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Author Topic: Leo XIV Is a Doubtful Pope - Fr. Paul Kramer  (Read 407 times)

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Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Leo XIV Is a Doubtful Pope - Fr. Paul Kramer
« Reply #5 on: Yesterday at 05:56:06 PM »
I would argue that the proto-Old Catholics (1870s) were more nuanced and closer to an orthodox position on the Papacy than are contemporary R&R trads...or post-Declaration of Utrecht (1889) Old Catholics! Please note that I stress here closer to orthodox, not that I any way claim the Old Catholic position to be orthodox.

I cannot develop this argument at this moment but I think it might be worth pursuing given the gravity of the question and the wide-spread dissemination of R&R thought.

Yes, I certainly think that would be worth developing, since you have the historical knowledge to do it.

I am working up a "Doubt & Resist" article, where after years of violent debates with SeanJohnson, where he called me a sodomite here one time because I simply pasted in a quote from +Lefebvre (without any comment from me) about how the See could very well be vacant ... Sean Johnson, in the end, actually adopted what I had referred to, tongue in cheek, as "sede-doubtism", namely D&R or "Doubt & Resist" ... and I thought that Hell was about to freeze over.  He had been one of the most aggressive and vitriolic haters of sede-anything-but-plenism.

I can demonstrate easily that it's the position +Lefebvre held, and I will invite the current R&R to accept the position of Archbishop Lefebvre rather than their current Old Catholic "R&R".  I appealed to them to consider Father Chazal's sedeimpoundism, but very few had taken it up, with some excepitions (e.g. I think that "Pax Vobis" has leaned in that direction).

Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Leo XIV Is a Doubtful Pope - Fr. Paul Kramer
« Reply #6 on: Yesterday at 06:00:01 PM »
Oh, and the lead of WM Review also was intrigued by the "Doubt & Resist" angle, and had been encouraging me to write it up.


Offline ElwinRansom1970

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Re: Leo XIV Is a Doubtful Pope - Fr. Paul Kramer
« Reply #7 on: Yesterday at 08:28:32 PM »
Yes, I certainly think that would be worth developing, since you have the historical knowledge to do it.

I am working up a "Doubt & Resist" article, where after years of violent debates with SeanJohnson, where he called me a sodomite here one time because I simply pasted in a quote from +Lefebvre (without any comment from me) about how the See could very well be vacant ... Sean Johnson, in the end, actually adopted what I had referred to, tongue in cheek, as "sede-doubtism", namely D&R or "Doubt & Resist" ... and I thought that Hell was about to freeze over.  He had been one of the most aggressive and vitriolic haters of sede-anything-but-plenism.

I can demonstrate easily that it's the position +Lefebvre held, and I will invite the current R&R to accept the position of Archbishop Lefebvre rather than their current Old Catholic "R&R".  I appealed to them to consider Father Chazal's sedeimpoundism, but very few had taken it up, with some excepitions (e.g. I think that "Pax Vobis" has leaned in that direction).
For me, Prevost's supposed Papacy is still an open question. I am not sure that he obtained a valid election because of the Bergoglio vacancy.

I am generally a sedeprivationist in regard to the cotemporary Papacy from Montini through Ratzinger. However, I am morally certain that Bergoglio never obtained a valid election, neither did Ratzinger properly abandon the valid election that he had obtained. So, with Bergoglio I was simply a sedevancantist. Again, I am currently in a "doubt" regarding what Prevost is -- a pope-elect or a heretic false occupier.