Author Topic: +Lefebvre: SSPX must use 1962 reform (Read 7752 times)

NIFH · « **Reply #25 on:** May 15, 2022, 03:25:10 PM »

I have heard something about the addition of St. Joseph to the Canon having some relation to the fact that a recent pope gave him the title 'Patron of the Church'.

Incredulous · « **Reply #26 on:** May 15, 2022, 04:57:30 PM »

Quote from: NIFH on May 15, 2022, 02:34:59 PM

Several questions are involved in this writing, I will find the time to frame a structured reply. Can you help me find Rome's permission to use the old Holy Week? I was unaware of it.

St. Thomas teaches we must refuse orders in the case of 'periculum Fidei', not simply because a Pope happens to be full of freemasonic ideas.

When asked if he had been elected pope, Cardinal Siri, after expressing deep grief, replied "I cannot answer that question because I am bound by the oath of the conclave". Were he the pope, he could absolve himself of the oath and answer the question.

Here's a video with the 1958 Conclave history. Perot, a French video reporter filmed all five minutes of white smoke (4:38).

Cardinal Siri was elected Pope, but was threatened and intimidated to step down. Thus, the Conclave was invalidated.

Card. Siri had accepted the Office of the Papacy and had taken a papal name, Gregory XVII.

The Papacy suffered a coup d'etat and as Our Lady of LaSallete had warned, from that point on, the Church was eclipsed.

SeanJohnson · « **Reply #27 on:** May 15, 2022, 05:43:30 PM »

Quote from: Ladislaus on May 15, 2022, 03:23:10 PM

You couldn't be more wrong ... and you are pertinaciously wrong. It's precisely because the SVs reject that principle that they have adopted the SV position on the crisis. According to R&R principles, even in normal times, there's never a real doctrinal authority again in the Church short of a pope making a dogmatic definition. At least according to SVism, that prior normal of Catholics giving assent to the Magisterium will be restored when the hierarchy is restored.

I hope that I'm aroud when the restored hierarchy condemns your errors and you're forced to eat crow and when SVism is vindicated.

You’re kind of an idiot, aren’t you?

According to your heretical Protestant ecclesiology, any man at any time can declare the See vacant, and simply assert the “heresy” of the pope is manifest.

Pay no mind to the practical reality that since, could that heretical principal prevail, the unity of the mystical body becomes an impossibility since each man would erect his own subjective threshold and declare the See full or vacant as his own personal lights “inform” him.

Are you microdosing tonight??

Incredulous · « **Reply #28 on:** May 15, 2022, 09:26:50 PM »

Quote from: Pax Vobis on May 15, 2022, 03:00:26 PM

The original 1962 missal's changes can be broken down into 3 categories:
1. Making the 1955 Holy Week changes permanent.
2. Updating the calendar of saints and streamlining the ranking of feasts
3. Changes to the actual Mass? (this is debatable. See below).

People can yell and scream all they want about pts 1 and 2 but there's nothing inherently unorthodox or heretical about these changes. Were these changes perfect? No. Are they set in stone? No, so when we get an orthodox pope, he can edit/delete this mess for the future. No problem.

The only problem you can raise about the 1962 missal is with the changes to the Mass itself...a) inclusion of St Joseph in the canon, b) removal of the 2nd confiteor, c) maybe some other minor changes.

However, the ORIGINAL/1st edition of the 1962 missal (the one approved directly by Pope John23) did NOT add St Joseph to the canon (this was added in later editions). So if +ABL used the 1962 missal without St Joseph, then there's no problem there.

I'm not sure which edition removed the 2nd confiteor but +ABL added that back in, so no problem.

So really the use of the 1962 missal by +ABL can only be criticized for the Holy Week changes and the Calendar updates. I really think this is small potatoes. Pope Pius XII ordered these changes to occur (it takes years to update a calendar, so this work was started long before Pope John was pope). Even Fr Wathen said that these changes are minor and though not perfect, don't pose a big issue.

Pax,

The following Chiesa viva audio-book (from Defeatmodernism) includes correspondence between Baun (Bugnini) and his masonic superiors on his series of liturgical manipulations. Incredibly revealing.

The scandal was exposed slowly, by Father Luigi Villas's group in 1970.

By 1982, +ABL had to know the pedigree of Bugnini/Roncali/Montini/Wojtyla liturgical changes... were anti-tradition.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3X464pUhhxs&feature=youtu.be

St Giles · « **Reply #29 on:** May 15, 2022, 10:15:10 PM »

Quote from: Incredulous on May 15, 2022, 04:57:30 PM

Here's a video with the 1958 Conclave history. Perot, a French video reporter filmed all five minutes of white smoke (4:38).

Cardinal Siri was elected Pope, but was threatened and intimidated to step down. Thus, the Conclave was invalidated.

Card. Siri had accepted the Office of the Papacy and had taken a papal name, Gregory XVII.

The Papacy suffered a coup d'etat and as Our Lady of LaSallete had warned, from that point on, the Church was eclipsed.

According to this video, did Cardinal Siri go against Luke 14:26? Would his obligation have been to, knowing the risk, lay down his life for the church that some good may come of it? I would think his death would have sent a strong message, and by God's grace prevented the current crisis, or at least delay it. May God have mercy on his soul.

CathInfo.com

Author Topic: +Lefebvre: SSPX must use 1962 reform (Read 7752 times)

NIFH

Re: +Lefebvre: SSPX must use 1962 reform

Incredulous

Re: +Lefebvre: SSPX must use 1962 reform

SeanJohnson

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Incredulous

Re: +Lefebvre: SSPX must use 1962 reform

St Giles

Re: +Lefebvre: SSPX must use 1962 reform