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Author Topic: Lefebvre-Thuc line  (Read 5715 times)

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Offline Fanny

Re: Lefebvre-Thuc line
« Reply #5 on: March 07, 2018, 11:22:17 AM »
Quote from: monka966 on March 07, 2018, 10:30:15 AM
OK, I know that Wikipedia is not the most reliable source of information but I was able to learn the names of Abp. Lefebvre's two co-consecrators: Alfred-Jean-Félix Ancel, Jean-Baptiste Victor Fauret. So, even if Card. Liénart withed his intention, he still performed the correct form and matter and most likely one of the two co-consecrators had the  right intention. In my opinion, Apb. Lefebvre always was a true Catholic priest and a true Catholic Bishop. May his soul rest in peace.


Read this:
https://catholiccandle.neocities.org/faith/the-sacramental-intention-which-is-needed-for-valid-sacraments.html
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Offline Fanny

Re: Lefebvre-Thuc line
« Reply #6 on: March 07, 2018, 11:24:07 AM »
Quote from: Ladislaus on March 07, 2018, 11:12:45 AM
Yes, but Lienart ordained +Lefebvre to the priesthood on his own, and if +Lefebvre wasn't a valid priest, it's doubtful that he could be validly consecrated a bishop.

Nevertheless, there's no doubt whatsoever about his validity.
Matter, form, and intent are all that are needed.
As long as the matter and form are done correctly, the Church assumes proper intent on both the bishop and ordinand unless one or the other makes a clear pronouncement otherwise.
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Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Lefebvre-Thuc line
« Reply #7 on: March 07, 2018, 11:43:21 AM »
Quote from: Fanny on March 07, 2018, 11:24:07 AM
Matter, form, and intent are all that are needed.
As long as the matter and form are done correctly, the Church assumes proper intent on both the bishop and ordinand unless one or the other makes a clear pronouncement otherwise.

I understand.  I was responding to a comment about the co-consecrators ... that it is not relevant to the question of validity.

Even IF the consecrator later revealed a withholding of intention, that would still not render the Sacrament invalid ... since he intended to DO what the Church does in performing the rite.
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Offline monka966

Re: Lefebvre-Thuc line
« Reply #8 on: March 07, 2018, 11:49:28 AM »
Thank you for pointing out the ordination fact, Ladislaus. I learned something today. 
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Offline Ladislaus

  • Supporter
Re: Lefebvre-Thuc line
« Reply #9 on: March 07, 2018, 12:08:41 PM »
Quote from: monka966 on March 07, 2018, 11:49:28 AM
Thank you for pointing out the ordination fact, Ladislaus. I learned something today.

Some people say that a man could be consecrated a bishop without being a priest first, but this is considered objectively doubtful.
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