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Author Topic: Leo intends to free newChurch from all tradition  (Read 1725 times)

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Offline Twice dyed

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Re: Leo intends to free newChurch from all tradition
« Reply #30 on: March 04, 2026, 01:07:33 PM »
Somewhere on a small French forum, someone said that Econe used the 1965 missal for a period of time. He said it wasn't due to some doctrinal decision or liturgical complex...the reason being that the 1965 missal was abundantly available in those years...so, anti-climactic...sorry.
Can you imagine all these publishers of Missals stuck with tons of stock, because almost every one edition became obsolete within a couple of years?...satan at work.


If you want to see it, you can download a pdf (1750 pages ) here:
https://www.ccwatershed.org/2013/11/15/1965-missale-romanum-online/

Excerpt:"...The first major changes came when Inter Oecuмenici appeared in 1964. As a result, the 1965 Missale Romanum was published, a radical departure from the 1962 version. Only a few priestly prayers during Offertory and Canon were required to be said in Latin, and even those restrictions would be lifted a couple years later. You can download all 1,780 pages of the 1965 Missal in PDF form:

PDF Download: The 1965 Missal (1,785 pages)

..."
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Offline Steve

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Re: Leo intends to free newChurch from all tradition
« Reply #31 on: March 04, 2026, 09:32:51 PM »
Quote from: Plenus Venter on February 28, 2026, 11:05:46 PM
This is a Deepl translation of an excerpt from a long letter that Fr des Lauriers wrote to this same German journal in February 1980:

Archbishop Lefebvre claims never to have celebrated the so-called new Mass.
I take him at his word, and have already conceded this point to him (6). I conclude
that Archbishop Lefebvre had adopted, before 3 April 1969, the modifications
with which he complied until 24 December 1970, modifications which acquired, on 3 April 1969, the grave significance
that they have retained ever since.
I therefore acknowledge that I was mistaken in
stating that Archbishop Lefebvre celebrated the so-called new Mass; I maintain
that Archbishop Lefebvre behaved in such a way that one was
led to suppose so. Since, in fact, the omission of the said genuflections
officially and canonically signified the said new Mass,
at least from 30 November 1969 onwards...
Regarding genuflections... 

 I  don't think this is a reference to the Good Friday prayers and THOSE genuflections...
...but I  will bring it up here since there is discussion here about liturgical practices at Econe seminary under +ABL and the 1962 Missal, and Good Friday is almost upon us again...

  Does not the latter include a genuflection for the prayer to the Js?  Does anyone know if they genuflected (okay, kneel)... or remained standing for this prayer in those earlier days at Econe under +ABL?
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Offline Plenus Venter

Re: Leo intends to free newChurch from all tradition
« Reply #32 on: Yesterday at 06:32:23 PM »
Quote from: Steve on March 04, 2026, 09:32:51 PM
Regarding genuflections...

 I  don't think this is a reference to the Good Friday prayers and THOSE genuflections...
...but I  will bring it up here since there is discussion here about liturgical practices at Econe seminary under +ABL and the 1962 Missal, and Good Friday is almost upon us again...

  Does not the latter include a genuflection for the prayer to the Js?  Does anyone know if they genuflected (okay, kneel)... or remained standing for this prayer in those earlier days at Econe under +ABL?
I'm sorry Steve, I don't know the answer to that one.
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Offline Twice dyed

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Re: Leo intends to free newChurch from all tradition
« Reply #33 on: Yesterday at 10:02:21 PM »
Quote from: Steve on March 04, 2026, 09:32:51 PM
Regarding genuflections...

 I  don't think this is a reference to the Good Friday prayers and THOSE genuflections...
...but I  will bring it up here since there is discussion here about liturgical practices at Econe seminary under +ABL and the 1962 Missal, and Good Friday is almost upon us again...

  Does not the latter include a genuflection for the prayer to the Js?  Does anyone know if they genuflected (okay, kneel)... or remained standing for this prayer in those earlier days at Econe under +ABL?
The SSPX literature that I saw simply claimed that the Triduum is not part of the Roman Missal -- Typical Edition; not sure if that is true btw.  SSPX then use this "fact" to justify the reformed 1956 liturgy. ..and almost every couple of years the Good Friday prayer re: ѕуηαgσgυє of satan, and the rubric for kneeling ( or not), is like a yoyo. Diluted.

I don't think des Lauriers even remotely hinted about Holy week genuflections... 99 % certain +L wouldn't have knelt at the special OREMUS, et pro perf...
  1961, 62 missals show that you have to genuflect. Have you ever seen a SSPX priest genuflect at that moment? There is a critical reason why the celebrant should not kneel, historically speaking. The iws knelt to Our Lord as derision, ridicule, so that rubric is quite significant. I love that genuine Trad. word "perfidious" , which is exactly what describes His mortal enemies. Words matter.

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Offline Steve

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Re: Leo intends to free newChurch from all tradition
« Reply #34 on: Yesterday at 10:11:28 PM »
Thank you! 

This is helpful.

Probably just as well... leaves some room for personal discretion.  

Every year I  go through this angst, catch 22 about kneeling if you adhere to the last official Missal for TLM, the one that +ABL adopted, or not because you know about what the Church used to do (pointedly NOT kneel) before they messed with the Missal.  Since I've learned about this I have not kneeled, but would be helpful to know how +ABL handled this.
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