find attached an excellent study on the Doctrinal Preamble, which I recommend you TO READ IT AND TO GIVE AROUND COPIES.




    It's really important to circulate these copies because people will not read
    them if you just give them a link to go to.  It takes too much trouble to
    read and type in a URL address.  You can send a link by e-mail and maybe
    that will work, but handing them a paper copy is about the surest way you
    have that they might read it.  Copy in hand is now and always has been
    the most powerful means of spreading the news.  That's why newspapers
    exist, you know.  That's why magazines are in business.



    Quote
    We fear that something even worse will come to light very soon : the DOCTRINAL DECLARATION, which the last General Chapter (July 2012) asked Bp. Fellay to redact, after the rejection by Rome, for "political" reasons, of Bp. Fellay's Doctrinal Preamble in June.




    The thing you're fearing would show up one day has shown up. read the
    new thread that BrJoseph started today. It's not a document, but
    a contract with a branding company -- some pagans who have
    redefined what the Society is, for a FEE$$$$.



    Quote
    As you can see, the main issue in our combat is about FAITH.

    We have a double duty towards Faith: to profess it and to defend it.

    The defense is always characterized by the condemnation of errors, which is precisely what the leaders of the SSPX are not doing, as in the past.
    This is a characterized sin of omission.




    100% correct!  The condemnation of error was the power of the Keys that
    Pope John XXIII hung up on a coat hook in 1962 in his M.R.S. -- and now,
    the Society has bought into the same program, with the BRANDING OF
    THE SSPX.


    See the thread linked above.



    Quote
    Remain "steadfast in the Faith" (St Peter).

    Keep united organizing some meetings in your houses, praying, deepening your faith, and most of all in mutual charity.

    God bless you all.

    Fr. Juan C. Ortiz

    http://www.archbishoplefebvre.com/1/archives/04-2013/1.html







    Quote from: InDominoSperavi
    I got an answer from Fr Ortiz. There is no other preambule written. He wanted to say that the first preambule, written in 2011 was better than the one written on 15th April 2012. Fr Ortiz thought during a while that there was a third document, because of a misunderstanding due to several names : "doctrinal declaration" and "doctrinal preambule". But there none.


    How many times have I said that the name "preamble" should not be
    used for the AFD, the Doctrinal Declaration?  It only leads to confusion.

    So here is proof that I was right.  And we are going to see a lot more
    confusion as different groups start talking about these things, and one
    group is going to presume the other group said this when they meant
    that and so on and so forth.  All of this could be avoided if a unique
    name was used, and AFD is a stroke of genius -- thanks to Fr. Chazal.

    When one of your own has a great idea you should use it.  


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