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Author Topic: Let's move on already!  (Read 3162 times)

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Offline hollingsworth

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Let's move on already!
« on: July 25, 2017, 05:29:25 PM »
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    I’m afraid it’s game-over folks. I note with bitter amusement that a number of CI forum members seem to be dropping out of the Rome vs. SSPX discussions. Over the years, millions of words have been expended about the SSPX, and its proposed regularization with fallen Mother Church. Society clerics meet endlessly with Roman officials behind closed doors. Docuмents, letters and declarations pass back and forth between the negotiating parties. Frequent statements to the press are released, some hopeful and encouraging, followed usually by others contrarily discouraging and non-hopeful.

     
    Meanwhile, numbers of the faithful seem less and less interested. They’re tuning out. I’ve lost interest totally myself. The idea of a “personal prelature,” or chances of some other kind of “practical accord,” appear more remote than ever. A realization of the utter futility in all this negotiating frenzy may be finally dawning upon many.

     
    The good bishop implies that the apostolate, which his mentor ABL began and built, is practically DOA. But he never quite takes his finger off the checker piece. H.E. holds out hope, perhaps, that the Society can still survive and produce good fruits. But, IMO, the SSPX has all but stopped breathing.

     
    We heard recently of yet another horror story coming out of Immaculate Conception Church in Post Falls. Reportedly, a large, well respected family in that chapel just experienced a tragic break up. Add to that about five or six other such family break ups, (that we know of presonally), and other major scandals which surfaced in recent times.

     
    And Fellay & Co.? What do they do? Hardly anything to our knowledge. +Fellay seems to be too busy traveling back and forth to Rome to give these minor in-house matters much attention. Oh yeah, last year he dispatched his US District Superior to ICC. Fr. Wegner spent all of a day there talking to aggrieved parents in private sessions. Next day he flew out, feeling confident apparently, that the whole matter had been taken care of. Whatever pressing issues might have awaited him at headquarters, he did not find time to ceremoniously cleanse and reconsecrate the chapel.

     
    The Society did accept the resignation of then prior Paul Vassal in July of last year. Father acknowledged in writing that he had not handled adequately “certain grave problems regarding impurity.” So what does Bp. Fellay do with him? He sends this priest back to the new seminary in Virginia to teach, (gasp!) moral theology.

     
    But that’s not the end of the story. No. From there Fellay, apparently, decides that Fr. Vassal should become the chief priest at the Society’s largest church, St. Nicolas du Chardonnet in Paris, taking the place of a highly respected former prior whose behavior, so we’re told, deviated from company policy.

     
    The French SSPX faithful were waiting for Fr. Vassal's arrival. Father’s reputation had evidently preceded him. They protested vehemently. Vassal did not last two weeks at St. Nicolas. So back to Virginia he goes, where, according to the latest report, he has resumed his role as a teacher of (gulp!) moral theology.

     
    To illustrate how seemingly soft-headed many “trads” at ICC have become, we are told that at least half the congregation still loves Fr. Vassal, and wish that he were back with them. One female teacher at ICA, it is reported, still calls him regularly. Furthermore, though the report can be scarcely believed, this same teacher has her students pen letters of affection to the former prior.

     
    Folks, when will the SSPX finally, mercifully, be put out of its misery? When can we ever go on from it all?

     
    As for the visible, instititutional Church, it is as if Our Lord Jesus Christ had been hung from the Cross once again. He has suffered and died once again. They have laid him away in the Tomb once again. But the practically Christless New Church of Bergoglio continues to deal with the practically Christless New Society of St. Pius X. Good. They deserve one another.

     


    Offline Incredulous

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    Re: Let's move on already!
    « Reply #1 on: July 25, 2017, 10:18:44 PM »
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  • Wow, I didn't know this Holly?
    ____________________________________________________________________________________________________________
    But that’s not the end of the story. No. From there Fellay, apparently, decides that Fr. Vassal should become the chief priest at the Society’s largest church, St. Nicolas du Chardonnet in Paris, taking the place of a highly respected former prior whose behavior, so we’re told, deviated from company policy.
     
    The French SSPX faithful were waiting for Fr. Vassal's arrival. Father’s reputation had evidently preceded him. They protested vehemently. Vassal did not last two weeks at St. Nicolas. So back to Virginia he goes, where, according to the latest report, he has resumed his role as a teacher of (gulp!) moral theology.

     To illustrate how seemingly soft-headed many “trads” at ICC have become, we are told that at least half the congregation still loves Fr. Vassal, and wish that he were back with them. One female teacher at ICA, it is reported, still calls him regularly. Furthermore, though the report can be scarcely believed, this same teacher has her students pen letters of affection to the former prior.
    ____________________________________________________________________________________________________________

    How cool that the French faithful rejected him.

    Maybe, Bp. Fellay can send Fr. Vassal on... to a prestigious international MBA program, like Maxie ?



    You know, the priests have to be ready to deal with the world... don't they?


    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi


    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: Let's move on already!
    « Reply #2 on: July 25, 2017, 11:04:52 PM »
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  • For the mystery of iniquity already worketh; only that he who now holdeth, do hold, until he be taken out of the way.  And then that wicked one shall be revealed whom the Lord Jesus shall kill with the spirit of his mouth; and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming, him, Whose coming is according to the working of Satan, in all power, and signs, and lying wonders,  and in all seduction of iniquity to them that perish; because they receive not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. Therefore God shall send them the operation of error, to believe lying:
    That all may be judged who have not believed the truth, but have consented to iniquity.
    [10] "God shall send": That is God shall suffer them to be deceived by lying wonders, and false miracles, in punishment of their not entertaining the love of truth.
    2 Thes. 2:7-11
    .--. .-.-.- ... .-.-.- ..-. --- .-. - .... . -.- .. -. --. -.. --- -- --..-- - .... . .--. --- .-- . .-. .- -. -.. -....- -....- .--- ..- ... - -.- .. -.. -.. .. -. --. .-.-.

    Offline Marlelar

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    Re: Let's move on already!
    « Reply #3 on: July 26, 2017, 12:22:46 AM »
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  • I don't think the society is dead.  Down but not out.  

    I think the fact the proposed "deal" with Rome fell through is a positive sign.

    Offline Incredulous

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    Re: Let's move on already!
    « Reply #4 on: July 26, 2017, 10:22:33 AM »
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  • I don't think the society is dead.  Down but not out.  

    I think the fact the proposed "deal" with Rome fell through is a positive sign.

    Down, but not out?




    The SSPX is brain dead....... flat lined out    :facepalm:

    Unplug their resuscitator (i.e., stop funding them).

    Why, because they accepted most of Vatican II.

    After breathing the poisonous "modernist incense"... the SSPX leaders have suffered mental displacement.

    They will never be the same nor ever return to +ABL's apostolate.
    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi


    Offline bernadette

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    Re: Let's move on already!
    « Reply #5 on: July 26, 2017, 10:01:02 PM »
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  •  
    We heard recently of yet another horror story coming out of Immaculate Conception Church in Post Falls. Reportedly, a large, well respected family in that chapel just experienced a tragic break up. Add to that about five or six other such family break ups, (that we know of presonally), and other major scandals which surfaced in recent times.











    What do you mean?  Divorce?

    Offline Marlelar

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    Re: Let's move on already!
    « Reply #6 on: July 26, 2017, 10:51:41 PM »
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  • Quote
    We heard recently of yet another horror story coming out of Immaculate Conception Church in Post Falls. Reportedly, a large, well respected family in that chapel just experienced a tragic break up. Add to that about five or six other such family break ups, (that we know of presonally), and other major scandals which surfaced in recent times. 
    This is a red herring, the SSPX is not responsible for the personal problems/decisions of its parish members.

    The staff certainly could/should have been more alert regarding the "other" problem, however sinners know well how to hide their sins.  But once uncovered it should have been dealt with swiftly and severely.

    Offline bernadette

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    Re: Let's move on already!
    « Reply #7 on: July 26, 2017, 11:22:08 PM »
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  • The red herring?  I beg to differ.  The sspx priests believe they have the authority, and the life experience to advise families on where they should live, where they should send their children to school, they tell parents what their children should NOT be doing such as watching television playing computer games or even using a computer for that matter...they pressure couples to have children without taking into consideration the family's financial situation, their physical health or their mental health....there is immense pressure on women to bear children without any other cosideration...not only from priests but from other "trad " mothers....these things are the private affairs of married couples and not the business of any priest.  I am a first hand witness to the cult like influence in the sspx.. so when a divorce or breakup occurs then why is it suddenly taboo and no ones business?  The sspx interferes and influences to such an extent that it is damn well their responsibility to answer for it.
    They lead like a cult..but when things go wrong they look the other way and play lum-de-dum....


    Offline Marlelar

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    Re: Let's move on already!
    « Reply #8 on: July 27, 2017, 12:07:14 AM »
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  • The red herring?  I beg to differ.  The sspx priests believe they have the authority, and the life experience to advise families on where they should live, where they should send their children to school, they tell parents what their children should NOT be doing such as watching television playing computer games or even using a computer for that matter...they pressure couples to have children without taking into consideration the family's financial situation, their physical health or their mental health....there is immense pressure on women to bear children without any other cosideration...not only from priests but from other "trad " mothers....these things are the private affairs of married couples and not the business of any priest.  I am a first hand witness to the cult like influence in the sspx.. so when a divorce or breakup occurs then why is it suddenly taboo and no ones business?  The sspx interferes and influences to such an extent that it is damn well their responsibility to answer for it.
    They lead like a cult..but when things go wrong they look the other way and play lum-de-dum....

    Adults should have more sense than to fall into the traps you accuse the SSPX of laying down for them.  God gave us brains and expects us to use them.  All we can do is pray for those who are weak of mind and choose not to work with the grace of intelligence that God has blessed them with.

    Offline bernadette

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    Re: Let's move on already!
    « Reply #9 on: July 27, 2017, 12:34:09 AM »
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  • Adults should have more sense than to fall into the traps you accuse the SSPX of laying down for them.  God gave us brains and expects us to use them.  All we can do is pray for those who are weak of mind and choose not to work with the grace of intelligence that God has blessed them with.
    This is why the sspx is a cult.  Many sspx followers are star struck by the priests...elevating them to a level beyond that which they should be accorded, as though they are, by their "state of grace" able to do no wrong.  I don't really know where this attitude originated...they are men, not saints. I am not saying there are no good priests, only that a priests expertise is not raising children or supporting families or dealing with the modern world...and so he should stick to teaching the faith and administering the sacraments.
    I note that you admit adults do "fall into traps"...God also ”gave brains" to the wolves in sheeps clothing who are cunning enough to prey on the simple gullible foolish souls.

    Offline Marlelar

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    Re: Let's move on already!
    « Reply #10 on: July 27, 2017, 01:07:51 AM »
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  • This is why the sspx is a cult.  Many sspx followers are star struck by the priests...elevating them to a level beyond that which they should be accorded, as though they are, by their "state of grace" able to do no wrong.  I don't really know where this attitude originated...they are men, not saints. I am not saying there are no good priests, only that a priests expertise is not raising children or supporting families or dealing with the modern world...and so he should stick to teaching the faith and administering the sacraments.
    I note that you admit adults do "fall into traps"...God also ”gave brains" to the wolves in sheeps clothing who are cunning enough to prey on the simple gullible foolish souls.
    The Society is NOT a cult, it is a religious association made up of sinful men, just like the rest of the world.  Wolves within?  I agree, just like any other organization.  This is why it is so important to use our BRAINS and not live by our emotions.  As Catholics we are blessed with a deposit of faith which we can research ourselves if troubled by something a priest says.  We also have the writings of hundreds, if not thousands of saints from which we can draw wisdom.  
    Part of teaching the faith IS to teach us how to live in the world but not of the world.  Priests are not technicians dispensing sacraments on call, they are to be our spiritual fathers, and as any good father would do they should advise us of the pitfalls we may encounter in life.  A good father is not controlling however and never dictates to his grown children exactly how to live life day by day.  Priests SHOULD be advising their flock, but not dictating to them.  
    It is a sad truth that priests are quite like biological fathers in that some fulfill their vocation better than others.



    Offline Incredulous

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    Re: Let's move on already!
    « Reply #11 on: July 27, 2017, 01:59:45 AM »
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  • This is a red herring, the SSPX is not responsible for the personal problems/decisions of its parish members.

    The staff certainly could/should have been more alert regarding the "other" problem, however sinners know well how to hide their sins.  But once uncovered it should have been dealt with swiftly and severely.
    Marlelar,

    Do you recall, at the tail-end of the ICA scandal, when Fr. Wegner showed-up, had private meetings with affected families and then declared with German efficiency, that, "The scandal is over"?

    Well, some of the families, discerned the supernatural magnitude of the problem.
    They had pleaded with Fr, Wegner to perform an exorcism rite on the parish and school, but the District Superior refused them. 



    Now we hear that there's general family discord at the parish?

    The families were right. and Fr. Wegner was wrong.

    The parish needs an exorcism and some organized acts of reparation by the faithful.


    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi

    Offline B from A

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    Re: Let's move on already!
    « Reply #12 on: July 27, 2017, 06:48:03 AM »
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  • Wow, I didn't know this Holly?
    ____________________________________________________________________________________________________________
    ...From there Fellay, apparently, decides that Fr. Vassal should become the chief priest at the Society’s largest church, St. Nicolas du Chardonnet in Paris, taking the place of a highly respected former prior whose behavior, so we’re told, deviated from company policy.
     
    The French SSPX faithful were waiting for Fr. Vassal's arrival. Father’s reputation had evidently preceded him. They protested vehemently. Vassal did not last two weeks at St. Nicolas. So back to Virginia he goes, where, according to the latest report, he has resumed his role as a teacher of (gulp!) moral theology.
    ____________________________________________________________________________________________________________

    How cool that the French faithful rejected him.

    "So what does Bp. Fellay do with him? He sends this priest back to the new seminary in Virginia to teach, (gasp!) moral theology. ..he has resumed his role as a teacher of (gulp!) moral theology."

    I hope the point of this was not lost on readers.  

    "How cool that the French faithful rejected him."

    Indeed. 

    Offline Mr G

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    Re: Let's move on already!
    « Reply #13 on: July 27, 2017, 08:16:49 AM »
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  • The red herring?  I beg to differ.  The sspx priests believe they have the authority, and the life experience to advise families on where they should live, where they should send their children to school, they tell parents what their children should NOT be doing such as watching television playing computer games or even using a computer for that matter...they pressure couples to have children without taking into consideration the family's financial situation, their physical health or their mental health....there is immense pressure on women to bear children without any other cosideration...not only from priests but from other "trad " mothers....these things are the private affairs of married couples and not the business of any priest.  I am a first hand witness to the cult like influence in the sspx.. so when a divorce or breakup occurs then why is it suddenly taboo and no ones business?  The sspx interferes and influences to such an extent that it is damn well their responsibility to answer for it.
    They lead like a cult..but when things go wrong they look the other way and play lum-de-dum....
    Priests should tell parents NOT to let their children watch TV, play Video games, and all the other distractions that can often be occasions of sin. If they did  not, then you would still hear complaints of "the priests fail to warn their faithful of moral dangers". I am grateful to Bishop Zendejas and Fr. Ballini to warn the faithful of avoiding the traps of the world and all it's sinfully allurements. But that is not to say there are cult like attitude to be found in the SSPX or any other group for that matter. By the way how is Fr. Pfeiffer doing?

    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: Let's move on already!
    « Reply #14 on: July 28, 2017, 11:32:26 AM »
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  • This is why the sspx is a cult.  Many sspx followers are star struck by the priests...elevating them to a level beyond that which they should be accorded, as though they are, by their "state of grace" able to do no wrong.  I don't really know where this attitude originated...they are men, not saints. I am not saying there are no good priests, only that a priests expertise is not raising children or supporting families or dealing with the modern world...and so he should stick to teaching the faith and administering the sacraments.
    This "ask father" attitude was exactly where Catholics were in the 1950's and what got them into Vatican II and ultimately leaving the faith. There are hardly any real Catholics who LIVE the faith anymore, I think less than 1% of Catholics today live the faith. One would hope that in the SSPX one would find good shepherds, but from my experience today, that no longer is the case. Nevertheless, God always provides for those who seek truth. 
    I think that those who fall, do so because of their attachment to some sins and by rejecting God's grace, they go seeking teachers according to their own desires (priest who do not say anything or give the advice they want to hear). 
    The Vatican II church - Assisting Souls to Hell Since 1962

    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Mat 24:24