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Author Topic: Letter from Bishop Fellay to Bishop Williamson  (Read 35900 times)

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Offline Ethelred

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Letter from Bishop Fellay to Bishop Williamson
« Reply #15 on: October 14, 2011, 02:08:15 AM »
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  • This letter is vicious. Just disgusting. How can Menzingen dare to forbid the preaching of an exceptionally gifted shepherd. They cry for the wrath of God!

    I heard from a trustfully source that the letter is authentic, but confidential. I'm sure Bishop Williamson didn't publish it, and so he's not to blame.

    Now it's in the open. And the world sees Menzingen unmasked. This is a problem, because the Newpope B16 cannot want Bishop Williamson to start a traditional branch when Newrome is about to bag the SSPX. So the Newpope's entire gilded cage for the SSPX would be pointless.


    Bishop Williamson, man of God, for the sake of all people of good will on earth, please continue your gracious Eleison Comments -- if it's at all possible! You know well that the Scourge of God will soon hit the earth, but until then we need every spiritual help we can get. Yours is excellent, your Excellency.


    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Letter from Bishop Fellay to Bishop Williamson
    « Reply #16 on: October 14, 2011, 06:27:22 AM »
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  • Quote from: Ethelred
    This letter is vicious. Just disgusting. How can Menzingen dare to forbid the preaching of an exceptionally gifted shepherd. They cry for the wrath of God!

    I heard from a trustfully source that the letter is authentic, but confidential. I'm sure Bishop Williamson didn't publish it, and so he's not to blame.

    Now it's in the open. And the world sees Menzingen unmasked. This is a problem, because the Newpope B16 cannot want Bishop Williamson to start a traditional branch when Newrome is about to bag the SSPX. So the Newpope's entire gilded cage for the SSPX would be pointless.


    Bishop Williamson, man of God, for the sake of all people of good will on earth, please continue your gracious Eleison Comments -- if it's at all possible! You know well that the Scourge of God will soon hit the earth, but until then we need every spiritual help we can get. Yours is excellent, your Excellency.


       Unfortunately, you have it exactly backwards: This plays perfectly into the hands of BXVI, Bishop Fellay, and Krah/Jєωs: They now have their excuse to axe Bishop WIlliamson (which was almost certainly the plan all along, since the Jєωs object to him, as does Rome).

       They couldn't care less about Bishop Williamson trotting off on his own with a marginal number of clergy (5 at most).

       This indiscretion by Bishop Williamson and Pinnay just pulled the last teeth out of the SSPX.
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."


    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Letter from Bishop Fellay to Bishop Williamson
    « Reply #17 on: October 14, 2011, 06:28:57 AM »
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  • Quote from: Seraphim
    Quote from: Ethelred
    This letter is vicious. Just disgusting. How can Menzingen dare to forbid the preaching of an exceptionally gifted shepherd. They cry for the wrath of God!

    I heard from a trustfully source that the letter is authentic, but confidential. I'm sure Bishop Williamson didn't publish it, and so he's not to blame.

    Now it's in the open. And the world sees Menzingen unmasked. This is a problem, because the Newpope B16 cannot want Bishop Williamson to start a traditional branch when Newrome is about to bag the SSPX. So the Newpope's entire gilded cage for the SSPX would be pointless.


    Bishop Williamson, man of God, for the sake of all people of good will on earth, please continue your gracious Eleison Comments -- if it's at all possible! You know well that the Scourge of God will soon hit the earth, but until then we need every spiritual help we can get. Yours is excellent, your Excellency.


       Unfortunately, you have it exactly backwards: This plays perfectly into the hands of BXVI, Bishop Fellay, and Krah/Jєωs: They now have their excuse to axe Bishop WIlliamson (which was almost certainly the plan all along, since the Jєωs object to him, as does Rome).

       They couldn't care less about Bishop Williamson trotting off on his own with a marginal number of clergy (5 at most).

       This indiscretion by Bishop Williamson and Pinnay just pulled the last teeth out of the SSPX.


    ....and as I said before, you will find no sedevacantism in Bishop WIlliamson.
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline TKGS

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    Letter from Bishop Fellay to Bishop Williamson
    « Reply #18 on: October 14, 2011, 06:32:45 AM »
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  • Quote from: Seraphim
    Apparenty the Moderators on this forum prefer the expulsion of Bishop Williamson, and therefore choose to leave this thread intact?

    If so, you are deceived about being able to have Bishop Williamson promote sedevacantism if (or now, when) he gets expelled.

    Your treachery will yield you no benefit.

    You have only weakened tradition this noght.

    Nothing more.


    Somehow, I doubt that the Vatican and the SSPX leadership log onto CathInfo every day searching for dirt, hanging on to every comment and topic critical of the Society.

    Methinks you take yourself a little too seriously.

    Offline Thursday

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    Letter from Bishop Fellay to Bishop Williamson
    « Reply #19 on: October 14, 2011, 07:00:00 AM »
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  • Quote from: Seraphim
    Quote from: Ethelred
    This letter is vicious. Just disgusting. How can Menzingen dare to forbid the preaching of an exceptionally gifted shepherd. They cry for the wrath of God!

    I heard from a trustfully source that the letter is authentic, but confidential. I'm sure Bishop Williamson didn't publish it, and so he's not to blame.

    Now it's in the open. And the world sees Menzingen unmasked. This is a problem, because the Newpope B16 cannot want Bishop Williamson to start a traditional branch when Newrome is about to bag the SSPX. So the Newpope's entire gilded cage for the SSPX would be pointless.


    Bishop Williamson, man of God, for the sake of all people of good will on earth, please continue your gracious Eleison Comments -- if it's at all possible! You know well that the Scourge of God will soon hit the earth, but until then we need every spiritual help we can get. Yours is excellent, your Excellency.


       Unfortunately, you have it exactly backwards: This plays perfectly into the hands of BXVI, Bishop Fellay, and Krah/Jєωs: They now have their excuse to axe Bishop WIlliamson (which was almost certainly the plan all along, since the Jєωs object to him, as does Rome).

       They couldn't care less about Bishop Williamson trotting off on his own with a marginal number of clergy (5 at most).

       This indiscretion by Bishop Williamson and Pinnay just pulled the last teeth out of the SSPX.


    This was inevitable, Bishop Williamson was already gagged and confined, what good was he doing the SSPX sending his letter out every week (not that the faithful doesn't benefit from it). How could he stop this sellout (if it is indeed a sellout) from happening if the superior of the SSPX considers him "uranium"? How long do you expect him sit there muzzled?


    Offline Thursday

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    Letter from Bishop Fellay to Bishop Williamson
    « Reply #20 on: October 14, 2011, 07:16:06 AM »
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  • "I would be happy to invite you to the SSPX Superiors’ meeting to be held in Albano early in October, as the nature and composition of the meeting has been somewhat changed because of current events. I would also be happy to send you a text from Rome to which they want a reply. However, I find myself obliged to attach conditions to each of these points.

    Firstly, as to the text, I ask of you an oath in writing that you will communicate to nobody either the text or its content. Too often in the past you have lacked discretion, so I am obliged to submit you to a procedure of this kind, which I am not happy to have to do.

    Secondly, as to the meeting in Albano, I can only invite you to attend insofar as you stop publishing Eleison Comments. You have already been given the reason several times, as you have been given the order to stop."


    So, it appears that Bishop Williamson has two choices. He can be present at these meeting s and look at the preamble if he produces an oath in writing that he will not reveal its contens AND that he will stop publishing his online letter. Why doesn't Bp Fellay just ask him to drop dead? For all practical purposes Bishop Williamson has already been kicked out of the SSPX.

    Offline Ethelred

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    Letter from Bishop Fellay to Bishop Williamson
    « Reply #21 on: October 14, 2011, 08:16:15 AM »
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  • Quote from: Seraphim
    Unfortunately, you have it exactly backwards: This plays perfectly into the hands of BXVI, Bishop Fellay, and Krah/Jєωs:

    I think that Maurice had no right to publish the letter. But now it's too late.
    Where this situation plays into, we'll have to see. God will have the last word, and I know Bishop Williamson is on HIS side.

    Quote
    They now have their excuse to axe Bishop WIlliamson (which was almost certainly the plan all along, since the Jєωs object to him, as does Rome).

    Not the ostrich-like way please!

    Menzingen tries to axe the good Bishop for about three years now. (And that's why, for example, Krah who works for Bp Fellay and other superiors could insult Bishop Williamson constantly.)

    Bishop Fellay wrote in this letter that he "ordered" to stop the Eleison Comments several times. So Bishop Williamson had a good time to think in peace about continuing or discontinuing his graceful preaching. Could this be the reason for the nice new web-site www.dinoscopus.org which went online just a few weeks ago?  

    Indeed nobody has the right to stop a good bishop from fulfilling his duty to preach and defend the Faith.
    Unfortunately the double-thinking Bishop Fellay doesn't understand it because for several years he's not defending the whole faith anymore -- for example when he fawns upon the first and most vicious enemies of our Lord Jesus Christus, the anti-christian Jєωs, and propagates Vatican II untruths like "The Jєωs are our elder brothers" etc.

    Quote
    They couldn't care less about Bishop Williamson trotting off on his own with a marginal number of clergy (5 at most).

    Newrome cares.

    Unfortunately no majority of the SSPX priests support Bishop Williamson (which shows the bad state of the society). But you give a random shot by saing "5 at most". Or do you mean just the German-speaking zone? Because then you would be about right. :-)

    Quote
    This indiscretion by Bishop Williamson and Pinnay just pulled the last teeth out of the SSPX.

    That's an unfair accusation against Bishop Williamson. Don't do it.

    Let's wait and see what happens.

    Offline Ethelred

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    Letter from Bishop Fellay to Bishop Williamson
    « Reply #22 on: October 14, 2011, 08:21:14 AM »
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  • Quote from: Thursday
    So, it appears that Bishop Williamson has two choices. He can be present at these meeting s and look at the preamble if he produces an oath in writing that he will not reveal its contens AND that he will stop publishing his online letter.

    That's a precise and good summary.

    Quote
    Why doesn't Bp Fellay just ask him to drop dead? For all practical purposes Bishop Williamson has already been kicked out of the SSPX.

    Yes, that's the point.


    Offline hollingsworth

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    Letter from Bishop Fellay to Bishop Williamson
    « Reply #23 on: October 14, 2011, 09:19:01 AM »
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  • Ethelred:
    Quote
    I heard from a trustfully source that the letter is authentic, but confidential. I'm sure Bishop Williamson didn't publish it, and so he's not to blame.


    Yes, I too have heard from the most trustworthy of sources.  The letter is genuine, and Bp. W did NOT publish it.  However, the matter has been handled rather carelessly, and whether or not the bishop must bear some responsibility for that carelessness, the jury is still out.

    Offline Anna1959

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    Letter from Bishop Fellay to Bishop Williamson
    « Reply #24 on: October 14, 2011, 10:16:42 AM »
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  • Quote from: ManofGosh
    Half my family was confirmed by Bishop Williamson, and the other half by Bishop Fellay, and one lonesome to Bishop Tissier. I have been to the seminary(to visit) and met them there also.  

    May the Lord keep safe and united the Bishops of the SSPX!

    Mary Queen of Heaven, pray for us!
    St. Pius X, pray for us!
    ArchBishop Lefebvre, pray for us!


    I was confirmed by Archbishop Lefebvre, so where does that leave me? Which side do you think he would be with? I'd say Bp Williamson!
    "If I am not in the state of grace, may the Lord put me in it. And if I am in the state of grace, may the Lord keep me in it".--St Jehanne D'Arc, during her trial.

    Offline romanitaspress

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    Letter from Bishop Fellay to Bishop Williamson
    « Reply #25 on: October 14, 2011, 10:50:31 AM »
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  • I think some points need clarification in light of some erroneous comments:

    1. A superior general has the authority to ask (command) the members of his religious congregation to obey his requests - and yes, this applies even to a bishop. This would even apply if the superior general were a priest and one of the members were a bishop.

    2. A bishop can in fact be commanded to cease preaching, either completely or partially. Remember, a bishop receives his mandate to preach the Gospel from the Church, that is, through her ecclesiastical authorities (to whom he swears obedience during his episcopal consecration), either the pope, the metropolitan archbishop, the local ordinary or the superior general of a religious congregation.

    3. As we see related in the lives of the saints, sometimes obedience is required even when this is perceived to be a lack of a good - but in reality, it is actually preserving the good.

    4. This is an internal issue of the SSPX - thus it is really none of our business. Instead of contributing to the work of the Devil by making absurd speculations and even posting false rumors (which is calumny mind you), we should instead do the work of Heaven and pray for the SSPX, Bishop Fellay and Bishop Williamson. That is the best service we can render to the Church at this moment.


    Offline Matthew

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    Letter from Bishop Fellay to Bishop Williamson
    « Reply #26 on: October 14, 2011, 11:07:18 AM »
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  • Quote from: romanitaspress
    I think some points need clarification in light of some erroneous comments:

    1. A superior general has the authority to ask (command) the members of his religious congregation to obey his requests - and yes, this applies even to a bishop. This would even apply if the superior general were a priest and one of the members were a bishop.

    2. A bishop can in fact be commanded to cease preaching, either completely or partially. Remember, a bishop receives his mandate to preach the Gospel from the Church, that is, through her ecclesiastical authorities (to whom he swears obedience during his episcopal consecration), either the pope, the metropolitan archbishop, the local ordinary or the superior general of a religious congregation.

    3. As we see related in the lives of the saints, sometimes obedience is required even when this is perceived to be a lack of a good - but in reality, it is actually preserving the good.

    4. This is an internal issue of the SSPX - thus it is really none of our business. Instead of contributing to the work of the Devil by making absurd speculations and even posting false rumors (which is calumny mind you), we should instead do the work of Heaven and pray for the SSPX, Bishop Fellay and Bishop Williamson. That is the best service we can render to the Church at this moment.


    With regard to #2 -- isn't that the same as a suspension?
    Didn't Archbishop Lefebvre, (and possibly others in the SSPX) flagrantly violate Rome's "suspension" of his faculties? Because it was unjust; Rome had been taken over by Modernists. So the greater good demanded that this particular bishop continue preaching the Holy Catholic Faith.

    The SSPX could easily go astray as well. So although the Traditional movement is legitimate (disobeying the Pope and other superiors in Rome, consecrating bishops without mandate, etc.), Bishop Williamson couldn't do the same thing when a mere BRANCH of the Church gets infiltrated or goes astray?

    There are a LOT of things that are normally done, but must be set aside during a time of crisis.

    And #3 is very, very dangerous to promote in 2011. Yes, obedience is a great virtue, but if I wholeheartedly took you up on that I might find myself gritting my teeth during Novus Ordo services every Sunday! No thanks.

    I suppose God calls some to heroic obedience -- but that doesn't include me (or many others on this board, I imagine) Instead, we're being called to heroic faith, heroic trust/hope, heroic rejection of human respect, heroic sacrifice of the company of friends and even family, sacrifices to attend the Traditional Mass, etc.

    Regarding #4 -- what false rumors are you speaking of? I agree that people shouldn't make things up and post it as if true. But I'm going to give the membership here the benefit of the doubt that no one is posting things that he himself knows to be false!

    But I disagree that it's an internal issue that doesn't affect us. It affects all Catholics who attend their chapels, and all traditional Catholics in general to a lesser extent. It is most certainly "my business" and "my concern".

    And I agree that prayer is advisable, but keep in mind that there is a time to pray, and a time to fight. (I suppose there is also a time to do both!)
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    Offline ManofGosh

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    Letter from Bishop Fellay to Bishop Williamson
    « Reply #27 on: October 14, 2011, 11:14:27 AM »
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  • Quote from: Anna1959
    Quote from: ManofGosh
    Half my family was confirmed by Bishop Williamson, and the other half by Bishop Fellay, and one lonesome to Bishop Tissier. I have been to the seminary(to visit) and met them there also.  

    May the Lord keep safe and united the Bishops of the SSPX!

    Mary Queen of Heaven, pray for us!
    St. Pius X, pray for us!
    ArchBishop Lefebvre, pray for us!


    I was confirmed by Archbishop Lefebvre, so where does that leave me? Which side do you think he would be with? I'd say Bp Williamson!


    ArchBishop Lefebvre would have been for unity of the four Bishops he hand selected and ordained. He selected four on purpose not just because it sounded cool. They would always be able to have Bishops if one died, because the others could ordain a replacement.


    P.S. I do think it is a blessing you were confirmed by Archbishop Lefebvre.
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    Offline sedetrad

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    Letter from Bishop Fellay to Bishop Williamson
    « Reply #28 on: October 14, 2011, 11:17:07 AM »
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  • Good Catholics, what is all this secrecy? Dictator Fellay should follow the principles of his superior -- that is, if he even acknowledges Jesus Christ as his superior -- Who told the corrupt leader of the Church of His time, Caiphas: "I have spoken openly to the world ... in secret I have spoken nothing" (John 18:20/DRV). Benedict-Ratzinger's "Doctrinal Preamble," actually a Vatican II Doctrinal Ultimatum, involves a question of Catholic doctrine, which is public. Clearly, Fellay wants to engineer some kind of dirty backroom deal with Ratzinger to sell out the Neo-SSPX without any accountability to the SSPX membership. Fellay should be more careful. "What goes around comes around." His dirty dealing will likely come back to hit him aside the head and dash forever the visions of scarlet dancing in his head!


    I normally hate traditio , but I thought the above was pretty good.

    Offline gladius_veritatis

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    Letter from Bishop Fellay to Bishop Williamson
    « Reply #29 on: October 14, 2011, 11:18:29 AM »
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  • Quote from: romanitaspress
    I think some points need clarification in light of some erroneous comments:


    So do I...

    Quote
    A superior general has the authority to ask (command) the members of his religious congregation to obey...


    Does the SSPX have any real canonical standing during this time in the desert?  Tis rather doubtful.

    The fact that Bp Fellay is, or might at some stage become, a sellout in a manner that could affect all who support the SSPX is not a merely "internal issue" of the SSPX.

    These times are not normal; stop acting as if they are.  If -- IF -- Bp Fellay is, in fact, some kind of sellout, rat, what have you, he needs to be taken to task for it and exposed for what he is.  FWIW, the SSPX only began because some Catholics spoke out, resisted those in authority, fought for the common good, etc.  What is good for the goose is good for the gander.  Godspeed.
    "Fear God, and keep His commandments: for this is all man."