I've heard about ex-seminarians falling all the way down to losing the Faith after their seminary experience. I always wondered incredulously about that -- until I read this. This level of disillusionment would do it.

Indeed.

As I read and as I neared the end, I was reminded of the film, Catholics, now generally available under the title, The Conflict.  It truly seemed in many respects to sound similar to the Superior's expression of his loss of faith in the film.

I hope this man has retained the Catholic faith.

there must be many young men who have suffered similarly

Alas more than we know.  I myself knew many who left there as complete basket cases.  If I didn't know any better, I might think that it was being done on purpose:  "Goodbye, good men."

Quote from: stgobnait (Aug 12, 2014, 11:55 am)

it showed, in a much lesser way of course, the new direction of the society [...].  [T]here must be many young men who have suffered similarly [....]

Alas more than we know.  I myself knew many who left there as complete basket cases.

A fine segue into one of the most troubling conclusions offered:

[quote="Ex-seminarian" at bravsindex.com via Matthew (Aug 11, 2014, 9:45 pm)]A decade later, I have met some of the men who have been ordained
from this system. They are good men.  Calm men, very pious who know their technique--I’ve never seen a mass celebrated with such exactness.  But there are no character men among them, and no leaders.  And that will become a problem in the future when they will need those seminarians whose vocations they so ignominiously wasted.
[/quote]
Although the excerpt was otherwise plain enough, the writer's phrase "no character men" was really puzzling.  It came across to me as a broad insult to the seminarians ordained later, but the writer's style of expression  seems inconsistent with intending such a meaning.

Thank you to Mr Z and to Matthew for posting this fascinating history. More pieces of the puzzle click for those of us who only see some of the pieces.

It is a fascinating read. Yet at the same time, I think it would be a bit wrong to manipulate his outpouring of soul as a means to bolster the "resistance." Again though, as I keep saying, I nevertheless DO NOT disagree with many of the premises of the "resistance."

This idea of dominance is entrenched in many Catholics. They lament about how bad the world is and how certain its approaching end must be, but you can spin them on a dime when you ask why Catholicism is so great, and suddenly you get litanies of praise about Catholic art, music, culture and progress. But where are those things now? In the past century, what has Catholicism done? Nothing. Catholics now seem content to rest on their laurels while waiting for the end of the world. It must be the end, because we’re not winning anymore – God’s going to come in and just clean everything up for us.

This is so true. It seems trads are unwilling to fight for restoration but instead only grit teeth and await the end.

Quote from: Kazimierz

A telling tale, and an interesting analogy. I knew the author and his brother, and their entire family, during my "tour of duty" at OLMC New Hamburg. I didnt know how bad though the seminary experience was in reality.


Being an avid historian of wars and conflicts, having read and watched almost everything concerning the Vietnam War (perhaps a bit odd for a Canadian but I am very much interested as well in the War between the States) I trust seminary was not anywhere as bad as serving a tour in the Nam. Nonetheless it makes for an analogy/metaphor that is worth exploring.

The author needs to read Digger Dogface Brownjob Grunt and see if he still feels his experiences compare with a Vietnam era infantry soldier, jumping out of a helicopter 8 ft from the ground with 70 lbs on your back to crawl through a jungle with leeches on you, not enough water in a million degrees, or during monsoon season with your feet always wet, picking up the pieces of your battle buddies and putting them in a plastic bag, shooting old people and children, having your testicles and limbs blown off your body, and multiply this a year of duty under threat of imprisonment doesn't compare to liberal seminary.

You're the first person to lambast him for using the Vietnam analogy. Kazimierz went about as far as one could reasonably go: "it's a bit weird, but I get it".

It was an analogy. You know what that is, right?

He is by no means saying that his experience was as harrowing as living through fighting the Vietnam War. He was drawing certain parallels, as seen in a particular movie at that.

He said his seminary experience was like Platoon, not like the Vietnam War. There is a difference.

And if you actually READ the work, rather than just the comments that followed it, you'd know what a great job he did of fleshing out that analogy.

Once again, people are quick to slam a work when they haven't produced anything better themselves.

I'd love to see Tiffany write a long, heartfelt story about a crucible she went through, and then post it online. I'm sure we could find much more fault in it than she found above.

Matthew anyone in seminary can leave, they can go work at McDonalds, they can go live in a cardboard box and eat in a soup kitchen, none of that is an option when you are being fired at with a machine gun and lying in feces and mud with leeches on your private parts dying for a drink of water and crawling to a battle buddy whose insides are torn out and making sure your men keep firing, or hearing one of your men scream and you cannot locate them due to the battle fog.

This is what's called "missing the point" and "getting lost in the example".

Have you ever heard the scholastic expression, "all comparisons limp, except for the point of comparison?"

omnis comparatio claudicat

You're right, he was downright comfy compared to that physical hell.

But imagine if you and your son were being imprisoned by horrible men, and you were made to watch them do various things to put him in anguish -- spiritual, mental, and/or physical. Or you woke up each day not knowing if today would be the day they'd torture your son and make you watch.

Wouldn't that be ITS OWN BRAND of hell, just as real as the hell you describe above?

Don't be so quick to dismiss someone else's suffering as "nothing". You come across very heartless and non-compassionate, and that's the polite, scientific version of what you seem like.

It is very unbecoming for a woman to be so lacking in compassion. You are obviously damaged goods; something happened to you to make you this way. You need to recover the "compassion" aspect of your feminine nature.