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Offline Matthew

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Letter of Bp. de Castro Mayer rejecting the TFP
« on: June 25, 2019, 12:10:40 AM »
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  • LETTER OF BISHOP DE CASTRO MAYER ON THE TFP

    (The following letter, addressed to a layman friend, dated 1984, was published in the Brazilian newspaper Folha da Manhã in 1991)

    Dear N.,

    I owe you an answer to your painful letter of September 24 [1984] that, as the postmark indicates, you sent me on September 25th.

    In this case I can only give you one advice: pray, pray a lot, above all the [15 decade] Rosary or at least the [5 decade] Rosary, asking the Virgin Mother, Mediatrix of all graces, to enlighten her son and make him see that the TFP is a heretical sect because, in fact, although they do not say or write, the TFP lives and behaves according to a principle that fundamentally undermines the truth of Christendom, that is, of the Catholic Church.

    Indeed, it is de fide that Jesus Christ founded His Church - designed to keep the true worship of God on earth and to bring souls to eternal salvation - as an unequal society composed of two classes: one that governs, teaches, and sanctifies, composed of members of the clergy, and another - the faithful - who receive the teaching, are governed and sanctified: This is a dogma de fide.

    St. Pius X wrote that the Church is, in its own nature, an unequal society, meaning that it comprises two orders of persons: shepherds and flock, those belonging to the various levels of the hierarchy, and the multitude of the faithful. These two orders are so utterly distinct that only the hierarchy has the right and authority to guide and govern the members for the purposes of the Church, while the duty of the faithful is to let themselves to be governed and to obediently follow the given path by the ruling class. (Encyclical "Vehementer", February 11, 1906.) The whole history of the Church, as can be seen in the New Testament, attests to this truth as a fundamental dogma of the Church's constitution. It was only to the Apostles that Jesus said, "Go and teach all nations." Also the Acts of the Apostles show us the life of the Church in the times after Jesus Christ. Because of this, it is a heretical subversion to usually follow a layman - therefore a non-member of the Hierarchy - as a spokesman for orthodoxy. So they do not look at what the Church says, what the bishops say, but what this or that [layman] says... And it does not end there: this attitude - even if not openly stated - in fact positions the "leader" as the arbiter of orthodoxy, and is accompanied by a sudden but real mistrust of the hierarchy and clergy in general.

    There is a visceral anti-clericalism in the TFP: everything that comes from the clergy is biasedly received. Basically, it is affirmed that all priests are ignorant, lacking zeal or interested and such other characteristics. Well, thus, having in mind the divine constitution of the Church which was instituted by Jesus Christ, the habitual anti-clericalism of the TFP, latent, makes it a heretical sect, and therefore, as I said, animated by a principle contrary to established dogma by Jesus Christ in the constitution of His Church.

    The TFP, however, had a healthy beginning. There was a certain evolution in the apostolate made by the biweekly newspaper of the Marian Congregation of St. Cecilia entitled The Legionary.

    As a serious and well-intentioned movement, it sought to strengthen the intellectual and religious formation of the members of the Congregation and, consequently, of the biweekly readers. It was influential throughout Brazil. This was the era of [its] obedience to Monsignors Duarte and Leme. I followed and approved of its apostolate, also when it began to fall itself into the anti-clerical spirit, which began by consolidating its positions and then reversing them, putting the Clergy in tow behind a charismatic layman with the monopoly of orthodoxy. Maybe I gave them support beyond a licit point. I withdrew it only when it became clear that my warnings were not being taken into account. They have become useless.

    It is true to note that the deceptions of certain members of the Hierarchy... explain the scandal of the "TFPists", but this does not justify the positions they have taken. And much less for its leader, Plinio.

    In this case, as I said at the beginning of this letter, the remedy is to pray. First, because without prayer nothing is obtained: "Ask," says Our Lord, "and you will receive." It is necessary to pray because charismatic fervor produces a certain fanaticism: individuals become incapable of seeing the objective reality, of perceiving even fundamental errors, because of this inversion of following a layman instead of the legitimate Pastors of the Holy Church. 
    As I have noted, members of the hierarchy unfortunately and often utter words and take positions that any Catholic can see as dissonant of the doctrine and government of the Church of all times...

    I ask Our Lord to give you, and your whole family, a Holy and Merry Christmas and many years full of the grace of God.

    I pray that you pray for me, a servant in Christ Jesus.

    Antônio de Castro Mayer, Bishop Emeritus of Campos.
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    Offline Incredulous

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    Re: Letter of Bp. de Castro Mayer rejecting the TFP
    « Reply #1 on: June 25, 2019, 01:15:41 AM »
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  • Bp. Williamson has lectured that the suppression of lay Catholic action is just what the Jєωs desired.

    For lay Catholics to be controlled by clerical hirelings is the ʝʊdɛօ-masonic dream. 

    This is why they've engineered a spineless form of tradition to lead us, known as the neoSSPX.

    His Excellency even admitted that the destruction of lay Catholic action, such as Action Francaise and the Cristeros helped to put us in the catastrophe we're living in now.   Catholic men immobilized and paralyzed is just what the devil wants.

    So tell me Matthew, which clergy will lead us? 
    Are we still waiting for Broadstairs to lead us?   It hasn't happened.  It won't happen.

    The answer is clericalism is either unable or refuses to lead us anywhere.  

    Let the priests give the Sacraments, but it will be the lay Catholics who must lead & fight.


                Viva Cristo Rey!

    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi


    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: Letter of Bp. de Castro Mayer rejecting the TFP
    « Reply #2 on: June 25, 2019, 12:11:48 PM »
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  • Quote
    These two orders are so utterly distinct that only the hierarchy has the right and authority to guide and govern the members for the purposes of the Church, while the duty of the faithful is to let themselves to be governed and to obediently follow the given path by the ruling class.
    Been there, done that, it does not work if the priests have been compromised, the shepherds have been struck. The clergy has rarely led any uprising, they will always come in late when practically all is done already. 

    If the SSPX followed that advise, they would not exist. If the Neo-SSPX followed that advise they would be with the SSPX. If all the people here followed that, CathInfo would not exist. 



    The Vatican II church - Assisting Souls to Hell Since 1962

    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Mat 24:24

    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: Letter of Bp. de Castro Mayer rejecting the TFP
    « Reply #3 on: June 25, 2019, 12:44:11 PM »
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  • Quote
    These two orders are so utterly distinct that only the hierarchy has the right and authority to guide and govern the members for the purposes of the Church, while the duty of the faithful is to let themselves to be governed and to obediently follow the given path by the ruling class.

    Been there, done that, it does not work if the priests have been compromised, the shepherds have been struck. The clergy has rarely led any uprising, they will always come in late when practically all is done already.

    If the SSPX followed that advise, they would not exist. If the Neo-SSPX followed that advise they would be with the SSPX. If all the people here followed that, CathInfo would not exist.
    Not even Bp. de Castro Mayer followed his own advice, for he did not follow the pope or the ruling class. 
    The Vatican II church - Assisting Souls to Hell Since 1962

    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Mat 24:24

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Letter of Bp. de Castro Mayer rejecting the TFP
    « Reply #4 on: June 25, 2019, 01:23:28 PM »
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  • Well, given the fact that the clerics of the Church, the hierarchy, brought us Vatican II and the New Mass, perhaps the TFP could be excused from a touch of anti-clericalism.  In fact, R&R as a whole hardly differs from these sentiments, operating under the implication that the legitimately appointed clerical hierarchy of the Church can sometimes not be trusted.


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Letter of Bp. de Castro Mayer rejecting the TFP
    « Reply #5 on: June 25, 2019, 01:25:39 PM »
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  • Not even Bp. de Castro Mayer followed his own advice, for he did not follow the pope or the ruling class.

    Yes, this is right along the lines of what I was saying.  You'd have to be a sedevacantist not to labor under some degree of so-called anti-clericalism.  Reports are, by the way, that Bishop de Castro Mayer was in fact privately a sedevacantist.

    Offline Meg

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    Re: Letter of Bp. de Castro Mayer rejecting the TFP
    « Reply #6 on: June 25, 2019, 01:44:22 PM »
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  • There is a visceral anti-clericalism in the TFP: everything that comes from the clergy is biasedly received. Basically, it is affirmed that all priests are ignorant, lacking zeal or interested and such other characteristics. Well, thus, having in mind the divine constitution of the Church which was instituted by Jesus Christ, the habitual anti-clericalism of the TFP, latent, makes it a heretical sect, and therefore, as I said, animated by a principle contrary to established dogma by Jesus Christ in the constitution of His Church.

    The TFP, however, had a healthy beginning. There was a certain evolution in the apostolate made by the biweekly newspaper of the Marian Congregation of St. Cecilia entitled The Legionary.

    As a serious and well-intentioned movement, it sought to strengthen the intellectual and religious formation of the members of the Congregation and, consequently, of the biweekly readers. It was influential throughout Brazil. This was the era of [its] obedience to Monsignors Duarte and Leme. I followed and approved of its apostolate, also when it began to fall itself into the anti-clerical spirit, which began by consolidating its positions and then reversing them, putting the Clergy in tow behind a charismatic layman with the monopoly of orthodoxy. Maybe I gave them support beyond a licit point. I withdrew it only when it became clear that my warnings were not being taken into account. They have become useless.

    It is true to note that the deceptions of certain members of the Hierarchy... explain the scandal of the "TFPists", but this does not justify the positions they have taken. And much less for its leader, Plinio.

    I wasn't aware of the beginnings of TFP, in that it was originally obedient to Monsignors Duarte and Leme. I wonder at what point this obedience ended, and they began to be loyal (and obedient?) to Plinio.

    Bp. Castro de Mayer says that..."It is true that the deceptions of certain members of the hierarchy...explain the scandal of the "TFPists," but this does not justify the positions they have taken. And much less for its leader, Plinio."

    Bp. Mayer only mentions Plinio briefly, in the above statement. But of course his letter mainly focuses on the error of following a lay leader to the point of fanaticism.
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline Incredulous

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    Re: Letter of Bp. de Castro Mayer rejecting the TFP
    « Reply #7 on: June 25, 2019, 01:55:29 PM »
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  • Hey, thanks Bp. Castor de Mayer!   We need your prayers now, for sure :facepalm:





                 Our "Ruling Class"


    Argentine Marrano, Peℓσѕι said she prayed to St. Joseph for passage of Obamacare.
    But Rabbi Schumer flat-out believes all goyim should die under the supervision of тαℓмυdic health care.




    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi


    Offline Croixalist

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    Re: Letter of Bp. de Castro Mayer rejecting the TFP
    « Reply #8 on: June 25, 2019, 04:44:46 PM »
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  • The TFP is one thing, the TIA is another. When we talk about TIA around here, we place it under Atila's leadership and usually with the understanding that Atila is the only one carrying out Plinio's vision of what the TFP should have been. When we speak about the TFP, it's almost always in regards to its past with Plinio. The TFP as it is today hardly gets any airplay, but with Plinio and Atila gone they seem to have dialed back their initial fervor to the point that Bishop de Castro Mayer's condemnation hardly seems to fit them anymore, for better or worse. "Better" because they avoid getting involved with traditionalist infighting and "worse" because they shy away from VII.

    TIA on the other hand, seems to have proved beyond a shadow of doubt that they won't be content to merely contribute to the growing scholarly criticism of the VII/NO faction (their efforts here were fantastic), but they must also act as TFP apologists and hatchetmen using some of the weakest standards of investigative journalism I have ever seen. And now that they've continued to set their sights on Archbishop Lefebvre with no other cause than to say 'we did it first and we did it better,' they've only exposed themselves as a compromised organization.

    Note that when someone brought up the subject of Dr. Chojnowski's investigation of the two Lucys, all TIA could say was 'we did it first.' They couldn't be pleased that someone else was hoping to add to the discussion, they wanted all the credit :

    https://www.traditioninaction.org/Questions/B999_M026_Glorious.html
    (Re-discovering the Two Sister Lucys  letter)
    Fortuna finem habet.

    Offline Cera

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    Re: Letter of Bp. de Castro Mayer rejecting the TFP
    « Reply #9 on: June 25, 2019, 05:33:23 PM »
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  • Along the same lines of the OP, (Bishop Mayer's letter) is the Brazilian Bishops condemnation of TFP:

    . . .on April, 18 1985 the NCBB (National Council of Brazilian Bishops) condemned the group and ordered Catholics to have nothing to do with it. The response of the group has been to claim that its anti-Communist stance prompted the bishops’ opposition, and that the condemnation was just an “unsigned note.”


    On the contrary: the condemnation was written on the letterhead of the NCBB and published in several of Brazil’s largest newspapers. It is the misleading teachings of the group and the damage it has done to Catholic families that prompted the bishops’ warning, which characterized the group as a “cult of personality ” (meaning that they are giving excessive or worshipful devotion to their leader) and also accused the group of “abusing the name of Holy Mary.”


    The official nature of the notice was subsequently confirmed by the Under-Secretary General of the Brazilian Conference, Fr. Valentini Netto December 8, 1995.
    Meanwhile this group has spread to 25 countries and the same damage to souls and vocations is now becoming apparent in the US. Many good Catholics in this country have been misled into supporting TFP through one of its front campaigns, such as America Needs Fatima, which is currently the chief fund-raiser for the group. All moneys collected from the “free-will” offerings at the “Pilgrim Virgin” meetings go to TFP.

    more details here:
    https://ephesians511blog.com/2013/09/28/america-needs-fatima-a-cult-using-the-fatima-name/







    Pray for the consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary

    Offline Incredulous

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    Re: Letter of Bp. de Castro Mayer rejecting the TFP
    « Reply #10 on: June 25, 2019, 05:35:17 PM »
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  • In 2006, TIA published their extensive photographic comparisons, proving the new Sr. Lucy was a fake.

    In 49 years since Sr. Lucia's last public interview with Father Fuentes (1957), no one had ever noticed the imposter!



    The creative intuition, investigative methodologies, findings and hard work were essentially TIA's intellectual property.
    And they received no payments, but endured many harsh criticisms for it.  

    The dedication of all their work is "For Holy Mother Church!".

    But for those "with eyes to see", this work greatly benefited the traditional movement, by exposing ongoing, high-level Church corruption.

    And it was right at the time when Bp. Fellay was getting kissy-face with B16, telling us it was time for trads to come back to Rome.

    12 years later, Dr. Chojnowski locates some age-progresssion & biometrics technology and turns the topic into a media campaign...   for himself.  

    Here ya go Dr. Chojnowski... :applause: you're wonderful !



    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi


    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: Letter of Bp. de Castro Mayer rejecting the TFP
    « Reply #11 on: June 25, 2019, 06:30:19 PM »
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  • Along the same lines of the OP, (Bishop Mayer's letter) is the Brazilian Bishops condemnation of TFP:

    . . .on April, 18 1985 the NCBB (National Council of Brazilian Bishops) condemned the group and ordered Catholics to have nothing to do with it.
    The Brazilian Bishops were/are a bunch of sodomite liberation theology purveyors. Just three years later Abp. Lefebvre and Bp. de Castro Mayer were excommucated by Pope St. John Paul the Great, a much higher authority than the NCBB. 

    "People who live in glass houses should not throw stones". 
    The Vatican II church - Assisting Souls to Hell Since 1962

    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Mat 24:24

    Offline Cera

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    Re: Letter of Bp. de Castro Mayer rejecting the TFP
    « Reply #12 on: June 26, 2019, 04:56:31 PM »
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  • In 2006, TIA published their extensive photographic comparisons, proving the new Sr. Lucy was a fake.
    According to Most Holy Family Monastery, (not that I am a fan) TIA stole their research:
    https://www.mostholyfamilymonastery.com/catholic/two-sister-lucys-traditioninaction/

    We were definitely the first organization to come out with the facts that there was an impostor Sr. Lucy.  We had been referring to the false Sr. Lucy as an impostor for years on our website, and publicly stated that the Vatican’s Lucy is an impostor in issue #5 of our magazine, which was published years ago.  Our recent article was simply the detailed treatment containing all the facts and points about an issue we’d been saying things about for years.

    While the website to which you refer says that they haven’t yet “read” our analysis – that’s an interesting way of putting it considering that one can get the gist of what was being said without “reading” the entire thing but by looking quickly at the pictures – they didn’t deny that they were familiar with the article or that their idea to publish their own article came after hearing about or browsing through our exposé.  It’s almost certain that they were familiar with our article because a website which links to their articles and our articles had a major link with pictures to our treatment of the issue.  They may have browsed it without “reading” the entire thing.  And once they saw that this idea was now circulating due to our having “broken the story,” they then had the courage to do their own article seeing that others were already beginning to accept the idea on a wide scale.  That’s a key point: many people who don’t love God first and don’t stand for the truth will come out with things – even things they may have privately known were true for some time – only once the idea has already gained some popular support thanks to the stand of others, so that they can latch on to the now-popular bandwagon.
    Pray for the consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary

    Offline Cera

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    Re: Letter of Bp. de Castro Mayer rejecting the TFP
    « Reply #13 on: June 26, 2019, 05:00:56 PM »
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  • The Brazilian Bishops were/are a bunch of sodomite liberation theology purveyors. Just three years later Abp. Lefebvre and Bp. de Castro Mayer were excommucated by Pope St. John Paul the Great, a much higher authority than the NCBB.

    "People who live in glass houses should not throw stones".
    What you say does not make sense. It is nonsensical that a group of Bishops would complain about how the TFP cult "abused the name of Holy Mary" if they were actually what you and TFP/TIA claim they are.

    the condemnation was written on the letterhead of the NCBB and published in several of Brazil’s largest newspapers. It is the misleading teachings of the group and the damage it has done to Catholic families that prompted the bishops’ warning, which characterized the group as a “cult of personality ” (meaning that they are giving excessive or worshipful devotion to their leader) and also accused the group of “abusing the name of Holy Mary.”
    Pray for the consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary

    Offline songbird

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    Re: Letter of Bp. de Castro Mayer rejecting the TFP
    « Reply #14 on: June 26, 2019, 07:58:48 PM »
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  • And how is TFP money used, for what?