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Author Topic: Pope to end Latin Mass???  (Read 4106 times)

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Offline Maria Auxiliadora

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Re: Pope to end Latin Mass???
« Reply #15 on: July 27, 2017, 09:28:21 AM »
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    • Quote from: Pax Vobis on July 27, 2017, 09:04:55 AM
    Paul VI's constitution created a new missal but it did NOT authorize, permit or command any priest to use it, and by extension, for anyone to attend it.  This is because to use this new missal is a violation of Quo Primum, which is still a valid law and which supersedes Paul VI's law.  Paul VI could have, in theory, changed or revoked Quo Primum but he did not.  So Quo Primum is still in effect and it allows any priest to say the tridentine rite, forever.  More importantly, it COMMANDS, under pain of sin, ALL priests and faithful to ONLY use the tridentine missal.  Many people forget that this law is both a permission and a COMMAND.

    The point is, many people say that Quo Primum is infallible.  I'm not sure that is accurate, since it is a law and legal matters aren't usually infallible, because that has to do with doctrine.  But either way, Quo Primum is still a valid law and since it's permissions and penalties are still in force, then anyone who says or attends the novus ordo is commiting a grave sin of disobedience against the law of the Church.

    John Paul II's commission of 8 Cardinals concluded in 1988 (?) that Quo Primum has never been abrogated and I don't believe they would do it ever but our real claim as baptized Catholics is to Immemorial Tradition. Quo Primum is only an affirmation of that right.
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    Offline josefamenendez

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    Re: Pope to end Latin Mass???
    « Reply #16 on: July 27, 2017, 09:40:17 AM »
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    • "Based on everything I've heard or read Bishop Fellay say, I'm not so sure he would care if it were a "trap".  This could potentially lead to an even greater expansion of the SSPX. [The mystery of the super-sized new seminary is solved] I think he would be quite happy to have the FSSP and other "traditional" Conciliar groups rolled up under his authority"

    Personally, I don't think most FSSP will leave Modern Rome ( Especially the consiliar-trained priests)
    Maybe a few congregants, but not most. They will "lay-down" for the hybrid "mass" and like it. They are way to conditioned to the ambiguity of the Vll church and will still be holding onto modern Rome as a "lifeline", but they don't realize their church has been hijacked, or even if they do, they think it's all they have. They haven't figured out or won't even consider getting off the hijacked plane until the criminals are removed. They are like Pavlov's dogs under under Pope Francis.
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    Offline Incredulous

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    Re: Pope to end Latin Mass???
    « Reply #17 on: July 27, 2017, 01:51:01 PM »
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    • Listen to Bergy the Destroyer, and you'll lose your Faith and go insane.



    Listen to St, Pope Pius V, a true Father of the Church who protected the Holy Tridentine Mass to perpetuity.
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    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi

    Offline Wessex

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    Re: Pope to end Latin Mass???
    « Reply #18 on: July 27, 2017, 04:17:01 PM »
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    • The revolution has to continue, otherwise it stagnates and folk may be in danger of looking backwards, perish the thought! There has to be some push-back against emerging regressive ideas and a solution would be to reactivate the excitable conciliar crowd into providing more support for those progressive changes yet to be given the seal of Roman approval. Trouble is they are a bit long in the tooth and their children have been living without religion for most of their lives. I dare say hanging on to things of the past as reminders of the universal church that was gets in the way of more dismantling ecuмenical initiates  and it is clear that Bergoglio's ultimate goal is a pantheon that is not Catholic or Christian. We would wonder why these modern men do all this surrounded by contaminating antiquity when they could build new temples to their new gods! Bereft of any symbols, they would reflect mankind's primitive religious spirit but in a pure form expressed in terms of light and space, the common parlance of today's elite architects.

    I can see Bp. Fellay at the end of his term taking on the role of museum curator inside the Vatican where he can relieve tourists of their euros on the back of that occasional longing for things old and nostalgic. I doubt Bergoglio would be a frequent visitor but he must surely know a liking for the old Mass does not mean one is necessarily a Catholic of the old stripe or indeed religious at all.    
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    Offline Maria Auxiliadora

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    Re: Pope to end Latin Mass???
    « Reply #19 on: July 28, 2017, 07:58:13 AM »
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    • And where is their evidence?


    Quote
    Fake News fever in the Catholic world: No, Pope won't abolish Summorum

    There seems to be a Fake News epidemic in traditional Catholic websites -- the latest of which are repeated reports of "rumors" (there are true and untrue rumors...) according to which Pope Francis wants to "abolish" the Motu Proprio Summorum Pontificuм.

    The rumors recur periodically, with variations. Most often, it is said that Francis will do so as soon as there is a "deal" with the Society of Saint Pius X (FSSPX / SSPX) for the establishment of a worldwide Personal Prelature.

    These rumors are not true.

    Posted by New Catholic at 7/28/2017 11:20:00 AM
    https://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2017/07/fake-news-fever-in-catholic-world-no.html

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    Offline TKGS

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    Re: Pope to end Latin Mass???
    « Reply #20 on: July 28, 2017, 08:12:49 AM »
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    • Quote from: Maria Auxiliadora on July 28, 2017, 07:58:13 AM
    Fake News fever in the Catholic world: No, Pope won't abolish Summorum 

    There seems to be a Fake News epidemic in traditional Catholic websites -- the latest of which are repeated reports of "rumors" (there are true and untrue rumors...) according to which Pope Francis wants to "abolish" the Motu Proprio Summorum Pontificuм.

    The rumors recur periodically, with variations. Most often, it is said that Francis will do so as soon as there is a "deal" with the Society of Saint Pius X (FSSPX / SSPX) for the establishment of a worldwide Personal Prelature.

    These rumors are not true.

    Posted by New Catholic at 7/28/2017 11:20:00 AM 
    https://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2017/07/fake-news-fever-in-catholic-world-no.html
    Interestingly, this is what they used to say about Bergoglio allowing adulterers to receive communion.
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    Offline Incredulous

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    Re: Pope to end Latin Mass???
    « Reply #21 on: July 28, 2017, 11:27:48 AM »
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    • Bergy's pontificate is nothing but fake news, consistently detrimental to the Holy office of the Papacy.

    But Francis does have a track record of crushing traditional Catholic Orders and Bishops.

    It makes perfect sense that Menzingen is colluding with Bergy to corral the trads in order to neutralize us.

    This is why Bp. Fellay can't convincingly explain why he continues to pursue regularization?

    Providentially, since 2009, the SSPX has lost it's allure... because it refuses to speak the truth about the "Crisis in the Church".
    (This is our consolation)
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    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi

    Offline Geremia

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    Re: Pope to end Latin Mass???
    « Reply #22 on: July 28, 2017, 01:38:58 PM »
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    • I hope he does. It might actually make the indult groups (FSSP, ICRSS, et al.) seriously consider sedevacantism or at least join the SSPX.
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    Offline TKGS

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    Re: Pope to end Latin Mass???
    « Reply #23 on: July 28, 2017, 01:50:02 PM »
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    • Quote from: Geremia on July 28, 2017, 01:38:58 PM
    I hope he does. It might actually make the indult groups (FSSP, ICRSS, et al.) seriously consider sedevacantism or at least join the SSPX.
    Wouldn't that be wonderful:  Flood the SSPX with a gaggle of invalidly ordained priests that the SSPX won't ordain.   :furtive:
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    Offline Geremia

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    Re: Pope to end Latin Mass???
    « Reply #24 on: July 28, 2017, 01:52:03 PM »
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    • Quote from: Incredulous on July 28, 2017, 11:27:48 AM
    Bergy's pontificate is nothing but fake news, consistently detrimental to the Holy office of the Papacy.
    But, as NOW has convincingly argued, there is precedent for this sort of "fake news" (rumors) being true:
    Quote
    Of course there is a fair amount of talk about “fake news” these days, and we must be on our guard not to be too quick to believe rumors. At the same time, we have to be realistic: Just as not all rumors are true, neither are they all false.

    We need but recall, for example, the ouster of “Cardinal” Raymond Burke three years ago. It had been rumored at first — and turned out to be true. Likewise, the removal of “Cardinal” Gerhard Muller: It had been rumored for months that it would happen; then there was an unconfirmed report that it had happened on June 30; and a day later, the Vatican announced it officially. Then there was the rumor that Francis had fired three of Muller’s best collaborators in the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith — something Muller himself subsequently confirmed . And who could forget the endless rumors that Francis would permit public adulterers to receive the Novus Ordo sacraments? After two dramatic synods, an ultra-long “apostolic exhortation”, and a never-ending battle over how to interpret the various “clarifications”, the ultimate answer turned out to be yes, he has permitted this.
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    Offline Maria Auxiliadora

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    Re: Pope to end Latin Mass???
    « Reply #25 on: July 29, 2017, 01:51:54 PM »
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    • Quote from: TKGS on July 28, 2017, 08:12:49 AM
    Interestingly, this is what they used to say about Bergoglio allowing adulterers to receive communion.

    Fake News they say?

    Cardinal Robert Sarah, prefect of the Vatican's Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments has offered a proposal to “unite the two camps of Catholic worshipers (N.O. and Latin Mass “traditionalists”). His proposal includes the Hybrid missal and a “new Shared (N.O.-L.M.) calendar of feasts”. So, the bottom line is that the 1962 has to go, as planned.


    Quote

    http://www.ncregister.com/blog/kschiffer/could-cardinal-sarah-bring-an-end-to-the-liturgy-wars

    Cardinal Robert Sarah, prefect of the Vatican's Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments, has offered a proposal which could unite the two camps of Catholic worshipers. According to The Tablet, Cardinal Sarah has set out steps for a “reconciliation” between the old and new forms of the Mass. Among the new ideas for achieving peace are:
    • A new, shared calendar of feasts, ensuring that the Novus Ordo and the traditional Latin Mass use the same readings each day.
    • An end to the phrase “reform of the reform.” That phrase, Cardinal Sarah points out, has become synonymous with dominance of one clan over another. “This expression may then become inappropriate,” he says, “so I prefer to speak of liturgical reconciliation. In the Church, the Christian has no opponent.” He suggests, instead, using the phrase “mutual enrichment of the rites.”
    • Reception of Communion on the tongue while kneeling.
    • The inclusion of “Prayers at the Foot of the Altar,” as was customary in the older form of liturgy.
    • The priest, as was customary in the traditional liturgy, should keep his forefingers together after consecrating the host, thus demonstrating the utmost care, reverence and importance with which the priest regards the Body of Christ.

    A new liturgy which incorporates elements of both the TLM and the Novus Ordo     would incorporate periods of silence – not so that people in the pews can idly twiddle their thumbs, but rather, to encourage adoration and reflection on the mystery.
    Pope Benedict XVI, in his Letter to the Bishops that accompanied the Moto Proprio Summorum Pontificuм, explained that he permitted the two missals to coexist not merely to satisfy the wishes of certain groups of the faithful, but also to allow for the mutual enrichment of the two forms of the Roman rite. “The two Forms of the usage of the Roman rite,” Pope Benedict wrote,
    “...can be mutually enriching: new Saints and some of the new Prefaces can and should be inserted in the old Missal.... The celebration of the Mass according to the Missal of Paul VI will be able to demonstrate, more powerfully than has been the case hitherto, the sacrality which attracts many people to the former usage.” (Emphasis mine)

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