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Author Topic: Menzingen Suspends Relations with Dominicans of Avrille  (Read 9898 times)

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Offline JPaul

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Menzingen Suspends Relations with Dominicans of Avrille
« Reply #15 on: May 16, 2014, 07:38:24 AM »
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  • I fear that the "loose association" model will simply continue to loosen until there is so little coherence that the minimally required structures will no longer exist.
    Without authority there can be no unity, and without unity, there is no power, without power, Tradition cannot be saved from the relentless predators that pursue it.
    Unshakable trust in one's brethren is a fundamental component of the Christian life. That seems to have been lost in our time as this story and commentary demonstrate.  It appears that it has become a commodity to some, a form of lucre, useful in trading and advancement in the secular marketplace of "religion".


    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Menzingen Suspends Relations with Dominicans of Avrille
    « Reply #16 on: May 16, 2014, 08:19:33 AM »
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  • I also disagree with the "loose association" strategy.

    Fragmentation is unavoidable in that schema.

    Yes, it certainly prevents wholesale loss, should a monolithic organization lose its way.

    But the consequences seem to dissolve the Church and Faith much more rapidly than creeping liberalism.

    Furthermore,  as liberalism advances, it alerts clergy and faithful along the way, as the rise of the Resistance demonstrates (Which insures that all will not be lost).

    And if liberalization or infiltration should corrupt the apostolate 100 times, you could rebuild 100 times.

    But a loose association seems to me to waive the white flag, and take a completely defensive posture towards the crisis.

    No more being on the offensive to restore the Church; from now on, in this schema, we are only seeking to protect what we have.

    It seems to replace a church militant with a church awaiting the final judgment and persecution (and by eliminating heirarchy, unity, and an advancing traditionalism, seems to present a self - fulfilling prophecy which will produce the end this posture was designed to be a reaction to).

    To me, it appears to be, unwittingly,  a guarantee for the gradual dissolution of tradition, under the pretext of saving the same.
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."


    Offline Ecclesia Militans

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    Menzingen Suspends Relations with Dominicans of Avrille
    « Reply #17 on: May 16, 2014, 10:49:43 AM »
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  • Quote from: SeanJohnson
    I also disagree with the "loose association" strategy.

    This "loose association" stuff is creepy.  We need a Bishop that wants to lead.

    Offline JPaul

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    Menzingen Suspends Relations with Dominicans of Avrille
    « Reply #18 on: May 16, 2014, 11:22:15 AM »
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  • Sean Johnson
    Quote
    It seems to replace a church militant with a church awaiting ....


    An interesting but true observation. This is the state of Tradition today.
    Avoidance and inaction.

    Offline ancien regime

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    Menzingen Suspends Relations with Dominicans of Avrille
    « Reply #19 on: May 16, 2014, 12:25:42 PM »
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  • The Dominicans have responded via a communique that showed up on France Fidele. Here it is in the original French and my translation:

    Voici quelques précisions et rectificatifs.

    La « conférence publique » dont il est question a eu lieu dans une salle privée de l’hôtellerie du couvent, elle n’a fait l’objet d’aucune publicité. L’« Adresse aux fidèles » ayant été lue le 19 janvier après le sermon, le père prieur a invité les fidèles qui désiraient des explications à une réunion informelle.

    Les propos du père prieur ont été enregistrés de manière clandestine, l’enregistrement, de qualité médiocre, a été envoyé à Menzingen et retranscrit assez approximativement. Après plusieurs réclamations, le père prieur a enfin reçu de Menzingen une copie de cet enregistrement, le jour même (9 mai) où la condamnation a été promulguée par Suresnes, ne laissant pas la possibilité de se défendre ni même de s’expliquer.

    Dire que les autorités de la Fraternité ont été « vivement attaquées » et « qu’un appel à résister ouvertement à Mgr Fellay a été lancé », parler de « propos outranciers » sont des exagérations manifestes, voire des calomnies.
    La conférence, qui a duré 33 minutes (+ 21 minutes de questions), a consisté principalement à commenter quelques docuмent publics, dont la fameuse « déclaration doctrinale » de Mgr Fellay du 15 avril 2012 envoyée au cardinal Levada, déclaration retirée mais non rétractée, texte qui se trouve publié sur le site de la Fraternité en France et qui contient de graves erreurs et ambigüités doctrinales.

    Nous nous étonnons qu’aucune réponse ne soit apportée sur le fond de la question (les erreurs doctrinales de Mgr Fellay jamais rétractées), mais que la seule réponse soit une condamnation extrêmement lourde (outre l’annulation de toutes les activités prévues avec la Fraternité, nous sommes privés d’ordinations et de saintes huiles), tandis que les autorités modernistes de Rome et ceux qui prônent le ralliement à la Rome conciliaire sont traités avec plus de douceur, voire promus à des postes importants.

     
    Here are several clarifications and corrections:

    The “public conference” referred to took place in a private room in the hostelry of the friary, it had not been advertised. The “Appeal to the Faithful” had been read aloud on January 19 after the sermon, Father Prior invited the faithful who wished for further explanation to an informal meeting.

    Father Prior’s statements had been secretly recorded, the recording, of poor quality, was sent to Menzingen and rather roughly transcribed. After several complaints, Father Prior finally received a copy of the recording from Menzingen on the same day (9 May) where the condemnation was promulgated by Suresnes, leaving no opportunity us to defend ourselves or even to issue an explanation.

    To say that the authorities of the Society were “sharply attacked” and “that an appeal to openly resist Bishop Fellay was launched,” to speak of “outrageous statements” are obvious exaggerations, even slander.

    The conference, which lasted 33 minutes (+ 21 minutes for questions), primarily consisted of comments on some public docuмents, including Bishop Fellay’s famous “doctrinal declaration” of 15 April 2012 sent to Cardinal Levada, a declaration that was withdrawn but not retracted, a text that has been made public and can be found on the website of the Society in France and which contains serious errors and doctrinal ambiguities.

    We are surprised that no response has been made on the merits of the question (the doctrinal errors of Bishop Fellay having never been retracted), but the only response has been a heavy-handed condemnation (in addition to the cancellation of all planned activities with the Society,  we are deprived of ordinations and holy oils),while the modernist Roman authorities and those who advocate rallying to conciliar Rome are treated with great gentleness, even promoted to prominent positions.


    Offline Domitilla

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    Menzingen Suspends Relations with Dominicans of Avrille
    « Reply #20 on: May 16, 2014, 01:14:43 PM »
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  • May God have mercy upon +Fellay and his misguided accomplices ...

     :pray: :pray: :pray:

    May our Blessed Mother, the Holy Archangels, and St. Thomas Aquinas, St. Vincent Ferrer and all the holy Dominicans protect, defend, and guide the Dominicans of Avrille ...

    Offline magdalena

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    Menzingen Suspends Relations with Dominicans of Avrille
    « Reply #21 on: May 17, 2014, 09:33:53 PM »
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  • Quote from: ancien regime
    The Dominicans have responded via a communique that showed up on France Fidele. Here it is in the original French and my translation:

    Voici quelques précisions et rectificatifs.

    La « conférence publique » dont il est question a eu lieu dans une salle privée de l’hôtellerie du couvent, elle n’a fait l’objet d’aucune publicité. L’« Adresse aux fidèles » ayant été lue le 19 janvier après le sermon, le père prieur a invité les fidèles qui désiraient des explications à une réunion informelle.

    Les propos du père prieur ont été enregistrés de manière clandestine, l’enregistrement, de qualité médiocre, a été envoyé à Menzingen et retranscrit assez approximativement. Après plusieurs réclamations, le père prieur a enfin reçu de Menzingen une copie de cet enregistrement, le jour même (9 mai) où la condamnation a été promulguée par Suresnes, ne laissant pas la possibilité de se défendre ni même de s’expliquer.

    Dire que les autorités de la Fraternité ont été « vivement attaquées » et « qu’un appel à résister ouvertement à Mgr Fellay a été lancé », parler de « propos outranciers » sont des exagérations manifestes, voire des calomnies.
    La conférence, qui a duré 33 minutes (+ 21 minutes de questions), a consisté principalement à commenter quelques docuмent publics, dont la fameuse « déclaration doctrinale » de Mgr Fellay du 15 avril 2012 envoyée au cardinal Levada, déclaration retirée mais non rétractée, texte qui se trouve publié sur le site de la Fraternité en France et qui contient de graves erreurs et ambigüités doctrinales.

    Nous nous étonnons qu’aucune réponse ne soit apportée sur le fond de la question (les erreurs doctrinales de Mgr Fellay jamais rétractées), mais que la seule réponse soit une condamnation extrêmement lourde (outre l’annulation de toutes les activités prévues avec la Fraternité, nous sommes privés d’ordinations et de saintes huiles), tandis que les autorités modernistes de Rome et ceux qui prônent le ralliement à la Rome conciliaire sont traités avec plus de douceur, voire promus à des postes importants.

     
    Here are several clarifications and corrections:

    The “public conference” referred to took place in a private room in the hostelry of the friary, it had not been advertised. The “Appeal to the Faithful” had been read aloud on January 19 after the sermon, Father Prior invited the faithful who wished for further explanation to an informal meeting.

    Father Prior’s statements had been secretly recorded, the recording, of poor quality, was sent to Menzingen and rather roughly transcribed. After several complaints, Father Prior finally received a copy of the recording from Menzingen on the same day (9 May) where the condemnation was promulgated by Suresnes, leaving no opportunity us to defend ourselves or even to issue an explanation.

    To say that the authorities of the Society were “sharply attacked” and “that an appeal to openly resist Bishop Fellay was launched,” to speak of “outrageous statements” are obvious exaggerations, even slander.

    The conference, which lasted 33 minutes (+ 21 minutes for questions), primarily consisted of comments on some public docuмents, including Bishop Fellay’s famous “doctrinal declaration” of 15 April 2012 sent to Cardinal Levada, a declaration that was withdrawn but not retracted, a text that has been made public and can be found on the website of the Society in France and which contains serious errors and doctrinal ambiguities.

    We are surprised that no response has been made on the merits of the question (the doctrinal errors of Bishop Fellay having never been retracted), but the only response has been a heavy-handed condemnation (in addition to the cancellation of all planned activities with the Society,  we are deprived of ordinations and holy oils),while the modernist Roman authorities and those who advocate rallying to conciliar Rome are treated with great gentleness, even promoted to prominent positions.


    Ah, the times we live in.  Our Lady of La Salette, pray for us.  
    But one thing is necessary. Mary hath chosen the best part, which shall not be taken away from her.
    Luke 10:42

    Offline magdalena

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    Menzingen Suspends Relations with Dominicans of Avrille
    « Reply #22 on: May 17, 2014, 10:00:36 PM »
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  • And our Lent goes on....  

    [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/embed/GBOaXhohJ3U[/youtube]
    But one thing is necessary. Mary hath chosen the best part, which shall not be taken away from her.
    Luke 10:42


    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Menzingen Suspends Relations with Dominicans of Avrille
    « Reply #23 on: May 17, 2014, 10:18:53 PM »
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  • Anyone know if there is an English-language translation of the latest issue of "La Sel de la Terre" by the Avrille Dominicans?

    Or, is there an English edition if you subscribe?

    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline magdalena

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    Menzingen Suspends Relations with Dominicans of Avrille
    « Reply #24 on: May 18, 2014, 05:36:34 AM »
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  • The Hymn: O Lady Blest of La Salette

    O Lady blest of La Salette--
     Take pity on our hapless state,
     And hearken to our cry!
     Thine own sweet voice in plaintive wail,
     As we walk through this tearful vale,
     Is heard reproachfully.

    In France, we're taught, thou didst appear,
     And through two children biding near,
     A warning didst convey--
     The arm of thine offended Son
     Thou couldst not hold, and heaven's frown
     Thou couldst no longer stay.

    The wrath of Jesus Christ would fall,
     So didst thou say, on us and all,
     For our iniquity:
     Thy warning is, that we repent,
     Or else a fatal punishment
     Will scourge us heavily.

    Then stay, O Virgin Mother, stay
     The doom impending, whilst we pray
     To thy most clement Son:
     And as on earth our vows we make,
     Present them thou, for Jesus' sake,
     To God's eternal throne.

    One only God we'll ever serve,
     And from His truth we ne'er will swerve,
     The one unchanging faith:
     Our holy Church we know to be
     The sole and only Church, where we
     Can rest in life and death.

    Oh, may we never take again
     The holy Name of God in vain,
     Or His good Spirit grieve!
     All cursing, swearing, blasphemy
     Be far from us: and holily
     May we forever live!

    The Sunday and all holidays,
     We promise we will spend in praise
     Of our much injured God.
     Our joy shall be our Mass to hear,
     And to the Sacraments draw near,
     Those wells of Christ's own blood.

    And when our priests the doctrines preach,
     Which God hath given them power to teach,
     We ne'er will absent be:
     The days of abstinence and fast,
     We'll strive to keep from first to last,
     And Holy Church obey.

    O Virgin Queen, in pity hear
     Thy children whilst we humbly dare
     These pious vows to make--
     What God and Holy Church command,
     On bended knee, with outstretched hand,
     We promise ne'er to break.

    O Lady blest of La Salette,
     Thy strength can hardly bear the weight
     Of Christ's uplifted arm:
     Still tarry, Mother, yet awhile--
     Our hearts to Jesus reconcile,
     And shield us from the storm.



    But one thing is necessary. Mary hath chosen the best part, which shall not be taken away from her.
    Luke 10:42

    Offline cantatedomino

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    Menzingen Suspends Relations with Dominicans of Avrille
    « Reply #25 on: May 18, 2014, 07:14:29 AM »
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  • Quote
    "Using virtue and the love of God, and the abolition, in the name of virtue, of the indispensable means of formation and conservation, to blackmail the faithful into bending - that's modernism at its most basic. Modernism controls its victims in the name of obedience, thanks to the suspicion of pride which is cast on any criticism of their reforms, in the name of respect for the Pope, in the name of missionary zeal, of charity, and of unity."
    (Fr. Calmel, Letter of 8th August, 1973)


    Modernism is communism inside the structures of the Church.



    Offline ancien regime

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    Menzingen Suspends Relations with Dominicans of Avrille
    « Reply #26 on: May 18, 2014, 08:36:05 AM »
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  • Quote from: SeanJohnson
    Anyone know if there is an English-language translation of the latest issue of "La Sel de la Terre" by the Avrille Dominicans?

    Or, is there an English edition if you subscribe?



    Unfortunately, there is not an English language version of Le Sel de la Terre.

    I have made the suggestion and will continue to request it. I have recently taken an early retirement of sorts and should have much more time to devote to translation work. I have a backlog right now, but hope to clear that out fairly soon.