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Author Topic: Leo XIV Is a Doubtful Pope - Fr. Paul Kramer  (Read 902 times)

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Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Leo XIV Is a Doubtful Pope - Fr. Paul Kramer
« Reply #15 on: Yesterday at 04:40:15 PM »
Looking forward to it.

Yes, I made some progress toward it and am hoping to finish it over the weekend.

Dogmatic Sedevacantists:  falsely elevate the certainty of their conclusion to having dogmatic certainty (ignoring the fact that some Minor premises do not enjoy dogmatic certainty)

R&R:  run afoul of the Church's indefectibility, which is where SVs accuse them of heresy, since these DO in fact deny the dogmatic Marjor of the SV position.

Re: Leo XIV Is a Doubtful Pope - Fr. Paul Kramer
« Reply #16 on: Today at 09:38:26 AM »
Oh, yeah ... there's that for sure, where Father? Kramer has decided that Ratzinger was NOT a heretic because he didn't "mean it" when he taught the same heresy that he had first used to declare Bergoglio an AntiPope.

Father Kramer's first public statement that Bergoglio was an Anti-Pope was based on the latter's verbatim rejection of the dogmatic definition from Florence in claiming that the Old Covenant was still in force and salvific for the Jews.

Problem (for him):  Ratzinger (his hero) taught the exact same thing, on multiple occasions, and the "Saint" Wojtyla was the one who invented heresy.  In fact, Ratzinger was a brilliant man, even if a Modoernist, with advanced degrees from an era when they meant something ... whereas Bergoglio couldn't pass a quiz based on Baltimore Catechism No. 2, and called Traditional Catholics "Pelagians" when he obviously meant something like "Jansenists".  If anyone knew that what he was teaching denied prior dogmatic definition, that would have been Ratzinger and Wojtyla, where Bergoglio might quite believably plead ignorance were he confronted about this particular error.

I suspect that's why Father? Kramer decided that a Pope had to be "vehementer" ("vehemently") suspect of heresy before the Church could issue a judgment on his case.  I've never seen that qualificaition added by any of the Doctors or theologians who deal with the heretical pope problem.

But in his post there he slides from the "vehemently" position into "positive doubt".  So there's no positive doubt abuot the Rat?

Fr. Kramer wrote violenter which is a higher degree of suspicion than vehementer.  Nevertheless, Father is just describing the degree of suspicion that he holds Leo XIV to be at.  I don't think he has made it clear that violenter is the necessary degree of suspicion to justify doubt.  In his book on the issue of a heretical "pope", he uses the term "positive doubt" several times.


Offline Pax Vobis

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Re: Leo XIV Is a Doubtful Pope - Fr. Paul Kramer
« Reply #17 on: Today at 03:17:45 PM »
Leo and all the other V2 popes are absolutely heretics.  No doubt there.  None.  

The only “doubt” concerns their papal status.  And that’s only because it’s a first-time-in-history situation.  

Had the church previously had a pope-turned-heretic in office before…or a case of a heretic-prior-to-office-therefore-invalid-papacy, and given us historical guidelines, then V2 would’ve never happened.  Or, it would’ve been ignored by so many more Catholics.  

However, God has deemed that this situation is a novelty.  The modernist heretics have used this to their advantage because we don’t know how to act, except generally.  
But this lack of certainty in action only applies to the papal question.  There is certainty that all the V2 popes are heretics.  We know the doctrines they violated (and continue to do so).  On this, there is no doubt.  

Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Leo XIV Is a Doubtful Pope - Fr. Paul Kramer
« Reply #18 on: Today at 07:27:30 PM »
Fr. Kramer wrote violenter which is a higher degree of suspicion than vehementer.  Nevertheless, Father is just describing the degree of suspicion that he holds Leo XIV to be at.  I don't think he has made it clear that violenter is the necessary degree of suspicion to justify doubt.  In his book on the issue of a heretical "pope", he uses the term "positive doubt" several times.

Whether "vehement" or "violent" or whatever, it makes no difference (I had only seen English not the Latin), and certainly "vehementer" would also suffice to establish doubt.  Nor have I seen either of these terms applied to the heretic pope question by any theologian.


I suspect that this reflects more Father Kramer's own emotional reaction to Bergoglio, since that's the only criterion he uses to arbitrarily decide that Bergoglio was a heretic, but Ratzinger and Wojtyla were not for teaching the exact same thing.