Let us refrain from praying separate Rosary Crusades, but let us participate in the new SSPX Rosary Crusade. The reasons for this reside in the fruits of the previous Rosary Crusades:
1. Keep in mind this principle: The Lord is far from the wicked: and He will hear the prayers of the just (Proverbs 15:29); He hath not forgotten the cry of the poor (Psalm 9:13).
2. The prayers offered to God by the little people praying the Rosary Crusades with all their hearts and minds were heard by God and He gave the increase:
a. The covert modernism of the SSPX leadership was publicly unmasked, as was its real agenda.
b. Whatever deal was in the works was trounced.
c. Abdication of BXVI and ascendency of Bergoglio - which ascendance unmasked rome so radically that even the novus ordos are having a hard time denying.
d. Consequences of c) vis a vis the SSPX - it is now out in the open what Menzingen was actually planning to go to bed with, and also how corrupt an idea making a deal with the head of the beast really is.
It is impossible to deny that the protection and righting of the fallen traditional movement - the stated intention of the Crusade - is the absolutely crucial need of the Church right now.
Don't allow yourself to be tricked by the devil into abstaining from this call to public prayer. It is the public nature of the prayer - the public call; the publicly stated intentions; and the public participation - that makes it so powerful. If you focus on who called for the public prayer - and on his private motives, which are impossible for you to know - you will perhaps miss the time of your visitation.
Realize that God gave us many, many graces in response to our generosity over the past decade, REGARDLESS OF THE COVERT DESIGNS OF MENZINGEN, WHICH WERE ROUTED BY GOD HIMSELF! He is ready to give many more - even more powerful and radical - if we do not turn tail and run from this call to prayer.
God is not asking you to boycott this Rosary Crusade. The devil is asking you to. The last thing he wants is for the folk that have been divided from one another and set to war against each other to unite once more under the Banner of the Immaculate to pray for his extirpation.
Do you think yourself too holy to pray a Rosary Crusade called for by Bishop Bernard Fellay? Do you think that your perfect and most pure prayers will be sullied by acquiescing to this man's request for your help? Are you afraid of soiling yourself by praying with him?
I'm not. I'm going to pray with him and for him. If he has secret intentions that are against the Lord and against the Holy Faith, God will not hear him. But God will hear the prayers of the just who pray for the publicly stated - and very necessary - petitions:
1. May God protect, defend, and right the traditionalist counter-revolution.
2. May God convert modernists and make them Catholics.
3. May God finally grant us the Consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary.
Wow, are you serious? You know what Bishop Fellay considered to be the answered prayers from the past rosary crusades. Obviously these have mislead the faithful... Pray the rosary, of course, but not in union with this crusade!
I wouldn't participate because of what Bishop Fellay has considered to be the answered prayers from the past crusades. Pray the rosary, of course, but not in union with this crusade.
There were a few here and there, who opposed Bishop Fellay transferring priests
Let us refrain from praying separate Rosary Crusades, but let us participate in the new SSPX Rosary Crusade. The reasons for this reside in the fruits of the previous Rosary Crusades:
1. Keep in mind this principle: The Lord is far from the wicked: and He will hear the prayers of the just (Proverbs 15:29); He hath not forgotten the cry of the poor (Psalm 9:13).
2. The prayers offered to God by the little people praying the Rosary Crusades with all their hearts and minds were heard by God and He gave the increase:
a. The covert modernism of the SSPX leadership was publicly unmasked, as was its real agenda.
b. Whatever deal was in the works was trounced.
c. Abdication of BXVI and ascendency of Bergoglio - which ascendance unmasked rome so radically that even the novus ordos are having a hard time denying.
d. Consequences of c) vis a vis the SSPX - it is now out in the open what Menzingen was actually planning to go to bed with, and also how corrupt an idea making a deal with the head of the beast really is.
It is impossible to deny that the protection and righting of the fallen traditional movement - the stated intention of the Crusade - is the absolutely crucial need of the Church right now.
Don't allow yourself to be tricked by the devil into abstaining from this call to public prayer. It is the public nature of the prayer - the public call; the publicly stated intentions; and the public participation - that makes it so powerful. If you focus on who called for the public prayer - and on his private motives, which are impossible for you to know - you will perhaps miss the time of your visitation.
Realize that God gave us many, many graces in response to our generosity over the past decade, REGARDLESS OF THE COVERT DESIGNS OF MENZINGEN, WHICH WERE ROUTED BY GOD HIMSELF! He is ready to give many more - even more powerful and radical - if we do not turn tail and run from this call to prayer.
God is not asking you to boycott this Rosary Crusade. The devil is asking you to. The last thing he wants is for the folk that have been divided from one another and set to war against each other to unite once more under the Banner of the Immaculate to pray for his extirpation.
Do you think yourself too holy to pray a Rosary Crusade called for by Bishop Bernard Fellay? Do you think that your perfect and most pure prayers will be sullied by acquiescing to this man's request for your help? Are you afraid of soiling yourself by praying with him?
I'm not. I'm going to pray with him and for him. If he has secret intentions that are against the Lord and against the Holy Faith, God will not hear him. But God will hear the prayers of the just who pray for the publicly stated - and very necessary - petitions:
1. May God protect, defend, and right the traditionalist counter-revolution.
2. May God convert modernists and make them Catholics.
3. May God finally grant us the Consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary.
Quote from: cantatedominoLet us refrain from praying separate Rosary Crusades, but let us participate in the new SSPX Rosary Crusade. The reasons for this reside in the fruits of the previous Rosary Crusades:
1. Keep in mind this principle: The Lord is far from the wicked: and He will hear the prayers of the just (Proverbs 15:29); He hath not forgotten the cry of the poor (Psalm 9:13).
2. The prayers offered to God by the little people praying the Rosary Crusades with all their hearts and minds were heard by God and He gave the increase:
a. The covert modernism of the SSPX leadership was publicly unmasked, as was its real agenda.
b. Whatever deal was in the works was trounced.
c. Abdication of BXVI and ascendency of Bergoglio - which ascendance unmasked rome so radically that even the novus ordos are having a hard time denying.
d. Consequences of c) vis a vis the SSPX - it is now out in the open what Menzingen was actually planning to go to bed with, and also how corrupt an idea making a deal with the head of the beast really is.
It is impossible to deny that the protection and righting of the fallen traditional movement - the stated intention of the Crusade - is the absolutely crucial need of the Church right now.
Don't allow yourself to be tricked by the devil into abstaining from this call to public prayer. It is the public nature of the prayer - the public call; the publicly stated intentions; and the public participation - that makes it so powerful. If you focus on who called for the public prayer - and on his private motives, which are impossible for you to know - you will perhaps miss the time of your visitation.
Realize that God gave us many, many graces in response to our generosity over the past decade, REGARDLESS OF THE COVERT DESIGNS OF MENZINGEN, WHICH WERE ROUTED BY GOD HIMSELF! He is ready to give many more - even more powerful and radical - if we do not turn tail and run from this call to prayer.
God is not asking you to boycott this Rosary Crusade. The devil is asking you to. The last thing he wants is for the folk that have been divided from one another and set to war against each other to unite once more under the Banner of the Immaculate to pray for his extirpation.
Do you think yourself too holy to pray a Rosary Crusade called for by Bishop Bernard Fellay? Do you think that your perfect and most pure prayers will be sullied by acquiescing to this man's request for your help? Are you afraid of soiling yourself by praying with him?
I'm not. I'm going to pray with him and for him. If he has secret intentions that are against the Lord and against the Holy Faith, God will not hear him. But God will hear the prayers of the just who pray for the publicly stated - and very necessary - petitions:
1. May God protect, defend, and right the traditionalist counter-revolution.
2. May God convert modernists and make them Catholics.
3. May God finally grant us the Consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary.
No. Prayer is not powerful--what's powerful is the God Who answers prayer. The God Who answers prayer is not pleased by public intentions that are publicly against Him and against the doctrine of His Church. Who cares about private intentions?
Don't say Bishop Fellay's Rosary Crusade. Do a Rosary Crusade for the intention that the Pope consecrate Russia, or for the intention that the Society come back to Catholic doctrine, but not for the intention that the Catholics who have never left the Church return to the Church. No, no, no - not a Rosary Crusade whose stated, public goal is to make Catholics believe that the Conciliar Church is Catholic.
...the alleged fact of Fr Angles having a car belonging to Hitler.
Quote from: John Grace...the alleged fact of Fr Angles having a car belonging to Hitler.
:dancing-banana:
Huh? What has this to do with a Rosary Crusade? BTW, what kind of car did Hitler drive?
Quote from: John Grace...the alleged fact of Fr Angles having a car belonging to Hitler.
:dancing-banana:
Huh? What has this to do with a Rosary Crusade? BTW, what kind of car did Hitler drive?
Quote from: cantatedominoLet us refrain from praying separate Rosary Crusades, but let us participate in the new SSPX Rosary Crusade. The reasons for this reside in the fruits of the previous Rosary Crusades:
a. The covert modernism of the SSPX leadership was publicly unmasked, as was its real agenda.
b. Whatever deal was in the works was trounced.
c. Abdication of BXVI and ascendency of Bergoglio - which ascendance unmasked rome so radically that even the novus ordos are having a hard time denying.
d. Consequences of c) vis a vis the SSPX - it is now out in the open what Menzingen was actually planning to go to bed with, and also how corrupt an idea making a deal with the head of the beast really is.
God is not asking you to boycott this Rosary Crusade. The devil is asking you to. The last thing he wants is for the folk that have been divided from one another and set to war against each other to unite once more under the Banner of the Immaculate to pray for his extirpation.
Do you think yourself too holy to pray a Rosary Crusade called for by Bishop Bernard Fellay? Do you think that your perfect and most pure prayers will be sullied by acquiescing to this man's request for your help? Are you afraid of soiling yourself by praying with him?
I'm not. I'm going to pray with him and for him. If he has secret intentions that are against the Lord and against the Holy Faith, God will not hear him. But God will hear the prayers of the just who pray for the publicly stated - and very necessary - petitions:
1. May God protect, defend, and right the traditionalist counter-revolution.
2. May God convert modernists and make them Catholics.
3. May God finally grant us the Consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary.
No. Prayer is not powerful--what's powerful is the God Who answers prayer.
The God Who answers prayer is not pleased by public intentions that are publicly against Him and against the doctrine of His Church. Who cares about private intentions?
Don't say Bishop Fellay's Rosary Crusade. Do a Rosary Crusade for the intention that the Pope consecrate Russia, or for the intention that the Society come back to Catholic doctrine, but not for the intention that the Catholics who have never left the Church return to the Church. No, no, no - not a Rosary Crusade whose stated, public goal is to make Catholics believe that the Conciliar Church is Catholic.
It may not have started out that way but these "Crusades" appears to have become a gimmick and something entirely unbecoming to Our Lady.
It is the purity and humility of prayer that honors God and His Mother.
The Society is at present an unreliable source for the reclaiming of Tradition and one cannot know their true intentions just as one cannot know the true intentions of the Conciliarists.
Pray for the Society and pray for the Conciliarists, not with them.
This will be my first time NOT participating in the Rosary Crusade.
Oh, I'll be saying my daily Rosary, and I have no problem with the intentions. They are some of the things we pray for anyhow.
If my intention is to honor Our Lady, get the graces and merits of the Rosary, and for my intentions to be granted, then there's no reason to gather them up in a pile in front of Bishop Fellay.
That part is only for SSPX negotiating power, prestige, politics, bragging rights, etc.
But now that I see the pattern -- how the Rosary Crusades are used as a distraction, a publicity tool, a form of "Bread and Circuses" for pious Trads, etc. I don't think I can contribute.
Attending an SSPX chapel for the Mass is one thing. Signing up for Bishop Fellay's Rosary Crusade is almost like an endorsement of him, or a "confidence" vote. At least that's how many are going to see it.
In good conscience, I can't do that.
Now if the POPE were heading up something like this, I would contribute because he's the Pope, and I should follow the pope when he commands something good. But Bishop Fellay isn't the pope :)
He's just the Superior General of a pious union of priests that used to be very solid and uncompromising in its defense of Catholic Tradition (a.k.a. "the Faith") but now is inconsistent and wavering quite a bit. It has cast out some of its best priests (and one bishop), and forces the rest (of the good ones) to remain silent.
As such, +Fellay and his organization no longer have my confidence. I will make use of their sacraments, but I no longer have in them a "rah rah" cause to unequivocally support, as I did in the past. Now I can only support the Resistance that way.
If there is going to be ANY HOPE of healing the Society, we would have to be capable of praying the Rosary together.
Anyone who says I SHALL NOT PRAY THE ROSARY WITH YOU, because I don't agree with YOU, or I don't like YOU, has not the least idea what the Rosary is all about.
Either such a one has NO FAITH in Our Lady, or else, perhaps such a one has no real faith at all, even in God.
Did God ever say that we should not pray with other Christians?
Under what conditions are we told not to pray with someone in all of Tradition, including Scripture or the great works of moral theology or the Fathers and Doctors of the Church? Where is it?
Did St. Thomas ever say we should not pray with other Catholics if we don't agree with their intentions? Which part of which part, which question and which objection? Or was it in another work somewhere? Where? Which work?
Or, are you guys who think we should boycott this crusade saying that the XSPX are now HERETICS?
Is that what you're thinking but you're afraid to admit it?
By his own admission, Fr Loschi was kept in the dark by Bishop Fellay. He hadn't a clue. He has wised up and I do commend him for having the courage to challenge "himself" in Dublin. Fr Loschi was very brave to go to Bishop Fellay and resign.
Firstly, healing the Society is neither my goal nor is it possible. The Society has been changed and it will not be returned to its former integrity without a wholesale bloodletting and removal of all of the newer priests who have been formed into the mode of modern thinking. The Father Themanns will never become the Father Girouards. That will never happen, and it is the Father Themanns who are the future of the SSPX.
Quote from: John GraceBy his own admission, Fr Loschi was kept in the dark by Bishop Fellay. He hadn't a clue. He has wised up and I do commend him for having the courage to challenge "himself" in Dublin. Fr Loschi was very brave to go to Bishop Fellay and resign.
What on earth are you talking about? Fr. Loschi is still with the SSPX and is now the Prior of the of Singapore Priory, headquarters of the District of Asia.
If folk are no longer associating with the SSPX, why should they respond to its antics? The continuing liberal drift of the Society makes a nonsense of genuine rosary and Fatima initiatives and I suspect Menzingen uses them to distract the laity and to support any outcome in its questionable deliberations. Fuzzy intentions are an insult and a confusion of the mind and belong to the new church the Society is bent on joining. With news of its support for indult and EC bodies, its squeeze on the French district and use of external agencies and funding to project a different image, one wonders what Menzingen's real intentions are. I criticised the first crusade all those years ago; this one I know to be a fraud.
For all the above reasons it is clear that any Catholic who wishes to do the Will of God, to please Heaven or to Honour the Blessed Virgin Mary can have no part in this initiative whatsoever. The SSPX has been cursed with disunity and blindness. Its priests do not agree with one another and find themselves having to be careful about what they say to whom, a thing unthinkable until fairly recently. This latest Rosary Crusade is a grave insult to Almighty God and to His Blessed Mother. It will call down from Heaven not a blessing but a curse, it will not delay or soften the chastisement but will hasten it, and although Bishop Fellay as the originator bears the most responsibility, it is incuмbent upon each of us not to participate in such a serious insult to God. Furthermore, it is the clear Catholic duty of each of us to warn as many others a possible. In the meantime, pray for the survival of Tradition through the work of the Resistance and for the frustration of Bishop Fellay's plans and those of his confederates.
Queen of the Most Holy Rosary, pray for us!
For the people participating in this crusade but changing the intentions:
Are you still filling out the sheets to hand in at the end? Are you going to write on them that you changed the intentions?
.
TheRecusant has a page all about this in Latest News, and it ends like this:
http://www.therecusant.com/apps/blog/show/40394286-boycott-the-rosary-crusade-Quote
For all the above reasons it is clear that any Catholic who wishes to do the Will of God, to please Heaven or to Honour the Blessed Virgin Mary can have no part in this initiative whatsoever. The SSPX has been cursed with disunity and blindness. Its priests do not agree with one another and find themselves having to be careful about what they say to whom, a thing unthinkable until fairly recently. This latest Rosary Crusade is a grave insult to Almighty God and to His Blessed Mother. It will call down from Heaven not a blessing but a curse, it will not delay or soften the chastisement but will hasten it, and although Bishop Fellay as the originator bears the most responsibility, it is incuмbent upon each of us not to participate in such a serious insult to God. Furthermore, it is the clear Catholic duty of each of us to warn as many others a possible. In the meantime, pray for the survival of Tradition through the work of the Resistance and for the frustration of Bishop Fellay's plans and those of his confederates.
Queen of the Most Holy Rosary, pray for us!
Can anyone say for sure if this is what +W is recommending?
Is this what the various Resistance priests are recommending?
When Our Lady came at La Salette and said that bishops will oppose bishops, etc., did she EVER say that therefore we should not join with certain others in their Rosary prayers, because we don't like their intentions?
Has there ever been any Church teaching that says you commit some kind of sin by having your OWN intentions different from those of others with whom you pray?
Let me ask a frank question:
When St. Louis Marie Grignion de Montfort spoke of those who DISCORAGE others from the prayer of the Rosary, what did he have to say?
Did he EVER say that discouraging others from praying the Rosary can be a holy work?
Did he EVER say that there are certain times when telling others not to pray the Rosary is a good idea or something that could be pleasing to God?
Did St. Louis EVER say that when a group of people are getting together to pray the Rosary that it's possible, due to their intentions alone, that those who 'know better' are ill-advised to participate?Quote from: True FaithFor the people participating in this crusade but changing the intentions:
Are you still filling out the sheets to hand in at the end? Are you going to write on them that you changed the intentions?
I don't see any problem with putting a note on the sheet that you are, for example, using the intention of the South America district, which is, #2. For the return of (modernist) Rome to the Tradition of the Church.
You can even include a personal intention for the conversion of +Fellay from Modernist to the Tradition of the Church.
In fact, you could send your sheets to the South America District for them to include in their tallies, if you like. Send a scan by e-mail, for free.
.
In the same breath I discourage participation in Bp. Fellay's Rosary Crusade, I strongly encourage traditional Catholics to pray the daily Rosary, for the same or similar intentions. ---[Good!]
Re-read the thread -- in one of my early posts I suggested praying for the same intentions, plus a couple other intentions, including "for the faithful priests and bishop who are being persecuted" or something to that effect. ---[I wish it could be in one post instead of spread over the whole 40 posts previous.]
I just don't think we should appear to "fall for" Bishop Fellay's latest distraction. It's bread & circuses for pious trads. It's a political maneuver calculated to make the SSPX look like it's still fighting for Tradition. ---[Agreed.]
Most on here agree we shouldn't throw money in the collection plate for Menzingen. But we should throw Rosaries in? What, do we value our money more than our Rosaries? Are we just withholding financial support because deep down we're stingy?
I'm not saying we shouldn't say those Rosaries, or that we shouldn't pray for Bishop Fellay and the SSPX. What I'm saying is that we shouldn't give them *rosaries to count* as feathers for their cap, that's all.
I'm advocating that we not turn in any Rosaries for their count. Say just as many as you normally would during such a crusade. Send them to Bishop Williamson instead, or Fr. Pfeiffer. Then he can submit them to Bishop Fellay. How's that for a good statement of principle?
"And when ye pray, you shall not be as the hypocrites, that love to stand and pray in the ѕуηαgσgυєs and corners of the streets, that they may be seen by men: Amen I say to you, they have received their reward.
But thou when thou shalt pray, enter into thy chamber, and having shut the door, pray to thy Father in secret: and thy Father who seeth in secret will repay thee."
IMHO,
I don't think that engaging in herd activities in this partisan atmosphere is really worthwhile and it ends up being a symbolic public display with sheets, and tallies, and announcements.
And if you do it with altered intentions and send them to different priests, then you are basically intending to disrupt the SSPX "crusade", so why join it in the first place?
I would suggest saying your Rosaries more devoutly and submitting them to Our Lady and stop entertaining the idea of using what should be a solemn and pious action to make political statements to worldly unworthies.
There is only one tally which matters, and it is not found in Menzingen.
The Lord knows exactly who and how many are joined in prayer with the same intentions and dispenses grace accordingly.
He needs no sign-up sheets and judges prayers according to sincerity not numbers.Quote"And when ye pray, you shall not be as the hypocrites, that love to stand and pray in the ѕуηαgσgυєs and corners of the streets, that they may be seen by men: Amen I say to you, they have received their reward.
"But thou when thou shalt pray, enter into thy chamber, and having shut the door, pray to thy Father in secret: and thy Father who seeth in secret will repay thee."
This thread clearly demonstrates the cultish thinking which has been internalized by patrons of the SSPX proper and its resistance spinoff.
On the one hand if we don't want to pray the Rosary with the SSPX then we are discouraging other Catholics from praying and on the other hand we have the resistance telling us what Heaven is going to be up to if folks do pray with the Society. And each side enlisting the Saints and the prophets to their cause.
It is silliness, this whole business.
The best advice is to pray the 15 mysteries.
The most comical observance of this new Rosary crusade, apart from the clear error of intention # 2, is that didn't Bergoglio say something about people counting Rosaries and offering them to him. He made a mockery of them and them called them Pelagians. Let's see how this one sits with him. Is it Bishop Fellay's way of getting even? By calling another one.
Quote from: John GraceThe best advice is to pray the 15 mysteries.
Indeed, pray the rosary to Our Lady whose intentions are always pure and true.
On deeper consideration, I think what I might do is withhold turning the tallies in because under no circuмstances would I entrust my prayers to the crypto-Jew currently defiling the Holy Chair of St. Peter; and I absolutely expect that SSPXBrand will employ them ill-wise by laying them at his doorstep.
I’ll give them directly to the Blessed Mother, my Captain and Chief.
I do very much want to simply and publicly unite myself with all the sincere people praying the SSPX Rosary Crusade to God to protect – and hopefully unify - Tradition.
I believe that is a very good work.
This will be my first time NOT participating in the Rosary Crusade.
Oh, I'll be saying my daily Rosary, and I have no problem with the intentions. They are some of the things we pray for anyhow.
If my intention is to honor Our Lady, get the graces and merits of the Rosary, and for my intentions to be granted, then there's no reason to gather them up in a pile in front of Bishop Fellay.
That part is only for SSPX negotiating power, prestige, politics, bragging rights, etc.
But now that I see the pattern -- how the Rosary Crusades are used as a distraction, a publicity tool, a form of "Bread and Circuses" for pious Trads, etc. I don't think I can contribute.
Attending an SSPX chapel for the Mass is one thing. Signing up for Bishop Fellay's Rosary Crusade is almost like an endorsement of him, or a "confidence" vote. At least that's how many are going to see it.
In good conscience, I can't do that.
Now if the POPE were heading up something like this, I would contribute because he's the Pope, and I should follow the pope when he commands something good. But Bishop Fellay isn't the pope :)
He's just the Superior General of a pious union of priests that used to be very solid and uncompromising in its defense of Catholic Tradition (a.k.a. "the Faith") but now is inconsistent and wavering quite a bit. It has cast out some of its best priests (and one bishop), and forces the rest (of the good ones) to remain silent.
As such, +Fellay and his organization no longer have my confidence. I will make use of their sacraments, but I no longer have in them a "rah rah" cause to unequivocally support, as I did in the past. Now I can only support the Resistance that way.