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Author Topic: Loud "Active Participation - How They Emptied the Churches of Men  (Read 3485 times)

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Offline Last Tradhican

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Loud "Active Participation - How They Emptied the Churches of Men
« on: November 25, 2020, 10:29:32 AM »
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    • Insipid "inoffensive" sermons, loud  "active participation" in the mass,  that effeminacy  drove the men away from the mass. That is why less than 4% of the French go to mass, and of that percentage the vast majority are old women. No real man wants to go hear what they consider to be an inept man give a lecture (a sermon), nor to hear women screaming in their ears to where they can't even think. Real men come to hear sermons about how to live the faith like saints.

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    The Vatican II church - Assisting Souls to Hell Since 1962

    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Mat 24:24

    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: Loud "Active Participation - How They Emptied the Churches of Men
    « Reply #1 on: November 25, 2020, 07:33:04 PM »
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    • Two down votes? Maybe what I wrote was misunderstood?  Here it is again with further elaboration:

    Insipid "inoffensive" sermons, loud  "active participation" in the mass,  that effeminacy  is what drove the men away from the mass and the Church. That is why for example less than 4% of the French go to mass, and of that percentage the vast majority are elderly women. No real man wants to go hear what they consider to be an inept man give a lecture about nothing of importance (an insipid  sermon), nor to hear women screaming "and also with you" (Novus Ordo) or "et cuм spiritu tuo" (Latin Mass)  in their ears to where a man can't even think. Real men come to hear sermons about how to live the faith like saints and to meditate in the time-honored custom of individually-chosen silent prayers.
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    The Vatican II church - Assisting Souls to Hell Since 1962

    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Mat 24:24

    Offline andy

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    Re: Loud "Active Participation - How They Emptied the Churches of Men
    « Reply #2 on: November 25, 2020, 08:54:56 PM »
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    • Am I biased and blind, but most faithful shown right are the beginning are women https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqkqc2-iteQ  (more details in https://www.cathinfo.com/crisis-in-the-church/conditioning-faithful-for-use-of-vernacular-in-1941)
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    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: Loud "Active Participation - How They Emptied the Churches of Men
    « Reply #3 on: November 25, 2020, 09:36:52 PM »
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    • There are the two down votes again. Curious. What exactly do they object to? Likely we would have known by now if they were going to make a comment.
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    The Vatican II church - Assisting Souls to Hell Since 1962

    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Mat 24:24

    Offline ElAusente

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    Re: Loud "Active Participation - How They Emptied the Churches of Men
    « Reply #4 on: November 25, 2020, 10:05:23 PM »
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    • Do you have evidence to support your claim that bad sermons and active participation directly caused 4% Mass attendance in France?
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    Offline Nadir

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    Re: Loud "Active Participation - How They Emptied the Churches of Men
    « Reply #5 on: November 26, 2020, 12:31:45 AM »
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    • I gave you a thumbs down because you commented on your thumbs down. I always do that.
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    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: Loud "Active Participation - How They Emptied the Churches of Men
    « Reply #6 on: November 26, 2020, 07:31:05 AM »
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    • Quote from: ElAusente on November 25, 2020, 10:05:23 PM
    Do you have evidence to support your claim that bad sermons and active participation directly caused 4% Mass attendance in France?
    What man is attracted to insipid inoffensive sermons? What man is going to get up in the morning on Sunday and drive 1/2 hour to go listen to a lecture about nothing? Going to mass became irrelevant. Read about the Cure de Ars.

    As far as the aloud active participation chasing away the men. The Church in the USA did not have it till the early 1960's, prior to that time church attendance was around 80%,  and after 23%, that means 70% of the people stopped going.

    My evidence is empirical, the case of my greater family of over 300 people, the men stopped going, and will not go anymore for the reasons I have given in this thread. (insipid inoffensive sermons about nothing, going to mass became irrelevant, loud active participation by women, effeminacy.) Additional empirical evidence is practically all the men I have known my entire life in the USA and South America.

    BY the way, I could of just asked you the same question in reverse - Do you have evidence to support your claim that bad sermons increase mass attendance? Do you have evidence that aloud active participation increased mass attendance anywhere?
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    The Vatican II church - Assisting Souls to Hell Since 1962

    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Mat 24:24

    Offline Bonaventure

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    Re: Loud "Active Participation - How They Emptied the Churches of Men
    « Reply #7 on: November 26, 2020, 10:40:33 AM »
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    • Quote from: ElAusente on November 25, 2020, 10:05:23 PM
    Do you have evidence to support your claim that bad sermons and active participation directly caused 4% Mass attendance in France?


    Quote from: Last Tradhican on November 26, 2020, 07:31:05 AM
    What man is attracted to insipid inoffensive sermons? What man is going to get up in the morning on Sunday and drive 1/2 hour to go listen to a lecture about nothing? Going to mass became irrelevant. Read about the Cure de Ars.

    As far as the aloud active participation chasing away the men. The Church in the USA did not have it till the early 1960's, prior to that time church attendance was around 80%,  and after 23%, that means 70% of the people stopped going.

    My evidence is empirical, the case of my greater family of over 300 people, the men stopped going, and will not go anymore for the reasons I have given in this thread. (insipid inoffensive sermons about nothing, going to mass became irrelevant, loud active participation by women, effeminacy.) Additional empirical evidence is practically all the men I have known my entire life in the USA and South America.

    BY the way, I could of just asked you the same question in reverse - Do you have evidence to support your claim that bad sermons increase mass attendance? Do you have evidence that aloud active participation increased mass attendance anywhere?

    ^--- A very long way to say, "No."
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    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: Loud "Active Participation - How They Emptied the Churches of Men
    « Reply #8 on: November 26, 2020, 10:51:51 AM »
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    • Quote from: Bonaventure on November 26, 2020, 10:40:33 AM

    ^--- A very long way to say, "No."
    A very short way to avoid debating my answer. 

    So, you believe that insipid lectures attract men? You believe that the Novus Ordo aloud active participation attracts men? All the men in your greater family and all the men you know are not put off by the aloud active participation of the Novus Ordo and the insipid sermons?
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    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Mat 24:24

    Offline Bonaventure

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    Re: Loud "Active Participation - How They Emptied the Churches of Men
    « Reply #9 on: November 26, 2020, 11:11:11 AM »
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    • Quote from: Last Tradhican on November 26, 2020, 10:51:51 AM
    A very short way to avoid debating my answer.

    So, you believe that insipid lectures attract men? You believe that the Novus Ordo aloud active participation attracts men? All the men in your greater family and all the men you know are not put off by the aloud active participation of the Novus Ordo and the insipid sermons?

    I'll respond to the above by responding to a point raised in your OP:
    Quote from: Last Tradhican on November 25, 2020, 10:29:32 AM
    ... No real man wants to go hear what they consider to be an inept man give a lecture (a sermon), nor to hear women screaming in their ears to where they can't even think.

    I wold proffer that no "real man" would turn tail and run simply because of bad sermons and/or "women screaming in their ears."  Real men would tell those women to shut up.  In that regard, I object to how you've posited the issue as lacking any foundation whatsoever, especially in the assertion that that is why France now only has an alleged 4% Mass attendance rate.  Mind you, I'm not asserting that the Novus Ordo Mass and/or women "screaming in their ears" had nothing to do with it, but if you think that every priest (heck, even a majority of priests) prior to 1965 had a natural gift of oratory and/or the ability to put together edge-of-your-seat sermons week after week, I think you're looking back on that portion of history with rose-colored glasses.
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    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: Loud "Active Participation - How They Emptied the Churches of Men
    « Reply #10 on: November 26, 2020, 11:21:24 AM »
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    • Quote from: Bonaventure on November 26, 2020, 11:11:11 AM
    I'll respond to the above by responding to a point raised in your OP:
    I wold proffer that no "real man" would turn tail and run simply because of bad sermons and/or "women screaming in their ears."  Real men would tell those women to shut up.  In that regard, I object to how you've posited the issue as lacking any foundation whatsoever, especially in the assertion that that is why France now only has an alleged 4% Mass attendance rate.  Mind you, I'm not asserting that the Novus Ordo Mass and/or women "screaming in their ears" had nothing to do with it, but if you think that every priest (heck, even a majority of priests) prior to 1965 had a natural gift of oratory and/or the ability to put together edge-of-your-seat sermons week after week, I think you're looking back on that portion of history with rose-colored glasses.
    No offense, but your response is incoherent to me, it is all over the place, and really says nothing.
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    The Vatican II church - Assisting Souls to Hell Since 1962

    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Mat 24:24

    Offline Stubborn

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    Re: Loud "Active Participation - How They Emptied the Churches of Men
    « Reply #11 on: November 26, 2020, 11:43:13 AM »
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    • Quote from: Last Tradhican on November 26, 2020, 10:51:51 AM
    A very short way to avoid debating my answer.

    So, you believe that insipid lectures attract men? You believe that the Novus Ordo aloud active participation attracts men? All the men in your greater family and all the men you know are not put off by the aloud active participation of the Novus Ordo and the insipid sermons?
    Well, I don't have any of the above at my SSPX chapel, but speaking for myself, the sermons do border on being insipid, consistently. I am sure some of the people there would disagree with me, but then again maybe they have never heard real attention grabbing, educational and inspiring sermons before - who knows?

    I'm pretty sure that if I were up there preaching, I'd do a whole lot worse, so I just say prayers to the Holy Ghost during the sermons, which seems to make them fly by for the most part.

    What your priest should do is explain to the people what "Active Participation" at the Holy Sacrifice actually means. One thing it most certainly does not mean, is the people answering the responses aloud. But that won't fly with your priest becuase obviously he needs to have what active participation means explained to him.    
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    Offline Bonaventure

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    Re: Loud "Active Participation - How They Emptied the Churches of Men
    « Reply #12 on: November 26, 2020, 12:00:35 PM »
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    • Quote from: Last Tradhican on November 26, 2020, 11:21:24 AM
    No offense, but your response is incoherent to me, it is all over the place, and really says nothing.

    A rather good summation of the OP.
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    Offline Stanley N

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    Re: Loud "Active Participation - How They Emptied the Churches of Men
    « Reply #13 on: November 26, 2020, 02:00:09 PM »
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    • Quote from: Last Tradhican on November 25, 2020, 10:29:32 AM
    Insipid "inoffensive" sermons, loud  "active participation" in the mass,  that effeminacy  drove the men away from the mass.

    If you want to talk effeminacy, I never saw priests wearing lace and lingerie before I went to Latin masses. Do you think that attracts men?
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    Offline Nadir

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    Re: Loud "Active Participation - How They Emptied the Churches of Men
    « Reply #14 on: November 26, 2020, 02:05:34 PM »
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    • Quote from: Stanley N on November 26, 2020, 02:00:09 PM
    If you want to talk effeminacy, I never saw priests wearing lace and lingerie before I went to Latin masses. Do you think that attracts men?
    Stanley, you made my day!
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