Author Topic: Letter of Appeal to the Faithful of the Resistance (Read 23314 times)

John Grace · « **Reply #15 on:** June 21, 2013, 02:46:33 PM »

Quote

Only a general desire to have the sacraments, which I think, really, ought not to be our primary, overriding concern.

This is the strongest argument put forward in Ireland. Where will one receive the sacraments or worry of being cut off from the sacraments?

The two options I have are

(a) the neo SSPX whilst holding my nose.
(b) Fr Bufe or wait for a priest to visit.

(b) is more likely.

What a scenario for Ireland given all the priests we sent out over the centuries.

Neil Obstat · « **Reply #16 on:** June 21, 2013, 03:00:38 PM »

Quote from: TheRecusant

Do I sense a reluctance to be seen agreeing with Br. Anthony...?

Bravo, Brother! I agree with you wholeheartedly!

Who is 'Brother Anthony'? Is he 'Ekim'? (apparently not......)

Quote

Quote from: Ekim
Can't throw the baby out with the bath water. Our Lord is still present, body, blood, soul and divinity at our local chapel of the SSPX. The priest does not, nor has he ever, spoken heresy. He has never promoted or encouraged any flavor of modernism. I can find no justification to deny Our Lord His Sunday obligation.

As good an argument as any I've ever heard for going to an Indult Mass when there's no SSPX in town..!

While I do not mean to sound harsh, and while I have no doubt this was meant sincerely, I do not see this as a compelling argument. In fact, it is no argument - otherwise it would also be an argument for going to an Indult Mass if one's nearest SSPX Mass were only monthly, for example.

If we wait until we hear heresy openly preached or until your SSPX priest starts offering the Novus Ordo it will be too late. The generation who lived through Vatican II and its aftermath had an excuse: nothing quite like that had happened before for a very long time if ever. There was no recent precedent.

We, on the other hand, do not have any excuse.

As has been said before, everyone needs to see for themselves what is the right thing to do. But I have yet to hear a really compelling argument for staying with the SSPX at this stage. Only a general desire to have the sacraments, which I think, really, ought not to be our primary, overriding concern.

And so, you're promoting what? If sacraments are not our primary,
overriding concern, then pray tell, what is?

You have not explained why you think that going to an Indult
Mass is a bad idea. You only imply that NOT going is a GOOD idea,
but without any specific reason!

To be clear, when it is only a matter of one single person, one has
a lot more freedom of choice, but when it involves a family with
children or at least a spouse, it gets more complicated:

"Where are we going to Mass this week, daddy? My friend Suzie
wants to know."

"Well, we can't go to St. Didacus because Fr. Marks is coming to
town and he's probably going to preach on making a 'deal' with
modernist Rome."

"Oh.... So, where can we go instead, to St. Stephen's?"

"Well, no, because they're sedevacantist, and we don't want to
even 'go there'."

ETC.

John Grace · « **Reply #17 on:** June 21, 2013, 03:25:55 PM »

Quote from: Neil Obstat

Quote from: TheRecusant
Do I sense a reluctance to be seen agreeing with Br. Anthony...?

Bravo, Brother! I agree with you wholeheartedly!

Who is 'Brother Anthony'? Is he 'Ekim'? (apparently not......)

Quote
Quote from: Ekim
Can't throw the baby out with the bath water. Our Lord is still present, body, blood, soul and divinity at our local chapel of the SSPX. The priest does not, nor has he ever, spoken heresy. He has never promoted or encouraged any flavor of modernism. I can find no justification to deny Our Lord His Sunday obligation.

As good an argument as any I've ever heard for going to an Indult Mass when there's no SSPX in town..!

While I do not mean to sound harsh, and while I have no doubt this was meant sincerely, I do not see this as a compelling argument. In fact, it is no argument - otherwise it would also be an argument for going to an Indult Mass if one's nearest SSPX Mass were only monthly, for example.

If we wait until we hear heresy openly preached or until your SSPX priest starts offering the Novus Ordo it will be too late. The generation who lived through Vatican II and its aftermath had an excuse: nothing quite like that had happened before for a very long time if ever. There was no recent precedent.

We, on the other hand, do not have any excuse.

As has been said before, everyone needs to see for themselves what is the right thing to do. But I have yet to hear a really compelling argument for staying with the SSPX at this stage. Only a general desire to have the sacraments, which I think, really, ought not to be our primary, overriding concern.

And so, you're promoting what? If sacraments are not our primary,
overriding concern, then pray tell, what is?

You have not explained why you think that going to an Indult
Mass is a bad idea. You only imply that NOT going is a GOOD idea,
but without any specific reason!

To be clear, when it is only a matter of one single person, one has
a lot more freedom of choice, but when it involves a family with
children or at least a spouse, it gets more complicated:

"Where are we going to Mass this week, daddy? My friend Suzie
wants to know."

"Well, we can't go to St. Didacus because Fr. Marks is coming to
town and he's probably going to preach on making a 'deal' with
modernist Rome."

"Oh.... So, where can we go instead, to St. Stephen's?"

"Well, no, because they're sedevacantist, and we don't want to
even 'go there'."

ETC.

If priests and laity had been more vocal some things could of been avoided. Imagine only last weekend some Irish people awakened to the betrayal by Bishop Fellay and the gang.

John Grace · « **Reply #18 on:** June 21, 2013, 03:29:36 PM »

Quote from: Ekim

Can't throw the baby out with the bath water. Our Lord is still present, body, blood, soul and divinity at our local chapel of the SSPX. The priest does not, nor has he ever, spoken heresy. He has never promoted or encouraged any flavor of modernism. I can find no justification to deny Our Lord His Sunday obligation.

This is not the fight between the Novus Ordo Mass and the Tridentine Mass, as it was after Vatican II. At that time Catholics were duty bound to abandon that masonic service because it was a danger to the faith. As +Williamson said, as well as the priests of the resistance, there are still many, many good priests in the SSPX. Granted the caution light should be blinking....BLINK! BLINK! BLINK! but the evacuation light has not yet been lit!

Granted, if your chapel is different then precautions must be taken. But the time for a blanket abandonment of Our Lord in the Blessed Sacrament has not come. To do so now would put a smile on Satan face...no doubt!

Out of interest what will be the line in the sand for you to leave a SSPX chapel? You are obviously applying the green,amber,red approach.

Raphaela · « **Reply #19 on:** June 21, 2013, 03:30:32 PM »

Leave - unless you or your children will really suffer, from a loss of faith, a loss of grace, or even from depression. A serious reason. But people had to stop going to Mass when the Novus Ordo came in. Archbishop Lefebvre, when asked about this, said it was better for people to save up and travel to the Traditional Mass a few times a year than to go to the Novus Ordo. It's true the NO is a direct danger to the faith, but the XSPX is now something just as bad - however good individual priests may be - they are, as a group, destroying the Catholic faith and abusing the sacraments. If they go, what's left?

By not going to your chapel, especially if your priest is good, you may help him join the Resistance - if he sees half his congregation disappear! So it may be just for a short time. He may join you.

Father Ringrose, in Priest, where is thy Mass? Mass, where is thy Priest? says he reached a point, when deciding to leave the Novus Ordo, when was prepared to sell shoes for a living and say the Traditional Mass in his room. This is a crisis for us like that.

But if it would be harmful for people personally to leave, they can stop supporting them financially.

John Grace · « **Reply #20 on:** June 21, 2013, 03:33:20 PM »

Quote

But if it would be harmful for people personally to leave, they can stop supporting them financially.

Given the revelations and information in Krahgate, I am rather surprised people are still giving the SSPX money. Why stop supporting financially now? Why not earlier?

John Grace · « **Reply #21 on:** June 21, 2013, 03:35:51 PM »

Quote

if he sees half his congregation disappear!

Not a notion of happening in Ireland until Bishop Fellay signs. Sorry!

Ekim · « **Reply #22 on:** June 21, 2013, 03:36:39 PM »

Hard to justify not keeping your Sunday obligation when there is no direct threat to your faith. My children sit in the pews, they hear excellent sermons that edify their soul...they receive the Body and Blood of Our Lord....they play with mostly good kids who are striving to grow in virtue.

Menzingens tenticles have not reached our chapel.

John Grace · « **Reply #23 on:** June 21, 2013, 03:38:01 PM »

Quote from: Ekim

Hard to justify not keeping your Sunday obligation when there is no direct threat to your faith. My children sit in the pews, they hear excellent sermons that edify their soul...they receive the Body and Blood of Our Lord....they play with mostly good kids who are striving to grow in virtue.

Menzingens tenticles have not reached our chapel.

Luther preached cracking sermons. Your point? You didn't really answer the question put to you by The Recusant. Sorry. I am getting annoyed.

John Grace · « **Reply #24 on:** June 21, 2013, 03:50:23 PM »

Lest WWIII breaks out the forum, it's fair to say very few pay heed to the internet fora judging by the blank faces at the Bishop Williamson conference in Ireland.

Expect to hear "Who is Max Krah?" in a few weeks time as word filters down.

To conclude my contribution to the thread, I don't envisage a mass exodus from SSPX chapels in Ireland.

Ekim · « **Reply #25 on:** June 21, 2013, 03:50:41 PM »

You'll be okay Mr. Grace. Hang in there little buckaroo.

I feel no obligation to answer any questions. There is no danger to my faith at my local chapel PERIOD! Sorry if that bothers some of you. I have no reason to deny Our Lord the worship He is due. Or deny my children the graces it affords. Who knows, this may not be the case when our priest is transfered, but for now, we're okay.

For others this may not be the case. If so, they must flee.

John Grace · « **Reply #26 on:** June 21, 2013, 03:55:34 PM »

Quote from: Ekim

You'll be okay Mr. Grace. Hang in there little buckaroo.

I feel no obligation to answer any questions. There is no danger to my faith at my local chapel PERIOD! Sorry if that bothers some of you. I have no reason to deny Our Lord the worship He is due. Or deny my children the graces it affords. Who knows, this may not be the case when our priest is transfered, but for now, we're okay.

For others this may not be the case. If so, they must flee.

Same obligation applies to us all. We all offer an opinion.

Quote

The posts on CathInfo are the words and opinions of the individual members who posted them, and do not reflect the views of CathInfo or its owner.

Ekim · « **Reply #27 on:** June 21, 2013, 03:59:06 PM »

If we wait until we hear heresy openly preached or until your SSPX priest starts offering the Novus Ordo it will be too late. The generation who lived through Vatican II and its aftermath had an excuse: nothing quite like that had happened before for a very long time if ever. There was no recent precedent.
We, on the other hand, do not have any excuse.

With all do respect, this aint Vatican II and this aint the New Mass. You are comparing two totaly differnt situations. Abandoning the false Mass of Vatican II for the True Mass is justified. The Noveu Ordo was and is a danger to the faith. Abandoning a valid Tridentine Mass which poses no danger to your faith and staying home and saying your Rosary (or however you keep the day holy) simply because you don't liek the polatics of an organization, is hard to justify.

John Grace · « **Reply #28 on:** June 21, 2013, 04:04:26 PM »

Quote from: Ekim

If we wait until we hear heresy openly preached or until your SSPX priest starts offering the Novus Ordo it will be too late. The generation who lived through Vatican II and its aftermath had an excuse: nothing quite like that had happened before for a very long time if ever. There was no recent precedent.
We, on the other hand, do not have any excuse.

With all do respect, this aint Vatican II and this aint the New Mass. You are comparing two totaly differnt situations. Abandoning the false Mass of Vatican II for the True Mass is justified. The Noveu Ordo was and is a danger to the faith. Abandoning a valid Tridentine Mass which poses no danger to your faith and staying home and saying your Rosary (or however you keep the day holy) simply because you don't liek the polatics of an organization, is hard to justify.

Ekim,

Put simply you are not going to rock the boat. Why the arrogance?

Matthew · « **Reply #29 on:** June 21, 2013, 04:08:42 PM »

How does it follow that a person isn't going to "rock the boat", just because he doesn't intend to red-light his chapel?

What if he's organizing for the Resistance and passing out materials, verbal and written, every chance he gets? What if everyone there, including the priest, knows all about his position?

You can't over-generalize, or make rash assumptions.