Quote from: John Grace

...the alleged fact of Fr Angles having a car belonging to Hitler.

 :dancing-banana:  
Huh?  What has this to do with a Rosary Crusade?  BTW, what kind of car did Hitler drive?

Nothing.I concluded with the comment that I agree with the suggestion and analysis of The Recusant.

 :dancing-banana:
When JP2 came to NY, you could buy special bath soap in the shape of the Pope.  It was marketed as "Pope on a Rope." It came in liturgical colors except for black!  I found a picture on Google, but don't know how to post it!

Quote from: cantatedomino

Let us refrain from praying separate Rosary Crusades, but let us participate in the new SSPX Rosary Crusade. The reasons for this reside in the fruits of the previous Rosary Crusades:

a. The covert modernism of the SSPX leadership was publicly unmasked, as was its real agenda.

b. Whatever deal was in the works was trounced.

c. Abdication of BXVI and ascendency of Bergoglio - which ascendance unmasked rome so radically that even the novus ordos are having a hard time denying.

d. Consequences of c) vis a vis the SSPX - it is now out in the open what Menzingen was actually planning to go to bed with, and also how corrupt an idea making a deal with the head of the beast really is.

God is not asking you to boycott this Rosary Crusade. The devil is asking you to. The last thing he wants is for the folk that have been divided from one another and set to war against each other to unite once more under the Banner of the Immaculate to pray for his extirpation.

Do you think yourself too holy to pray a Rosary Crusade called for by Bishop Bernard Fellay? Do you think that your perfect and most pure prayers will be sullied by acquiescing to this man's request for your help? Are you afraid of soiling yourself by praying with him?

I'm not. I'm going to pray with him and for him. If he has secret intentions that are against the Lord and against the Holy Faith, God will not hear him. But God will hear the prayers of the just who pray for the publicly stated - and very necessary - petitions:

1. May God protect, defend, and right the traditionalist counter-revolution.

2. May God convert modernists and make them Catholics.

3. May God finally grant us the Consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary.

No. Prayer is not powerful--what's powerful is the God Who answers prayer.

I do not agree.  Certainly God is all-powerful, but prayer is too.  It has been precisely the prayer of the Rosary by MANY PEOPLE TOGETHER that has wrought public miracles, such as at Lepanto, and in Brazil when the Communists walked out, and in Austria during WWII, when the communists abandoned Austria, without any explanation.  

The public unity of prayer of the Rosary is a MOST POWERFUL WEAPON against the devil.  Make NO MISTAKE ABOUT IT.  


The public prayer of the Rosary is powerful because Our Lady is powerful.  


For you to say "No. Prayer is not powerful," makes you look not only non-Catholic but non-Christian.  I know protestants with more faith than that, SeanGovan!

The God Who answers prayer is not pleased by public intentions that are publicly against Him and against the doctrine of His Church. Who cares about private intentions?

Don't say Bishop Fellay's Rosary Crusade. Do a Rosary Crusade for the intention that the Pope consecrate Russia, or for the intention that the Society come back to Catholic doctrine, but not for the intention that the Catholics who have never left the Church return to the Church. No, no, no - not a Rosary Crusade whose stated, public goal is to make Catholics believe that the Conciliar Church is Catholic.

While I agree that this new Crusade is controversial due to the antics and hypocrisy of the Menzingen-denizens,  I'm not so sure that's enough of a reason not to join them in this Rosary Crusade.  I believe Our Lady is capable of sorting out the problems and making the best of it all.  That's her special purpose in all this.  If anyone can make good of it, she can.  It takes a total trust in Our Lady to put aside all animosity and differences and pray the Rosary with others whom you do not agree over WHATEVER it is.  

But they should be praying the Rosary with the proper words, not changing the prayers.  They shouldn't be saying, for example, "...as we forgive those who trespass against us.  And let us not be led into temptation, but deliver us from evil.  Amen."  The words should be, "And lead us not into temptation...."

Their intentions don't have to be your intentions.  You can have your own intentions.  Just because you are praying with the Crusade doesn't mean you agree with the 'official' intentions.  

I believe we should pray the Rosary for the Collegial Consecration of Russia to the IHM, by the pope and all the bishops of the world.  

I think it's edifying that sedevacantists in the main do not pray for this.  And I expect that when the Consecration happens, a lot of those sedes will make their schism official, unfortunately.  The conversion of Russia should be a thing that unifies the faith of Catholics the world over, but it might also be the thing that pushes sedes out of the Church most prominently.   I don't want to do anything that would put me and mine in that same category.  Therefore, I will join with the XSPX in this crusade, including the intention that the XSPX also returns to tradition.  After all, they are a LOT CLOSER to Tradition than Rome is!!!!  

If Rome can do it, certainly the XSPX can do it!!!!


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Everyone is going to do what they are going to do.  But in my experience, whenever a group gets together to pray the Rosary, so long as they are using the proper words, Our Lady can deal with it.  

Whether you pray your Rosary alone or with others, still, you are praying your Rosary.  No matter with whom you pray it, you are in union with the Church by praying your Rosary, and the only thing wrong you can do is to not pray your Rosary.  Even if they're praying the "Luminous" mysteries, you don't have to pray them, you can choose to think about the Sorrowful with your Rosary while praying with them, for example.  Just imagine:  you get indulgences for the Sorrowful Mysteries, but they get no indulgence for the 'luminous mysteries' (there were never any indulgences assigned to them).  Maybe they get some indulgences BECAUSE of your prayer that they would NOT get without your Sorrowful mysteries.

For some, joining a crusade like this keeps them regular and they do pray their Rosary, but if they do not join a crusade, maybe they will miss days, perhaps many days, by NOT praying their Rosary.  So it's not right for us to discourage their participation.  In fact, discouraging the prayer of the Rosary borders on being sinful.

Our Lady said, the day will come when all you have left is your Rosary and your scapular.  Are you ready for those days?  

Our Lord said, wherever two or more are gathered in my name, there I am in the midst of them.  Why didn't he say, Wherever two or more are gathered with the same intentions and in opposition to the intentions of others with whom they all disagree together, in my name?  Why didn't He say that?  

When we pray the Our Father CORRECTLY, we ask God not to lead us into temptation.  Maybe that means, when someone tells you not to join a Rosary crusade, it might seem like God is leading you into temptation.  Maybe that means that the one telling you not to join is not giving you God's message.




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    To all those who shall pray my Rosary devoutly, I promise my special protection and great graces.  ~  Is praying the Rosary with +F's crusade not praying it devoutly?


    Those who shall persevere in the recitation of my Rosary will receive some special grace.  ~  Is praying with +F's crusade not persevering?


    The Rosary will be a very powerful armor against hell; it will destroy vice, deliver from sin and dispel heresy.  ~  But not if it's +Fellay who organizes it?  What if a REAL heretic organized it, like Pope Francis -- would you dare pray the Rosary when Pope Francis asks you to?


    The rosary will make virtue and good works flourish, and will obtain for souls the most abundant divine mercies. It will draw the hearts of men from the love of the world and its vanities, and will lift them to the desire of eternal things. Oh, that souls would sanctify themselves by this means.  ~  But these things don't apply to the XSPX and those infected with Menzinenitis, correct?


    Those who trust themselves to me through the Rosary will not perish.  ~  Unless, that is, you trust in Our Lady through +F's crusade, then you're really in for it.  Whooa, boy, are you in for it, buddy!


    Whoever recites my Rosary devoutly reflecting on the mysteries, shall never be overwhelmed by misfortune. He will not experience the anger of God nor will he perish by an unprovided death. The sinner will be converted; the just will persevere in grace and merit eternal life.  ~  Oh, but not if it's a Rosary being recommended by someone who's really mucking things up with his agenda -- Oh, no -- If that's it, then STAY AWAY LIKE THE PLAGUE!!


    Those truly devoted to my Rosary shall not die without the sacraments of the Church.  ~  But if your devotion spills over to prayer of My Rosary with kreeps, rascals, ne'er-do-wells and miscreants, then FUGGEDABOUDIT!


    Those who are faithful to recite my Rosary shall have during their life and at their death the light of God and the plenitude of His graces and will share in the merits of the blessed.  ~  Obviously this EXCLUDES prayer with the XSPX!


    I will deliver promptly from purgatory souls devoted to my Rosary.  ~  But if you  *DARE*  to pray with someone who tries to use my Rosary for their political agenda in opposition to what you think is God's will, then I'll se to it that you COOK for the LONG TERM in Purgatory.


    True children of my Rosary will enjoy great glory in heaven.  ~  But the true children of someone ELSE'S Rosary are in for a pretty unwelcome surprise, you can be sure of that!


    What you shall ask through my Rosary you shall obtain.  ~  UNLESS, that is, you're asking for the conversion of +Fellay, then forget it.


    To those who propagate my Rosary I promise aid in all their necessities.  ~  Make that ALL THEIR NECESSITIES EXCEPT FOR ONE.  If you so much as DARE to join up with criminals who subvert the Faith and pray My Rosary with them, thou shalt be SORRY.


    I have obtained from my Son that all the members of the Rosary Confraternity shall have as their intercessors, in life and in death, the entire celestial court.  ~  Furthermore, be it henceforth and forever known to you that any one of you who joins with others praying the Rosary with tless than the purest of intentions is going to be in serious trouble -- big time.


    Those who recite my Rosary faithfully are my beloved children, the brothers and sisters of Jesus Christ.  ~  However, anyone who recites my Rosary with bad company the ilk of rotten Fellayites, are relegated immediately to the BACK OF THE BUS.  You know, like Rosa Parks.


    Devotion to my Rosary is a special sign of predestination.  ~  And devotion to any of the STUPID IDEAS of the Menzingen-denizens destroys any such predestination stuff.  

It may not have started out that way but these "Crusades" appears to have become a gimmick and something entirely unbecoming to Our Lady.

It is the purity and humility of prayer that honors God and His Mother.

The Society is at present an unreliable source for the reclaiming of Tradition and one cannot know their true intentions just as one cannot know the true intentions of the Conciliarists.

Pray for the Society and pray for the Conciliarists, not with them.

If there is going to be ANY HOPE of healing the Society, we would have to be capable of praying the Rosary together.  

Anyone who says I SHALL NOT PRAY THE ROSARY WITH YOU, because I don't agree with YOU, or I don't like YOU, has not the least idea what the Rosary is all about.  

Either such a one has NO FAITH in Our Lady, or else, perhaps such a one has no real faith at all, even in God.  

Did God ever say that we should not pray with other Christians?  

Under what conditions are we told not to pray with someone in all of Tradition, including Scripture or the great works of moral theology or the Fathers and Doctors of the Church?  Where is it?  

Did St. Thomas ever say we should not pray with other Catholics if we don't agree with their intentions?  Which part of which part, which question and which objection?  Or was it in another work somewhere?  Where?  Which work?

Or, are you guys who think we should boycott this crusade saying that the XSPX are now HERETICS?  


Is that what you're thinking but you're afraid to admit it?  


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I'm going to stick my neck out here.


Everyone please ask every Resistance priest you know, if we should be praying the Rosary with the XSPX, with or without agreeing with their intentions, but with the intention of turning in our tallies to the collection center to be part of the total.   Ask them if we should have the intention of the pope and bishops consecrating Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary, as our #1 priority.  


Ask Fr. Pfeiffer, Fr. Hewko, Fr. Chazal, Fr. Ringrose, Fr. Voigt, Fr. Cardozo, Fr. Girouard -- whoever you can find and at the first opportunity.  


Ask Bishop Williamson.  He recommends 15 mysteries every day.  

Is he going to say that none of these should be in cooperation with +Fellay's crusade?  If my hunch is right, H.E. is already counting his for submission when the time comes.  Maybe he'd be willing to collect all of ours too?  It could be via the Internet, on a special web page, with a username and password registration.  

How many of you would reconsider, if +W were to ask you to join him in this?  

If he can overlook his differences with Menzingenitis, can't you?  

I think HE CAN, but whether you can is your decision.


.

Neil Obstat

If there is going to be ANY HOPE of healing the Society, we would have to be capable of praying the Rosary together.  

 Anyone who says I SHALL NOT PRAY THE ROSARY WITH YOU, because I don't agree with YOU, or I don't like YOU, has not the least idea what the Rosary is all about.  

 Either such a one has NO FAITH in Our Lady, or else, perhaps such a one has no real faith at all, even in God.  

 Did God ever say that we should not pray with other Christians?  

 Under what conditions are we told not to pray with someone in all of Tradition, including Scripture or the great works of moral theology or the Fathers and Doctors of the Church?  Where is it?  

 Did St. Thomas ever say we should not pray with other Catholics if we don't agree with their intentions?  Which part of which part, which question and which objection?  Or was it in another work somewhere?  Where?  Which work?

 Or, are you guys who think we should boycott this crusade saying that the XSPX are now HERETICS?  


 Is that what you're thinking but you're afraid to admit it?  

Firstly, healing the Society is neither my goal nor is it possible. The Society has been changed and it will not be returned to its former integrity without a wholesale bloodletting and removal of all of the newer priests who have been formed into the mode of modern thinking. The Father Themanns will never become the Father Girouards. That will never happen, and it is the Father Themanns who are the future of the SSPX.

 Your objections that I advocate not praying with other Christians are an incorrect reading of my intent.  

Second, we have seen in the past the manipulation of the intentions and the selective interpretation which presumed that Our Lady was responsible for the devious Summorum Pontificuм and the half baked "lifting" which followed.
Again presuming that Our Lady would facilitate such political maneuvering and manipulation.  How insulting to Her.

Did you see the word heretics in my short post? If it were to be a reason not to align with this group, it would have been there!
It does not matter anyway, they are no longer a reliable source in the defense of Tradition. That is enough if and when one is ready to become firm and brook no compromise or compromisers in the efforts to preserve and restore Truth and Religion to the Church.

And finally, I do not believe that realizing one's petitions to God through a cult like exercise can be any more effective than properly prayed and intended Rosaries which are by the very nature of Christian communion in Christ are indeed joined with all of the Brethren and Saints who pray for the true intentions of the Church and God's honor.

Why involve that which is above the earth with the demonstrated worldliness of Menzingen?
Our Father knows the groanings of our hearts and hears the cries of His faithful children.

If folk are no longer associating with the SSPX, why should they respond to its antics? The continuing liberal drift of the Society makes a nonsense of genuine rosary and Fatima initiatives and I suspect Menzingen uses them to distract the laity and to support any outcome in its questionable deliberations. Fuzzy intentions are an insult and a confusion of the mind and belong to the new church the Society is bent on joining. With news of its support for indult and EC bodies, its squeeze on the French district and use of external agencies and funding to project a different image, one wonders what Menzingen's real intentions are. I criticised the first crusade all those years ago; this one I know to be a fraud.