I do not think that JP2 and J23 were saints, nor P6 a blessed.

They have been enemies of the traditions of the church, traditions to which one must be united if they can have any hope of salvation.

The declaration by Francis ( still not sure whether he is a valid pope or not), is faulty, because we clearly know that their causes, as the cause of Francis will soon be, are advanced exclusively by fooled novus ordo false Catholics, and by the enemies of the church.

Where are the saints that those loyal to the church and her doctrine and traditions promote?
They are to be found being martyred in some afar off country for refusing to deny Jesus Christ.

Meanwhile, the apostate "mother theresa" whose spiritual education came from a paedophile, a woman whose physical ugliness showed forth the ugliness of her soul that no longer believed in mortal sin, was photographed praying to buddha. And if this were not enough, she encouraged hindus to pray to the devils they worship. The apostate was declared a blessed, which is obviously a false statement, because it is not true, and it can not ever be true, that "mother theresa" or any of these new purported saints and blesseds can be in heaven. They cannot even be in purgatory. They have died in a state in which they denied the Catholic faith and adopted their own comfertable and world approved religious ideas which they claim are Catholic but are not.

It is clear that something is gravely wrong with the vatican when these things happen.
As if the lavender mafia was not bad enough, now the man whom we think is pope shoves false saints down our throats. You cannot pray to someone who is in hell, nor can you pray for them.
The truth is that we have no reason to even have the slightest hope that any of these people even went to purgatory. No recant of their apostasy was ever made.

This is what happens when the church gets taken over by freemasons.
Perhaps it is time for us to call some sort of council of our own including the SSPX CMRI SSPV and other trad groups, with the intention of resolving once and for all, whether or not we must sever ties with the vatican, and perhaps even elect a true pope.

It's not our job to fix the Church.  That belongs to God.  We have neither the authority nor competence.

It's not our job to fix the Church.  That belongs to God.  We have neither the authority nor competence.

The heresy of Quietism.

It's not our job to fix the Church.  That belongs to God.  We have neither the authority nor competence.

So then let's all do nothing and let God fix it.

I don't share that view. As a Catholic, I believe that faith without works is useless. We need action of course.

Who can deny that there are impostors in the clergy? Do nothing my friends, let the impostors ravage the Church.  I think not.

What do you propose exactly?  Petitioning the sede bishops to elect a pope?

MariaCatherine is right, a conclavist election carried out by laymen will be illegal, invalid and schismatic. St. Robert and other Doctors teach that the power and right to elect a Pope, after the Cardinals, belongs to the Roman clergy alone. They may choose to depend in doing this on a general Council of the world's Ordinaries.

It is de fide that there will always be Ordinaries (bishops appointed to a see by the Pope) and Roman clergy (clerics incardinated into the diocese of Rome by a Pope) in the Church, and they alone together have the power and right to proceed to doing such things as electing a Pope. If you believe otherwise, the Faith itself should remind you that you are mistaken.

What do you propose exactly?  Petitioning the sede bishops to elect a pope?

It is the responsibility of the valid Catholic bishops to rebuild Christ's Church and this includes His hierarchy. The "bishop" of my diocese does pilgrimages with Buddhist monks and other stunts. I doubt he is a Catholic considering the extent of the influence of the Lodge in this diocese and country. Bergoglio invited the Freemason Jєωs in the Cathedral of his diocese to desecrate the temple. It's little wonder why a well-known Argentinian resistance priest refuses to say the name in the canon if he never said his name in the Canon when he was the "Archbishop".



On the other hand, if the Catholic bishops do not rebuild the Church and it's dioceses than God will surely destroy this world because as Catholics we know that there are only a few possible solutions.
1 The crisis will end and the Church will be rebuilt.

Or

2 The world will come to an end because the Church will remain in the world until the end of time.


There are more than just "sede bishops" with questionable consecrations that are responsible. It should start with the "Conciliar clergy", the Uniate and Eastern Rite bishops, and the SSPX bishops and include the "Sede clergy" if possible. Of course, healing this crisis will involve many sub conditione ordinations and consecrations as a starting point.

We need a Catholic version of martin luther.

The theory of the so-called missio extraordinaria is untenable. The Church of Christ will continue to the end of time, unchanged in all her essential elements, one of which is the ordinary and legitimate Apostolic succession of her teachers and rulers. For the same reason she will never at any time lack the missio ordinaria and apostolica.

Consequently, there is no room for an extraordinary mission (missio extraordinaria) of the kind invented by orthodox Protestantism to support its false view of the nature of the Church. The 16th century Reformers deemed it possible that the Church of Christ could err so profoundly in matters of faith and morals that no suitable rulers could be set up by ordinary human means, and those still in office could no longer be employed with advantage for the salvation of souls. In that case, they held, God would send men with an extraordinary mission to reform His Church. Such a man, e. g., was Martin Luther.

We hold that such an extraordinary mission is incompatible with the nature and organization of the Church. She can never be without the Apostolic succession, which is based upon the ordinary and Apostolic mission.

Succession may be material or formal. Material succession consists in the fact that there have never been lacking persons who have continuously been substituted for the Apostles ; formal succession consists in the fact that these substituted persons truly enjoy authority derived from the Apostles and received from him who is able to communicate it.

For someone to be made a successor of the Apostles and pastor of the Church, the power of order — which is always validly conferred by virtue of ordination — is not enough; the power of jurisdiction is also required, and this is conferred not by virtue of ordination but by virtue of a mission received from him to whom Christ has entrusted the supreme power over the universal Church.

The suggestions being made in this thread are reckless and not properly informed by Catholic principles.