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Offline DominvsSabaoth

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looking for lefebvres writing online
« on: September 28, 2013, 08:56:53 PM »
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  •   I am currently discerning a vocation to God's holy priesthood as an fssp, sspx, icksp, or diocesan priest.  Its very difficult to find good theological writing these days.  Much of it is feel-goody, heretical, lax, and goes so far out of the way to be politically correct, truth Is greatly compromised.
    . Would abp. Lefebvre's writings on the priesthood help me? If so, can you provide some good links?


    Offline Hobbledehoy

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    « Reply #1 on: September 28, 2013, 09:09:13 PM »
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  • Archbishop Lefebvre wrote beautiful meditations and reflections published as a retreat book for his Seminarians, but I do not know if Angelus Press still has it in circulation in the original edition. I forgot the name of the book, but I read it a long, long, long while ago and I found it to be very edifying and enlightening.
    Please ignore all that I have written regarding sedevacantism.


    Offline DominvsSabaoth

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    « Reply #2 on: September 28, 2013, 09:11:36 PM »
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  • Quote from: Hobbledehoy
    Archbishop Lefebvre wrote beautiful meditations and reflections published as a retreat book for his Seminarians, but I do not know if Angelus Press still has it in circulation in the original edition. I forgot the name of the book, but I read it a long, long, long while ago and I found it to be very edifying and enlightening.

    I've heard. However I can't get my hands on a book by monsigneur Lefebvre. Know you any good websites?
    pax

    Offline Johnnier

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    « Reply #3 on: September 29, 2013, 05:33:36 AM »
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  • Offline B from A

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    « Reply #4 on: September 29, 2013, 07:12:51 AM »
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  • I don't know if you're only interesting in his writings specifically on the priesthood, and if so, I don't have any great specifics for you.  But a lot of his writings are here.


    Offline Hobbledehoy

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    « Reply #5 on: September 29, 2013, 08:46:28 AM »
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  • Please ignore all that I have written regarding sedevacantism.

    Offline songbird

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    « Reply #6 on: September 29, 2013, 07:01:26 PM »
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  • DS: Why do you desire New Order sects such as FSSP or diocese?

    Offline ctarozzi

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    « Reply #7 on: September 30, 2013, 02:33:14 PM »
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  • Dear DominvsSabaoth,

    If you're discerning a possible vocation to the Priesthood and you see the different communities you mention, I warn you at this moment neither of them follows the Archbishop's doctrinal positions:

    A Diocesan Priest? They believe in a Protestant-like ideal of a priest, like Pope Francis!

    The SSP? They betrayed Ap. Lefebvre in 1988 and made a deal with the Newchuch of Vatican II, which doesn't promote the true Priesthood...

    The ICKSP? They are like the SSP, but with the effeminate side...

    The neo-SSPX? Its superiors have betrayed Ab. Lefebvre's positions and dream STILL to join the Newchurch!

    The best solution would be to write to Fr. Pfeiffer (frjpfeiffer@juno.com), who is opening a seminary next month in Kentucky in order to preserve the true spirit of Priesthood taught by the holy Archbishop.

    If I judge by your other post, you're already discovering that something smells bad in the neo-SSPX, since they expelled Bp. Williamson...


    Offline DominvsSabaoth

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    « Reply #8 on: October 05, 2013, 10:11:22 PM »
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  • Quote from: songbird
    DS: Why do you desire New Order sects such as FSSP or diocese?

      Because I was raised in the novus ordo.  It kills me attending one...but I feel like I can bring more people to the true faith in a diocese.  The SSPX has no shortage of priests

    Offline bowler

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    « Reply #9 on: October 06, 2013, 03:29:05 AM »
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  • Quote from: DominvsSabaoth
     I am currently discerning a vocation to God's holy priesthood as an fssp, sspx, icksp, or diocesan priest.  Its very difficult to find good theological writing these days.  Much of it is feel-goody, heretical, lax, and goes so far out of the way to be politically correct, truth Is greatly compromised.
    . Would abp. Lefebvre's writings on the priesthood help me? If so, can you provide some good links?


    You sound like you are from  Novus Ordo Land, where even the bishops do not know the faith. If you are "discerning" with the knowledge base of a Novus Ordo upbringing, you really know nothing whatsoever. Therefore, how would you know that whatever you are told is the truth? The first step you must realize in your discernment, is that you know nothing, you are re-starting your life.

    You can start here http://wallmell.webs.com/LiguoriDignityDutiesPriest.pdf
    if you want to know about the priesthood specifically (buy the book).

    There's a ton more subjects you need to learn about and understand.

    Here's a foundation for everything (look up the full length version online):

    Quote
     ST. VINCENT OF LERINS [ A. D. 434 ] <p>
    [Author - Vincent shows himself also as a man of such remarkable perception that there is a certain timelessness to his writing. What he has to say of preserving the faith and of keeping to the rule of faith fits any period and all times, and might have been written yesterday.  

    Vincent develops the notion that our faith is based on the authority of divine Law, which must be understood and interpreted in the light of the Tradition of the Church. And this Tradition, if it need be discovered, is quod ubique, quod semper, quod ab omnibus crediturn est: what has been believed in the Church everywhere, always, and by all.  Vincent’s doctrinal principle does not exclude progress and development; but it does exclude change. For Vincent, progress is a developmental growth of doctrine in its own sphere; change, however, implies a transformation into something different.
    ST. VINCENT OF LERINS says: <p>

    With great zeal and closest attention, therefore, I frequently inquired of many men, eminent for their holiness and doctrine, how I might, in a concise and, so to speak, general and ordinary way, distinguish the truth of the Catholic faith from the falsehood of heretical depravity.  I received almost always the same answer from all of them, that if I or anyone else wanted to expose the frauds and escape the snares of the heretics who rise up, and to remain intact and sound in a sound faith, it would be necessary, with the help of the Lord, to fortify that faith in a twofold manner: first, of course, by the authority of the divine law; and then, by the Tradition of the Catholic Church.  [Here, perhaps, someone may ask: “If the canon of the Scriptures be perfect, and in itself more than suffices for everything, why is it necessary that the authority of ecclesiastical interpretation be joined to it?” Because, quite plainly, Sacred Scripture, by reason of its own depth, is not accepted by everyone as having one and the same meaning. The same passage is interpreted in one way by some, in another by others, so that it can almost appear as if there are as many opinions as there are men. Novatian explains a passage in one way, Sabellius in another, Donatus in another; Anus, Eunomius, Macedonius in another; Photinus, Apollinaris, Priscillian in another; Jovinian, Pelagius, Caelestius in another; and afterwards in still another, Nestorius. And thus, because of so many distortions of such various errors, it is highly necessary that the line of prophetic and apostolic interpretation be directed in accord with the norm of the ecclesiastical and Catholic meaning. In the Catholic Church herself every care must be taken that we may hold fast to that which has been believed everywhere, always, and by all. For this is then truly and properly Catholic.  That is what the force and meaning of the name itself declares, a name that embraces all almost universally. This general rule will be correctly applied if we pursue universality, antiquity, and agreement.  And we follow universality in this way, if we confess this one faith to be true, which is confessed by the whole Church throughout the whole world; antiquity, however, if we in no way depart from those interpretations which, it is clear our holy predecessors and fathers solemnized; and likewise agreement, if, in this very antiquity, we adopt the definitions and theses of all or certainly of almost all priests and teachers.

    To announce, therefore, to Catholic Christians something other than that which they have received has never been permitted, is nowhere permitted, and never will be permitted. And to anathematize those who announce anything other than that which has been received once and for all has never been unnecessary, is nowhere unnecessary and never will be unnecessary.

    He is a true and genuine Catholic who loves the truth of God, the Church, and the Body of Christ; who puts nothing else before divine religion and the Catholic Faith, neither the authority nor the love nor the genius nor the eloquence nor the philosophy of any man whatsoever, but, despising all that and being fixed, stable, and persevering in his faith, is determined in himself to hold and believe that only which he knows the Catholic Church has held universally and from ancient times.

    "Guard" he says, "what has been committed." What does it mean, "what has been committed”? It is what has been faithfully entrusted to you, not what has been discovered by you; what you have received, not what you have thought up; a matter not of ingenuity, but of doctrine; not of private acquisition, but of public Tradition;  a matter brought to you, not put forth by you, in which you must be not the author but the guardian, not the founder but the sharer, not the leader, but the follower. "Guard," he says, "what has been committed. "Keep the talent of the Catholic Faith inviolate and unimpaired. What has been faithfully entrusted, let it remain in your possession, let it be handed on by you. You have received gold, so give gold. For my part I do not want you to substitute one thing for mother; I do not want you impudently to put lead in place of gold, or, fraudulently brass. I do not want the appearance of gold, but the real thing.  O Timothy, O priest. O interpreter, O teacher, if a divine gift has made you suitable in genius, in experience, in doctrine to be the Beseleel of the spiritual tabernacle, cut out the precious gems of divine dogma, shape them faithfully, ornament them wisely, add splendor, grace and beauty to them! By your expounding it, may that now be understood more clearly which formerly was believed even in its obscurity. May posterity, by means of you, rejoice in understanding what in times past was venerated without understanding, Nevertheless, teach the same that you have learned, so that if you say something anew, it is not something new that you say.

    But perhaps someone is saying: "Will there, then, be no progress of religion in the Church of Christ?" Certainly there is, and the greatest. For who is there so envious toward men and so exceedingly hateful toward God, that he would try to prohibit progress? But it is truly progress and not a change of faith. What is meant by progress is that something is brought to an advancement within itself, by change, something is transformed from one thing into another. It is necessary, therefore, that understanding, knowledge, and wisdom grow and advance strongly and mightily as much in individuals as in the group, as much in one man as in the whole Church, and this gradually according to age and the times; and this must take place precisely within its own kind, that is, in the same teaching, in the same meaning, and in the same opinion.  The progress of religion in souls is like the growth of bodies, which, in the course of years, evolve and develop, but still remain what they were. . . . For example: Our fathers of old sowed the seeds of the wheat of faith in this field which is the Church. Certainly it would be unjust and incongruous if we, their descendents, were to gather, instead of the genuine truth of wheat, the noxious error of weeds. On the contrary, it is right and logically proper that there be no discrepancy between what is first and what is last and that we reap, in the increment of wheat from the wheat of instruction, the fruit also of dogma. And thus, although in the course of time something evolved from those first seeds and has now expanded under careful cultivation, nothing of the characteristics of the seeds is changed. Granted that appearance, beauty, and distinction has been added, still, the same nature of each kind remains. May it never happen that the rose garden of the Catholic sense be turned into thistles and thorns. May it never happen, I say, that darnel and monk's hood suddenly spring up in the spiritual paradise of shoots of cinnamon and balsam.

    We must most studiously investigate and follow this ancient agreement of the holy fathers,   not in all the lesser questions of the divine Law, but certainly and especially in the rule of faith. . . . But only those opinions of the fathers are to he brought forward which were expressed by those who lived, taught, and persevered wisely and constantly in the holy Catholic faith and communion, and who merited either to die faithfully in Christ or to be killed gloriously for Christ. Those men, moreover, are to be believed, in accord with the rule that only that is to be held as undoubted, certain, and valid, which either all or most of them have confirmed by receiving, holding, and handing on in one and the same sense, manifestly, frequently, and persistently, as if by a council of teachers in mutual agreement. But whatever was thought outside of or even against the opinion of all, although it be by a holy and learned man, or although by a confessor and martyr, must be removed from the authority of the common and public and general opinion, as being among his personal and peculiar and private views. In this way we shall not, as is the sacrilegious custom of heretics and schismatics, reject the ancient truth of universal dogma, to pursue, with great danger to our eternal salvation, the novel error of one man.<p>

    1.   This is the famous line: In ipsa item catholica ecclesia magnopere curandum est, ut id teneamus, quod ubique, quod semper, quod ab omnibus creditum est.

    Offline bowler

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    « Reply #10 on: October 06, 2013, 04:04:08 AM »
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  • Advice from an ancient.

    There are a gazillion books out there for you to read, you will never read them all even if you live to be 1000. If you read a few pages of a book and the author has not conveyed the subject to you,  has not made the complicated easy to understand for anyone, you do not have a good author, discard him and move on. When you find a good author read his works (Saints, Doctors, Popes, clergy, Catholic writers).

    To learn error, you learn the truth from Catholic authors, do not read the errors by the authors of errors (Eastern Orthodox, Protestants, Mohamedans, Bhuddists, Hindus,..... ). Learn truth to discern error.


    Offline bowler

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    « Reply #11 on: October 06, 2013, 04:15:12 AM »
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  • Advice from an ancient.

    There are a gazillion books out there for you to read, you will never read them all even if you live to be 1000. If you read a few pages of a book and the author has not conveyed the subject to you,  has not made the complicated easy to understand for anyone, you do not have a good author, discard him and move on. When you find a good author read his works (Saints, Doctors, Popes, clergy, Catholic writers).

    To learn error, you learn the truth from Catholic authors, do not read the errors by the authors of errors (Eastern Orthodox, Protestants, Mohamedans, Bhuddists, Hindus,..... ). Learn truth to discern error.

    re: made the complicated easy to understand for anyone

    Read The Incredible Catholic Mass by Fr. Martin Von Cochem, and then all his books. You will see an excellent example of someone who writes five different ways about a subject in just like one page, for five different minds (covering from the peasant to the Phd.)

    Offline bowler

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    « Reply #12 on: October 06, 2013, 04:38:51 AM »
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  • Quote
    If you read a few pages of a book and the author has not conveyed the subject to you,  has not made the complicated easy to understand for anyone, you do not have a good author, discard him and move on.


    We are living in the modernist/progressivist revolution, the synthesis of all heresies (Pius X called it the cesspool of all heresies. A cesspool is the final resting place of all the city's sewer pipe flows!) The chosen snare of the devil for his purpose has been the chocolate of the clergy, an attraction for what they do not understand. The chocolate has been provided by the likes of the Karl Rahners, Jacques Maritains , Von Balthasars types.

    Had the clergy followed the advise above, they would have avoided falling into heresy. They would have discerned the apostate authors (Karl Rahners, Jaques de Maritan, Von Balthasar, ect.) as being the just bad writers, and not "guiding lights".

    Good authors make the complicated easy to understand. Bad authors use words to confound rather than to communicate.

    Read anything written by JPII. If you think that it is well written. You are in deep trouble, you'll have to start from scratch to learn how to learn.

    Offline DominvsSabaoth

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    « Reply #13 on: October 06, 2013, 09:41:13 AM »
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  • Good ideas.
    I read a good deal of Aquinas's summa theologica. A priest I am friendly with recco.ended a Latin version of the confessions of St Augustine.  I also hear excellent things about st Robert bellarmine, cantius, and saint alphonsus.
    I have also read a small volume by benedict xvi and...here itis bowler: JP II. He was a bit ovverated...i must admit