Author Topic: Letter to Fr. Thouvenot (Read 4430 times)

John Grace · « **on:** June 29, 2012, 12:58:03 PM »

Dumb Ox posted the following on IA. I never liked Fr Clifton but my opinion about him has changed in recent months.

http://cathinfo-warning-pornography!/Ignis_Ardens/index.php?showtopic=10076

Quote

Text of Letter from Fr. Matthew Clifton, SSPX, to
Fr. Christian Thouvenot, Secretary General, SSPX

St George’s House, Wimbledon.
27th June 2012.

Dear Father,

On the eve of the 20th anniversary of my priestly ordination, whilst giving thanks to Almighty God and Our Blessed Lady for such a great grace and mercy shown to me, I feel compelled to make known my thoughts on the current sufferings which have come to afflict our dear Society.

Events in the Society over the last three months have led me first to sadness and anguish, and finally to despondency and anger. The terrible divisions which now undermine our Society are not the fruit of rebellion and disobedience, but clearly are the result of a seismic change of principle on the part of our Superiors in the relation to Rome. Abandoning the security and prudence of the position adopted by the Society at the last meeting of the General Chapter (2006), namely of refusing any practical agreement with the Roman authorities without there being any doctrinal resolution of the errors of the Second Vatican Council, has proved to be a disaster. Consequently, the Society which was always united and strong is now fractured and weakened – brother is turning against brother. No convincing argument has been presented as a justification for such a fundamental shift in position – the Holy Father has not altered in any way whatsoever his insistence upon the hermeneutic of continuity in relation to Tradition and the teachings of the last Council. And yet, we are simply meant to accept the contrary.

This approach could not but produce the profound malaise that now affects our Society. Additionally, the misuse of secrecy on such a grand scale by our current Superiors, accompanied by privileging a small group of trusted supports of the new policy towards Rome, has served to exacerbate this painful situation even further.

Hence, it is abundantly clear to me that those who truly bear responsibility for the current storm are not those who have attempted to preserve our Society’s firmness and unambiguous profession of the Catholic Faith in relation to the Conciliar authorities but those who chose to abandon the wisdom of insisting upon a real conversion on the part of Modernist Rome before envisaging a practical agreement.

In light of this, the Superior General's decision to exclude one of his brother bishops (chosen, as himself, by His Grace Archbishop Lefebvre) from the Chapter Meeting in July together with this refusal to ordain candidates from religious communities who have always shared with us the same battle for Tradition “until their loyalty can be ensured” are profoundly disturbing and unjust. To simply have recourse to ever-increasing sanctions against those who oppose the novelty of the new policy – alluded to by Bishop Fellay for the first time in the March edition of Cor Unum – will only serve to create ever more division and do even more harm to the Society. On the contrary, it is my profound conviction that only a return to our former position of insisting upon a real doctrinal conversion on the part of Rome before any practical agreement, will be able to restore once again peace and unity to our priestly Society, ever loyal to the example and spirit of our beloved founder, Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre.

In Christo sacerdote et Maria Immaculata.

Fr Matthew Clifton.

John Grace · « **Reply #1 on:** June 29, 2012, 01:08:00 PM »

Quote

Events in the Society over the last three months have led me first to sadness and anguish, and finally to despondency and anger. The terrible divisions which now undermine our Society are not the fruit of rebellion and disobedience, but clearly are the result of a seismic change of principle on the part of our Superiors in the relation to Rome.

Fr Clifton doesn't seem to be including the 'Williamson Affair' or 'Krahgate'.This started more than three months ago.

Though this is good

Quote

In light of this, the Superior General's decision to exclude one of his brother bishops (chosen, as himself, by His Grace Archbishop Lefebvre) from the Chapter Meeting in July together with this refusal to ordain candidates from religious communities who have always shared with us the same battle for Tradition “until their loyalty can be ensured” are profoundly disturbing and unjust.

Ironic given that the name Bernard Fellay was not on the original list. The first name given to Rome at the time was Fr Richard Williamson yet now Bishop Williamson is excluded from the General Chapter. So much for the unity of the Bishops as desired by Archbishop Lefebvre at the consecrations in 1988

It needs to be established as to who wanted Bernard Fellay in and why. He is obviously seeking to destroy the SSPX.

John Grace · « **Reply #2 on:** June 29, 2012, 01:11:45 PM »

A fantastic letter though.

Ethelred · « **Reply #3 on:** June 29, 2012, 01:12:34 PM »

I don't know Fr. Clifton but this letter indeed is very good and true.

A few more letters in the same spirit (opposing any Betrayal) from more European SSPX priests have been to Menzingen, some to Stuttgart. The answers from the high commands always were nonsensical.
Still these letters act as a retrieval of Archbishop Lefebvre's honour.
So, thank you dear truthful priests for writing them!

Indeed the SSPX is now being purged. And obviously it was high time.

The good ones go into the pot, the bad ones go into your crop!

John Grace · « **Reply #4 on:** June 29, 2012, 01:17:17 PM »

Quote from: Ethelred

I don't know Fr. Clifton but this letter indeed is very good and true.

There are a few more letters in the same spirit (opposing any Betrayal) from more European SSPX priests. Some have been sent to Menzingen, some to Stuttgart. The answers from the high command always were nonsensical.
Still these letters act as a retrieval of Archbishop Lefebvre's honour. So, thank you dear truthful priests for sending them!

Indeed the SSPX is now being purged. And obviously it was high time.

The good ones go into the pot, the bad ones go into your crop!

Fr Clifton is a good sort. I'm not a massive fan of the English. I wasn't convinced the Irish would like him. He seems very middle class English. I prefer the Germans to the English. Fr Clifton is very English but a good sort.

s2srea · « **Reply #5 on:** June 29, 2012, 01:28:07 PM »

Quote from: Fr Clifton

The terrible divisions which now undermine our Society are not the fruit of rebellion and disobedience, but clearly are the result of a seismic change of principle on the part of our Superiors in the relation to Rome. Abandoning the security and prudence of the position adopted by the Society at the last meeting of the General Chapter (2006), namely of refusing any practical agreement with the Roman authorities without there being any doctrinal resolution of the errors of the Second Vatican Council, has proved to be a disaster. Consequently, the Society which was always united and strong is now fractured and weakened – brother is turning against brother. No convincing argument has been presented as a justification for such a fundamental shift in position – the Holy Father has not altered in any way whatsoever his insistence upon the hermeneutic of continuity in relation to Tradition and the teachings of the last Council. And yet, we are simply meant to accept the contrary.

I'm very glad Fr. Clifton distinguishes what the REAL reason for the resistance is and that nothing of this nature has happened, or would be happening, if it weren't for lack of "prudence" (he put it nicely, didn't he) from those of the SSPX Superiors.

John Grace · « **Reply #6 on:** June 29, 2012, 01:53:54 PM »

A good point is made here. Like the 'Williamson Affair', this episode in the Society will see a new awakened resistance emerge. What Bishop Fellay is doing is waking more people up.

http://cathinfo-warning-pornography!/Ignis_Ardens/index.php?showtopic=10076

Quote

I don't know the answer to your question but I am confident that on the other side of this crisis the traditionalist camp will emerge stronger than ever. I believe that this crisis has awakened a renewed fighting spirit in the troops. Whether that means a strengthened SSPX or a new organization or both, I don't know. It definitely is demoralizing to see Bishop Fellay ruthlessly crushing all opposition to a deal but this trial will pass. God will not abandon those who wish to remain faithful to the entire tradition of the Church. Our Lady's Immaculate Heart will triumph.

s2srea · « **Reply #7 on:** June 29, 2012, 01:58:32 PM »

Quote from: John Grace

A good point is made here. Like the 'Williamson Affair', this episode in the Society will see a new awakened resistance emerge. What Bishop Fellay is doing is waking more people up.

http://cathinfo-warning-pornography!/Ignis_Ardens/index.php?showtopic=10076
Quote
I don't know the answer to your question but I am confident that on the other side of this crisis the traditionalist camp will emerge stronger than ever. I believe that this crisis has awakened a renewed fighting spirit in the troops. Whether that means a strengthened SSPX or a new organization or both, I don't know. It definitely is demoralizing to see Bishop Fellay ruthlessly crushing all opposition to a deal but this trial will pass. God will not abandon those who wish to remain faithful to the entire tradition of the Church. Our Lady's Immaculate Heart will triumph.

I don't know if I agree with this John Grace. Its not that I wouldn't want that. But its an idealists way of seeing things. At least in my situation, in the SSPX chapel I attend, most, though not all, are ignorant of the facts. They either are spoon fed the agitprop coming out of DICI or Menzengin directly, or they have no time or access to these facts we can find here. I have a feeling, if this deal isn't made, that many will still be tepid and lukewarm.

John Grace · « **Reply #8 on:** June 29, 2012, 02:00:57 PM »

All this can get very personal. I'm sorry to say I didn't arrange to meet fellow Catholics recently as I thought they were pro-agreement. I admit it was wrong of me. It turns out they are anti.

Wessex · « **Reply #9 on:** June 30, 2012, 05:56:55 AM »

Quote from: John Grace

All this can get very personal. I'm sorry to say I didn't arrange to meet fellow Catholics recently as I thought they were pro-agreement. I admit it was wrong of me. It turns out they are anti.

You never know what the English think; they moan about this and that and then go and vote for the establishment! I should know; I live among them! There is this fear of being considered 'extreme' and they deal with this by maintaining the status quo. Bp. Williamson broke the mould but the powers that be did a good job on him that you have to be a strong character just to mention his name. People say one thing in public and another thing in private.

clare · « **Reply #10 on:** June 30, 2012, 06:37:02 AM »

God bless Fr Clifton! :dancing:

SeanJohnson · « **Reply #11 on:** June 30, 2012, 07:46:47 AM »

Quote from: John Grace

Dumb Ox posted the following on IA. I never liked Fr Clifton but my opinion about him has changed in recent months.

http://cathinfo-warning-pornography!/Ignis_Ardens/index.php?showtopic=10076
Quote
Text of Letter from Fr. Matthew Clifton, SSPX, to
Fr. Christian Thouvenot, Secretary General, SSPX

St George’s House, Wimbledon.
27th June 2012.

Dear Father,

On the eve of the 20th anniversary of my priestly ordination, whilst giving thanks to Almighty God and Our Blessed Lady for such a great grace and mercy shown to me, I feel compelled to make known my thoughts on the current sufferings which have come to afflict our dear Society.

Events in the Society over the last three months have led me first to sadness and anguish, and finally to despondency and anger. The terrible divisions which now undermine our Society are not the fruit of rebellion and disobedience, but clearly are the result of a seismic change of principle on the part of our Superiors in the relation to Rome. Abandoning the security and prudence of the position adopted by the Society at the last meeting of the General Chapter (2006), namely of refusing any practical agreement with the Roman authorities without there being any doctrinal resolution of the errors of the Second Vatican Council, has proved to be a disaster. Consequently, the Society which was always united and strong is now fractured and weakened – brother is turning against brother. No convincing argument has been presented as a justification for such a fundamental shift in position – the Holy Father has not altered in any way whatsoever his insistence upon the hermeneutic of continuity in relation to Tradition and the teachings of the last Council. And yet, we are simply meant to accept the contrary.

This approach could not but produce the profound malaise that now affects our Society. Additionally, the misuse of secrecy on such a grand scale by our current Superiors, accompanied by privileging a small group of trusted supports of the new policy towards Rome, has served to exacerbate this painful situation even further.

Hence, it is abundantly clear to me that those who truly bear responsibility for the current storm are not those who have attempted to preserve our Society’s firmness and unambiguous profession of the Catholic Faith in relation to the Conciliar authorities but those who chose to abandon the wisdom of insisting upon a real conversion on the part of Modernist Rome before envisaging a practical agreement.

In light of this, the Superior General's decision to exclude one of his brother bishops (chosen, as himself, by His Grace Archbishop Lefebvre) from the Chapter Meeting in July together with this refusal to ordain candidates from religious communities who have always shared with us the same battle for Tradition “until their loyalty can be ensured” are profoundly disturbing and unjust. To simply have recourse to ever-increasing sanctions against those who oppose the novelty of the new policy – alluded to by Bishop Fellay for the first time in the March edition of Cor Unum – will only serve to create ever more division and do even more harm to the Society. On the contrary, it is my profound conviction that only a return to our former position of insisting upon a real doctrinal conversion on the part of Rome before any practical agreement, will be able to restore once again peace and unity to our priestly Society, ever loyal to the example and spirit of our beloved founder, Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre.

In Christo sacerdote et Maria Immaculata.

Fr Matthew Clifton.

Nice post!

If that letter was any more right, it would be wrong!

Just emailed it to my priest.

You should all do the same.

:applause:

John Grace · « **Reply #12 on:** July 02, 2012, 07:24:10 AM »

Quote from: Seraphim

Quote from: John Grace
Dumb Ox posted the following on IA. I never liked Fr Clifton but my opinion about him has changed in recent months.

http://cathinfo-warning-pornography!/Ignis_Ardens/index.php?showtopic=10076
Quote
Text of Letter from Fr. Matthew Clifton, SSPX, to
Fr. Christian Thouvenot, Secretary General, SSPX

St George’s House, Wimbledon.
27th June 2012.

Dear Father,

On the eve of the 20th anniversary of my priestly ordination, whilst giving thanks to Almighty God and Our Blessed Lady for such a great grace and mercy shown to me, I feel compelled to make known my thoughts on the current sufferings which have come to afflict our dear Society.

Events in the Society over the last three months have led me first to sadness and anguish, and finally to despondency and anger. The terrible divisions which now undermine our Society are not the fruit of rebellion and disobedience, but clearly are the result of a seismic change of principle on the part of our Superiors in the relation to Rome. Abandoning the security and prudence of the position adopted by the Society at the last meeting of the General Chapter (2006), namely of refusing any practical agreement with the Roman authorities without there being any doctrinal resolution of the errors of the Second Vatican Council, has proved to be a disaster. Consequently, the Society which was always united and strong is now fractured and weakened – brother is turning against brother. No convincing argument has been presented as a justification for such a fundamental shift in position – the Holy Father has not altered in any way whatsoever his insistence upon the hermeneutic of continuity in relation to Tradition and the teachings of the last Council. And yet, we are simply meant to accept the contrary.

This approach could not but produce the profound malaise that now affects our Society. Additionally, the misuse of secrecy on such a grand scale by our current Superiors, accompanied by privileging a small group of trusted supports of the new policy towards Rome, has served to exacerbate this painful situation even further.

Hence, it is abundantly clear to me that those who truly bear responsibility for the current storm are not those who have attempted to preserve our Society’s firmness and unambiguous profession of the Catholic Faith in relation to the Conciliar authorities but those who chose to abandon the wisdom of insisting upon a real conversion on the part of Modernist Rome before envisaging a practical agreement.

In light of this, the Superior General's decision to exclude one of his brother bishops (chosen, as himself, by His Grace Archbishop Lefebvre) from the Chapter Meeting in July together with this refusal to ordain candidates from religious communities who have always shared with us the same battle for Tradition “until their loyalty can be ensured” are profoundly disturbing and unjust. To simply have recourse to ever-increasing sanctions against those who oppose the novelty of the new policy – alluded to by Bishop Fellay for the first time in the March edition of Cor Unum – will only serve to create ever more division and do even more harm to the Society. On the contrary, it is my profound conviction that only a return to our former position of insisting upon a real doctrinal conversion on the part of Rome before any practical agreement, will be able to restore once again peace and unity to our priestly Society, ever loyal to the example and spirit of our beloved founder, Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre.

In Christo sacerdote et Maria Immaculata.

Fr Matthew Clifton.

Nice post!

If that letter was any more right, it would be wrong!

Just emailed it to my priest.

You should all do the same.

:applause:

Just to inform you all, the letter has been sent to Fr Sherry SSPX. Whilst a public reply is doubtful and not expected, this should be sent to all SSPX priests. Ideally include the docuмented facts on the Menzingen lawyer.

Also post it to them and get a certificate of postage. Proof of postage. When the clerics are presented with facts, they can't dismiss it as rumour.

MargaretRooney · « **Reply #13 on:** July 02, 2012, 04:28:54 PM »

Excellent letter by Fr Clifton.

We had him here in Glasgow for a number of years and he was a wonderful priest.

:dancing-banana: :rahrah: