Author Topic: Life as a Seminarian was like movie Platoon (Read 45398 times)

ggreg · « **Reply #15 on:** August 11, 2014, 05:40:56 PM »

Perhaps this has always gone on, but for the first time, because of recent events people have removed the Rose Tinted glasses and are prepared to consider these accounts at face value. In the past people like this were, more often than not, outcast.

Having been on the receiving end of some degree of injustice or cover up or censure more Trads are more open minded to other people's negative experiences and more willing to consider that the emperor perhaps is not dressed as impeccably as groupthink had made them believe.

It's hard to operate with your own thoughts. Most people want the security of a tribe around them.

PG · « **Reply #16 on:** August 11, 2014, 05:45:52 PM »

I am about half way through, and was under the impression that this was a novus ordo semary story(and feeling like I am wasting my time). However, the "4 bishops of the order" statment and ladislaus post tell me that this is the sspx. So, I want to confirm, is this the sspx?

Matthew · « **Reply #17 on:** August 11, 2014, 05:54:56 PM »

Quote from: Ekim

Sounds like most of this took place under + Williamson's watch. Although the author speaks highly of him, truth be told the "Captain of the ship" is ultimately responsible for the course the ship takes. I wonder if post +Williamson seminarians would relate the same experience? Perhaps the exit of +Williamson was the reason for the greater number of ordinations since he left? One could argue that +Fellay was right in his decision to relieve +Williamson from Winona.

Not a chance.

The number of seminarians was increasing every year, starting in about 2000.

The SSPX had become quite large, and the various schools (including St. Mary's, KS) had been around long enough to bear fruit. Except for myself and one other seminarian, the other 40-60 seminarians were from some SSPX chapel or other.

Bishop Williamson was exiled for one reason -- the same reason he was ejected from the SSPX. He wouldn't compromise on the truth. He had too much influence in the English-speaking world. That's why he was sent to a non-English-speaking country. To limit the damage, as it were.

Ladislaus · « **Reply #18 on:** August 11, 2014, 06:10:22 PM »

I was at Winona under Bishop Williamson. One of the funny points in the story was about showering once a week. That's actually in the SSPX rule for seminarians. So I dutifully obeyed, much to my extreme discomfort. I would often wash my hair in the little sink we had in our rooms because I really couldn't deal with having greasy hair for a week.

Then after a few months of this, Bishop Williamson had gotten wind of this practice among the seminarians who were trying to diligently observe the rule, and mentioned it in one of his daily talks. He said that the spirit behind the rule was that seminarians had to take a shower AT LEAST once a week, not that they could shower ONLY once a week. At that point, I didn't know whether to laugh or to cry. Needless to say, I started showering every day. Bishop Williamson said that this was because of the French who didn't feel the need to shower for months on end. So the rule was "Seminarians should shower once a week." Ambiguous on the surface. To the American mind, this could ONLY mean that we had to limit showering to once a week because we simply took it for granted that we would shower at least that often.

Luker · « **Reply #19 on:** August 11, 2014, 06:16:56 PM »

Quote from: + PG +

I am about half way through, and was under the impression that this was a novus ordo semary story(and feeling like I am wasting my time). However, the "4 bishops of the order" statment and ladislaus post tell me that this is the sspx. So, I want to confirm, is this the sspx?

Ya he is talking about the SSPX seminary in Winona. Not sure which French seminary he might have been refering to.

I remember listening to the interview given by former NO/SSPX seminarian John Thomson gave on the True Restoration show, he mentioned a purge as well, right after Archbishop Lefebvre died. So that would have been around 1991 or so. Sounds like this type of thing has been going on for a while now in the society, at least since Archbishop Lefebvre passed away.

It's seems the second largest traditional group outside the SSPX is ex-SSPX members clergy/laity :stare:

overmind · « **Reply #20 on:** August 11, 2014, 06:53:31 PM »

My educated guess is that the French Seminary is Flavigny.

He referred to the location of a famous Roman battle featuring Vercingetorix. That is probably the battle of Alesia. It is where Julius Caesar defeated the Gallic tribes united under the leadership of Vercingetorix.

:dwarf:

If you look up Flavigny and Alesia (today: Alise-Saint-Reine) on a map they are in more-or-less the same location.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@47.5247467,4.488796,12z

Matthew · « **Reply #21 on:** August 11, 2014, 07:02:48 PM »

Quote from: Ekim

Thanks Matthew. I was playing. Devils advocate. It would be interesting yo know however, if recent seminarians would relate the same type of story.

Of course they would NOT relate anything close to the same type of story.

What you have in this story is a transition period. Seminarians who studied under +W were purged, based on how "influenced" they had been by the good Bishop, and how malleable they were to the new ways.

That was part of it. The other part was the vice-rector's political power plays. That vice rector is no longer there, so obviously all that drama is a thing of the past.

Right now, all the seminarians there have been formed according to a new ideal from day one, with a given leadership in place. So there won't be any other crises, drastic changes, 180 degree turns, or whiplash for now.

Just like there is no crisis/change/whiplash in Novus Ordo churches today. The drastic changes have long been implemented! Those who were shocked by the New Mass, or those who faced a crisis of conscience have long since left.

cathman7 · « **Reply #22 on:** August 11, 2014, 07:55:49 PM »

Quote from: ggreg

I wouldn't want the priest reading long tracts from King Lear either.

So a man has just poured out his soul about his experience in the seminary in a very articulate manner and all you have to do is criticize the length. Bizarre.

Kazimierz · « **Reply #23 on:** August 11, 2014, 08:09:48 PM »

A telling tale, and an interesting analogy. I knew the author and his brother, and their entire family, during my "tour of duty" at OLMC New Hamburg. I didnt know how bad though the seminary experience was in reality.

Being an avid historian of wars and conflicts, having read and watched almost everything concerning the Vietnam War (perhaps a bit odd for a Canadian but I am very much interested as well in the War between the States) I trust seminary was not anywhere as bad as serving a tour in the Nam. Nonetheless it makes for an analogy/metaphor that is worth exploring.

AlligatorDicax · « **Reply #24 on:** August 11, 2014, 08:30:43 PM »

Quote from: ggreg (no later than 10:20 am)

If he had become a priest I would have dreaded his sermons. Too Long.

So is that the secret to the financial success of which you so frequently boast in this forum? By which I mean a brain that can accomodate ideas or narratives only if they're not much longer than a profane tweet?

The New Testament that I use as reference occupies 280 pp. as published

:  So I suppose all CathInfo readers should dismiss it as "Too Long"!

-------
Note *: In an ordinary size of type for a Bible intended for a bookshelf.

Matthew · « **Reply #25 on:** August 11, 2014, 08:45:16 PM »

Quote from: AlligatorDicax

Quote from: ggreg (no later than 10:20 am)
If he had become a priest I would have dreaded his sermons. Too Long.

So is that the secret to the financial success of which you so frequently boast in this forum? By which I mean a brain that can accomodate ideas or narratives only if they're not much longer than a profane tweet?

That's what I was thinking. Some things are WORTH the hours spent reading.

As long as the long text in question is interesting, well-written, well thought out, not repetitious, etc. This text passes all those tests.

Not everything can be digested into a "5 minute soundbite".

Notice that even CNN.com is getting in on the low attention span action now -- they have a "five things you need to know today" article every day now, giving you a quickie version of the news.

What people need is MORE depth in their lives, not less!

AlligatorDicax · « **Reply #26 on:** August 11, 2014, 10:23:19 PM »

Quote from: Matthew (Aug 11, 2014, 9:45 pm)

Some things are WORTH the hours spent reading.

My unexpected hours of reading were assisted by a progression from coffee to fermented adult beverages.

Quote from: Matthew (Aug 11, 2014, 9:45 pm)

As long as the long text in question is interesting, well-written, well thought out, not repetitious, etc.  This text passes all those tests.

Indeed it does. Were I to be demanded--yes, under duress and in haste--to devise a single phrase to describe the posted narrative, I'd describe it as "highly disturbing": What seems to be an overwhelming majority of traditional priestly vocations scuttled at certain traditional seminaries!? And the majority of those decisions without any reasons given? It's not as if there's a surplus of traditional priests nowadays.

The narrative made no mention of the Lavender Mafia, so all truly traditional Catholics must hope & trust that it was not merely an unmentioned issue, but one that was totally irrelevant to the seminaries in the narrative.

Some of the faculty making so many egregious--seemingly capricious--decisions denying vocations might find their skulls mingled with those of bad bishops whose skulls pave the floors of levels of H@||.

Matthew · « **Reply #27 on:** August 11, 2014, 10:37:03 PM »

Quote from: AlligatorDicax

Quote from: Matthew (Aug 11, 2014, 9:45 pm)
Some things are WORTH the hours spent reading.

My unexpected hours of reading were assisted by a progression from coffee to fermented adult beverages.

Quote from: Matthew (Aug 11, 2014, 9:45 pm)
As long as the long text in question is interesting, well-written, well thought out, not repetitious, etc.  This text passes all those tests.

Indeed it does. Were I to be demanded--yes, under duress and in haste--to devise a single phrase to describe the posted narrative, I'd describe it as "highly disturbing": What seems to be an overwhelming majority of traditional priestly vocations scuttled at certain traditional seminaries!? And the majority of those decisions without any reasons given? It's not as if there's a surplus of traditional priests nowadays.

The narrative made no mention of the Lavender Mafia, so all truly traditional Catholics must hope & trust that it was not merely an unmentioned issue, but one that was totally irrelevant to the seminaries in the narrative.

Some of the faculty making so many egregious--seemingly capricious--decisions denying vocations might find their skulls mingled with those of bad bishops whose skulls pave the floors of levels of H@||.

Indeed, I was there and I can attest that I never saw anything Lavender going on, or even any hints of the same.

I think it comes down to opportunity. The Trad world presents plenty of unique challenges to priests, some of which successfully passed (to their credit) and others are failed miserably (to their condemnation).

Specifically, I mean the temptation to power, bully, abuse, and start a cult. Look at how many groups in Traddieland have become de-facto cults. Bullying from influential parishioners, written abjurations, forbidding parishioners to attend the other Trad Mass in town, etc.

In normal times, most average priests would never have a chance to be thus tested. They would be much more supervision and a lot less isolation. They wouldn't be "the only game in town".

I was indirectly mentioned twice in the story, by the way.

Quote

In that year, only one seminarian left with ease, with true peace.

Quote

I knew before the seminarian knew. I would leave his room and I’d see that seminarian, laughing and talking and doing his duties. He didn’t know it was over. Once I was told 3 months in advance of the actual culling of someone. There was no reason why. That ex-seminarian, to this day, doesn’t even know why he was asked to leave. He was just “unsuitable”.
...
These were not humanities or first years he was name dropping, these were men who’d already put in 3 or 4 years, men who were committed. How can a vocation not be discerned after 2 years? That is a massive disservice. Sure, there might be exceptions, but this was becoming the norm. Their dreams were dead all over their face. Their efforts destroyed, reasons mysterious, and I felt party to it by my silence.

BrJoseph · « **Reply #28 on:** August 12, 2014, 05:15:29 AM »

Thank you to Mr Z and to Matthew for posting this fascinating history. More pieces of the puzzle click for those of us who only see some of the pieces.

JPaul · « **Reply #29 on:** August 12, 2014, 07:39:09 AM »

Upon reading, one wonders where does Catholic, and in the footsteps of Christ, come in as a reality, in such a jaded seminary?

It is like a trip to the island of Dr. Moreau. Is it any wonder that the priests of the new formation are unquestioning automaton foot soldiers?

But, they do look good upon the pages of the glossy brightly colored brochures.