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Author Topic: Looking for +Sanborn Criticism of +Williamson Lack of Structure  (Read 3385 times)

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Re: Looking for +Sanborn Criticism of +Williamson Lack of Structure
« Reply #25 on: January 09, 2023, 06:55:11 AM »
No they don't.  Accepting a pragmatic situation where SSPX are recognized even while varous groups of Modernists contiue to exist in the Church is not the same as DOCTRINAL pluralism.  There were Modernists and heretics in the Church well before Vatican II, Cardinal Cushing being one of the most notorious.  At the end of the day, one can argue that it's not my business who else is not kicked out of the Church.  So it would have been OK for, say, Cardinal Spellman to go into schism because the Vatican didn't expel the Modernist Heretic Cushing?

What do you mean "Rome must convert"?  If Rome must convert, then Rome is not Catholic, and is therefore not "Rome" at all.

This disptue between neo-SSPX and Resistance is just a matter of emphasis and nuance and practical implications.  What are the practical implications of a man who is the Catholic pope, the Vicar of Christ, who legitimately excercises the authority of Christ, and somehow basically has the Catholic faith, and yet also holds various errors or heresies?  Does one emphasize the Catholic part of him or the non-Catholic part of him?

There's no substantive theological dispute here whatsoever.

Refuted in several entries in the CCCC thread.

Re: Looking for +Sanborn Criticism of +Williamson Lack of Structure
« Reply #26 on: January 09, 2023, 06:56:06 AM »
Since R&R like this metaphor, let's take the example / metaphor of a father in the family.  He starts doing and saying some bad things, and even commanding some bad things, but he's still my father.  I have to obey him when I can.  If he orders some bad things, then I don't do those, because I can't in good conscience, but if he orders me to take out the trash, I am obliged to do so.

So this father has two sons, both of whom want to leave as the father starts ordering them to do more and more bad things.  Father finds out and orders them to stay.  One feels he should stay, since that by itself is a legitimate order, while the other feels that he has to leave because it's getting to the point where it's harming him.  Their disagreement is one of prudential judgment and in terms of the judgment about whether there's some obligation left to the father.  But the both agree about which things the fathers says are wrong, and which are OK to obey.  There's no substantial disagreement here, but just a question of prudence.

What are you blabbering about?


Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Looking for +Sanborn Criticism of +Williamson Lack of Structure
« Reply #27 on: January 09, 2023, 06:56:17 AM »
BTW, if you read carefully what I wrote, I did not say that there are no differences.  What I said is that there aren’t any “red light” differences or differences that run deep enough where one could not go there in good conscience.

Re: Looking for +Sanborn Criticism of +Williamson Lack of Structure
« Reply #28 on: January 09, 2023, 06:56:42 AM »
I suspect that it’s just reading something into his statements.  What is the SSPX position of their official website says SSPX rejects religious liberty?

See CCCC thread.

Re: Looking for +Sanborn Criticism of +Williamson Lack of Structure
« Reply #29 on: January 09, 2023, 06:57:15 AM »
BTW, if you read carefully what I wrote, I did not say that there are no differences.  What I said is that there aren’t any “red light” differences or differences that run deep enough where one could not go there in good conscience.

Which is complete stupidity.