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Author Topic: Letter from Bishop Fellay to Bishop Williamson  (Read 54138 times)

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Offline hollingsworth

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Letter from Bishop Fellay to Bishop Williamson
« Reply #135 on: October 24, 2011, 12:18:06 PM »
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    You have reached a conclusion (Williamson doesn't have to obey Fellay), and are now frivolously searching for an elusive Catholic justification, which cannot be found, hence your defective answers and broad jumps in theology and logic.


    I attend an SSPX Chapel.  I'm not sure that +W has reached the conclusion that he no longer has to obey +F.  I think he has been fairly obedient to the SG thus far, with the exception of refusing to close down his Eleison Comments.  Whether or not +W is perfectly obedient is of no concern to me personally.  I believe that H.E. +W is the true successor to the Archbishop, and was always meant to be.  He is the true "shepherd" of the traditional Catholic sheep in this time of crisis.  +F is an interloper, a "hireling," as it were, who needs either to step down or be driven off, along with the likes of Frs. Phluger, Rostand, Heggenberger, et al.  Do I sound like I'm taking sides?  You bet I am.  Now ask me if I care.

    Offline Diego

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    Letter from Bishop Fellay to Bishop Williamson
    « Reply #136 on: October 24, 2011, 12:54:27 PM »
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  • Quote from: Caminus
    Quote from: Caminus
    I wonder why "Pinay" hasn't revealed his source.  Very curious.  BW's communication is not deemed private, but his source hides under anonimity?  Pinay justifies his refusal to reveal his source on the basis of the standards of "journalism."  At least he implicitly admits his actions have nothing to do with Catholic morality, so far as he is concerned.


    Bishop Williamson vetted the letter as authentic.

    What good reason then is there for knowing the source?

    Vain curiosity is not a good reason. Weaponizing the information is not a good reason.

    I support "Maurice" in keeping his source confidential.


    Offline hollingsworth

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    Letter from Bishop Fellay to Bishop Williamson
    « Reply #137 on: October 24, 2011, 01:30:08 PM »
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    I support "Maurice" in keeping his source confidential.

     
     
    I think that I know who the source is, but will not reveal it.  Why?  Because it will not change 'facts on the ground,' as they say.  There was a breach of confidence, no doubt.  The source was not authorized to release this letter, and Maurice Pinay was not authorized to reprint it.  Enough said.  Both the source of the letter and MP will have to live by the decision they made against the expressed will of the bishop.

    Offline Caminus

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    Letter from Bishop Fellay to Bishop Williamson
    « Reply #138 on: October 24, 2011, 01:53:00 PM »
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  • On the contrary, the source will likely reveal a motive.  "Weaponizing information"?  Sorry friend, that's already been done by the release of confidential information.  Concealing the source is pure hypocrisy.  Pinay is an IDIOT.

    Offline Diego

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    Letter from Bishop Fellay to Bishop Williamson
    « Reply #139 on: October 24, 2011, 02:17:52 PM »
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  • Quote from: Caminus
    On the contrary, the source will likely reveal a motive.  "Weaponizing information"?  Sorry friend, that's already been done by the release of confidential information.  Concealing the source is pure hypocrisy.  Pinay is an IDIOT.


    The motive that matters is the motive that prompted Bp. Fellay to pen the letter (and then claim the letter was an "accident").

    The salient fact is the fratricidal treatment of Bp. Williamson.

    Who and why someone shined a light into the dark is a distant concern, a diversion from the salient issue.  Yes, some would weaponize that information.

    You show no reason to have confidence in your assessment of "Maurice Pinay."





    Offline Diego

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    Offline ServusSpiritusSancti

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    Letter from Bishop Fellay to Bishop Williamson
    « Reply #141 on: October 24, 2011, 03:07:39 PM »
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  • Quote from: Caminus
    On the contrary, the source will likely reveal a motive.  "Weaponizing information"?  Sorry friend, that's already been done by the release of confidential information.  Concealing the source is pure hypocrisy.  Pinay is an IDIOT.


    Caminus, are you suggesting that letter is fake?
    Please ignore ALL of my posts. I was naive during my time posting on this forum and didn’t know any better. I retract and deeply regret any and all uncharitable or erroneous statements I ever made here.

    Offline Caminus

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    Letter from Bishop Fellay to Bishop Williamson
    « Reply #142 on: October 24, 2011, 03:12:52 PM »
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  • Quote from: Diego
    Quote from: Caminus
    On the contrary, the source will likely reveal a motive.  "Weaponizing information"?  Sorry friend, that's already been done by the release of confidential information.  Concealing the source is pure hypocrisy.  Pinay is an IDIOT.


    The motive that matters is the motive that prompted Bp. Fellay to pen the letter (and then claim the letter was an "accident").

    The salient fact is the fratricidal treatment of Bp. Williamson.

    Who and why someone shined a light into the dark is a distant concern, a diversion from the salient issue.  Yes, some would weaponize that information.

    You show no reason to have confidence in your assessment of "Maurice Pinay."





    Accident?  Where?  Fratricidal?  I suppose you have created your own definition of the term.  Why are you trying to divert attention from important information?  And I don't need to give you a reason regarding my "assessment" of "Pinay" besides the fact that it should be obvious to any right thinking Catholic.  He hides his source while violating the rights of two traditoinal Bishops all under the color of "Journalism"?  What a joke.  That sounds like something a тαℓмυdic Jew would say.  Your small circle contains many characters who have such ironic tendencies, e.g. Hoffman spouting condemned liberal Catholic error that has its source in Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ, which of course has its roots in Judaism.    


    Offline Diego

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    Letter from Bishop Fellay to Bishop Williamson
    « Reply #143 on: October 24, 2011, 04:00:30 PM »
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  • If you think it Catholic and even laudable for a bishop:

    (1) to publicly disparage a fellow bishop as "uranium" and "hand grenade"
    (2) to disparage "Anglo-Saxon circles"
    (3) to conflate the Holy Family, true Jews, with the ѕуηαgσgυє of Satan
    (4) to submit to "Jєωιѕн fables" (Titus 1:14) as though they were Catholic dogma
    (5) to fail to "Preach the word: be instant in season, out of season: reprove, entreat, rebuke in all patience and doctrine." (2 Timothy 4:2)
    (6) to make a Zionist influential in Society finances
    (7) to allow the flagship English-language publication to contradict St. Paul to canonize "The Saint of the Sanhedrin"
    "et cetera, et cetera, et cetera,"

    you reveal the value of your discernment and opinions.

    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Letter from Bishop Fellay to Bishop Williamson
    « Reply #144 on: October 24, 2011, 05:00:24 PM »
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  • Quote from: SpiritusSanctus
    First of all Seraphim, I never said that ordering Bishop Williamson to shut down his blog was against Catholic doctrine. Just because something isn't against Catholic doctrine does not mean that command must be followed. For instance, demanding that Archbishop LeFebvre didn't Consecrate Bishops was not against Catholic doctrine. Does that mean Archbishop LeFebvre should have obeyed JPII? Of course not, because if he did then the SSPX would no longer exist. That was precisely why the Vatican didn't want him to Consecrate those Bishops, and exactly why they excommunicated him and the Society after he did the Consecrations. The Vatican was furious that the Society would continue, so they excommuncated them in order for them not to be recognized by the Vatican II church.

    This isn't so much about Bishop Fellay trying to shut down EC. This is primarily about Fellay totally ignoring Archbishop LeFebvre's mission by trying to "reconcile" with modernists who have no interest in bringing back Tradition. None of the other three Bishops in the Society seem very interested in reconciling, yet Bishop Fellay apparently thinks it will achieve something.

    But exactly what would it achieve? The approval of Novus Ordites? What Bishop Fellay needs to realize is that even if the Society becomes "regularlized" it won't make the modernists listen to them or like them anymore. Take the Fraternity of St. Peter for example. They're "in communion" with Rome, but do the modernists acknowledge them or act is if they exist? No, because they don't like Tradition or the Traditional Latin Mass. So if they don't follow the FSSP, what makes you, Bishop Fellay, or anyone else think they would follow the SSPX if they are "regularlized"? They don't even acknowledge that Benedict lifted the Society's excommunications two years ago, they still say the Society is "schismatic" and "offers illicit Masses". Even if a reconciliation occurs, they'll keep saying the same things unless the Society accepts Vatican II and the Novus Ordo.

    The fact is, liberals and modernists only obey the Pope when he does something liberal. Oh, but when he does something even remotely Traditional (like release the Motu Proprio) they completely ignore him and what he does. And they accuse Traditional Catholics of not obeying the Pope! Look at the double standard!

    So Bishop Fellay is wasting his time trying to reconcile. It's pointless. The ONLY thing it would accomplish would be getting a few more semi-Trads to show up at their chapels. That's it.


       Then I consider the case closed:

       You have just admitted the order to close down EC does not violate faith or morals.

       The necessary conclusion, therefore, is obedience must be rendered.

       But you don't like that conclusion (Which means your beef is not with me, but with Jesus and His Church and His moral law).

       I doubt you will be able to find higher authority to overrule Him.

    PS: I fully realize you will fall back to the entirely gratuitous "No bishop can bind another bishop" rationale (For which 16 pages of comments have been unable to provide a citation, and for which 2011 years of Church history provide countless examples of refutation).

    PPS: After this, you will further regress to "Sure bishops can bind other bishops, but these bishops do not exercise ordinary jurisdiction."  In which case, you have just pulled the rug out from under every sedevacantist and entirelyeliminated the doctrine of necessity from the corpus of Catholic doctrine.  Quite an impressive feet!  Did you stop to realize that after doing so, there is nothing left but obedience to modernism or the fictitious "lone bishop in the woods?"
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline Caminus

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    Letter from Bishop Fellay to Bishop Williamson
    « Reply #145 on: October 24, 2011, 07:42:36 PM »
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  • Quote from: Diego
    If you think it Catholic and even laudable for a bishop:

    (1) to publicly disparage a fellow bishop as "uranium" and "hand grenade"
    (2) to disparage "Anglo-Saxon circles"
    (3) to conflate the Holy Family, true Jews, with the ѕуηαgσgυє of Satan
    (4) to submit to "Jєωιѕн fables" (Titus 1:14) as though they were Catholic dogma
    (5) to fail to "Preach the word: be instant in season, out of season: reprove, entreat, rebuke in all patience and doctrine." (2 Timothy 4:2)
    (6) to make a Zionist influential in Society finances
    (7) to allow the flagship English-language publication to contradict St. Paul to canonize "The Saint of the Sanhedrin"
    "et cetera, et cetera, et cetera,"

    you reveal the value of your discernment and opinions.


    Your contrived, distorted "laundry" list is as laughable as it is distorted.  One truly does wonder why you continue to distract from the question at hand.  Indeed, you reveal the "value of your discernment" which is caused by the same disproportion and lack of judgment that has caused many a man to fall from grace.  But I don't suppose I can derail that one-track mind of yours, so I shall let it rest and let your sad tactics speak for themselves.  


    Offline hollingsworth

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    Letter from Bishop Fellay to Bishop Williamson
    « Reply #146 on: October 24, 2011, 08:28:24 PM »
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    The motive that matters is the motive that prompted Bp. Fellay to pen the letter (and then claim the letter was an "accident").


    Sounds pretty desperate, doesn't he?  It will be the first letter ever, to my knowledge, deliberately written, posted as an email, or sent snail mail, and then explained away later as an "accident."  

    Offline Caminus

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    Letter from Bishop Fellay to Bishop Williamson
    « Reply #147 on: October 24, 2011, 08:43:18 PM »
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  • Quote from: hollingsworth
    Quote
    The motive that matters is the motive that prompted Bp. Fellay to pen the letter (and then claim the letter was an "accident").


    Sounds pretty desperate, doesn't he?  It will be the first letter ever, to my knowledge, deliberately written, posted as an email, or sent snail mail, and then explained away later as an "accident."  


    Where did he say this?

    Offline Diego

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    Letter from Bishop Fellay to Bishop Williamson
    « Reply #148 on: October 24, 2011, 09:02:32 PM »
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  • Quote from: Caminus

    Your contrived, distorted "laundry" list ...blah, blah, blah.  


    Thank you for your opinion.

    Offline Caminus

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    Letter from Bishop Fellay to Bishop Williamson
    « Reply #149 on: October 24, 2011, 09:32:58 PM »
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  • You're welcome, thank you for showing once again your evasion.