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Offline Matthew

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Lady of Good Success Prophecy about +Lefebvre
« on: March 10, 2019, 01:05:57 PM »
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  • The Providential Prelate

    Dear TIA, 

    I have read your recent post discussing whether or not the Prelate to come who will restore the Church mentioned by Our Lady of Good Success was Archbishop Lefebvre. I was wondering if you could please make available those texts of prophecies, so I can have a better background to make up my own mind on this question. I would like to have the actual texts also to show to others who address this topic with me. 

    It would appreciate if you could add your interpretation of the texts. 

    Thank you for your orientation and clear answers to questions. 

    May Our Lady of Good Success help your important work. 

         M.P. 




    TIA responds: 

    Dear M.P., 

    Thank you for your kind words. We are pleased to respond to your request. 

    In the revelations to Mother Mariana de Jesus Torres in Quito, Ecuador, Our Lady of Good Success spoke several times of the Prelate who will restore the Church after her terrible trial in the 20th century. The most important of these references are presented below. They are taken from the 1790 manuscript by Fr. Manuel Sousa Pereira titled The Admirable Life of Madre Mariana De Jesus Torres, a work approved by the Church commission set up in 1986 to initiate the canonization process for the cause of Ven. Mother Mariana. 

    The golden era to come governed by a faithful Prelate 

    In the third apparition of January 16, 1599, Our Lady of Good Success came to reveal her identity to Mother Mariana and order her to have a statue made. This was shortly after the spiritual direction of the Conceptionist Convent had been removed from the Franciscan Friars and transferred to the Diocesan Bishop. Her words follow:

    Our Lady of Good Success

    Our Lady of Good Success
    “The separation of the Friars Minor has taken place by divine permission. Woe to those who openly worked to obscure the light of my Convent! But after some centuries, they will return to govern this beloved flock, which will always lament their absence and feel their loss. … 

    “Neither you nor your present-day daughters and sisters will see the happiness that will dawn for this blessed Convent. However, you and your faithful and obedient daughters should make sacrifices and implore God to hasten that time to come on this earth, for today marks the beginning of a dark night. 

    "But a golden era will come for this my Convent. Then a Prelate [Prelado], my most beloved son, blessed and prized before God, will understand by divine light the necessity for the daughters of my Immaculate Conception to subject themselves in exact obedience to the Friars Minor for their sanctification and perfection. This Prelate will ask the Vicar of my Most Holy Son here on Earth to restore the jurisdiction over this Convent to the Friars Minor. … 

    “Happy, blessed, and beloved by God will be my daughters of this time who, with humility and simplicity, will manifest their desire to subject themselves to my Franciscan Friars, following the [original] Rule and obeying that Prelate, my much beloved son. Their names will be written in the Sacred Heart of Jesus, their Divine Spouse, and in my own.” (Volume I, Chapter 22, pp. 142-143). 

    This prophecy supposes that the Prelate is yet to come, since the Immaculate Conception Convent in Quito is still under the Archdiocese of Quito and has not been returned to the direction of the Franciscans. The cloistered sisters in the Convent also have not yet returned to original Rule of the Conceptionists. 

    Since Our Lady said that this Prelate will ask the Vicar to restore the jurisdiction over this Convent to the Friars Minor, it is implicitly affirmed that he will not be the Pope. 

    Into his hands the Sanctuary scales will be placed 

    In the apparition of February 2, 1634, Our Lady spoke again of that Prelate to Mother Mariana. The latter saw the sanctuary light of the Church extinguished, and then Our Lady explained to her the five symbols of that fact. Speaking of the crisis in the clergy in the 20th century, Our Lady told her to pray insistently for the Prelate to come in order to bring to an end those terrible times. These were her words: 

    “In this epoch, the Secular Clergy will be far removed from its ideal, because the priests will be careless in their sacred duties. Losing the divine compass, they will stray from the road traced by God for the priestly ministry and they will become attached to wealth and riches, which they will unduly strive to obtain. 

    “How this Church will suffer on that occasion the dark night from the lack of a Prelate and Father to watch over them with paternal love, gentleness, strength, discernment and prudence! Many priests will lose their spirit, placing their souls in great danger.

    St. Micahel the Archangel

    St. Michael with the scales of justice
    “Pray insistently without tiring and weep with bitter tears in the secrecy of your heart, imploring our Celestial Father that, for love of the Eucharistic Heart of my Most Holy Son and His Precious Blood shed with such generosity and by the profound bitterness and sufferings of His cruel Passion and Death, He might take pity on His ministers and quickly bring to an end those ominous times, sending to this Church the Prelate who will restore the spirit of its priests. 

    “ My Most Holy Son and I will love this favored son with a love of predilection, and we shall gift him with a rare capacity, humility of heart, docility to divine inspirations, the strength to defend the rights of the Church, and a tender and compassionate heart, so that, like another Christ, he will assist the great and the small, without despising the more unfortunate souls who ask him for light and counsel in their doubts and hardships. With divine suavity, he will guide the souls consecrated to the service of God in the cloisters, making light the yoke of the Lord, Who said, ‘My yoke is sweet, and my burden light.’ 

    “Into his hands the scales of the Sanctuary will be placed so that everything is weighed with due measure and God will be glorified” (Volume II, Chapter 14, pp. 212-214). 

    Our Lady added that “the tepidity of all the souls consecrated to God in the priestly and religious state will delay the coming of this Prelate and Father.” (ibid) 

    This text also strongly suggests that this Prelate is still to come, since he is supposed to restore not just one religious order or establish a new one, but “to bring an end to those ominous times” and to oversee the entire restoration of the Church. Our Lady promised to give this man the strength and means he will need to defend the rights of the Church. This text portrays for us a man without any compromise. 

    This time of destruction, Our Lady told us, will be a most horrible night, when evil will appear to triumph. However, in the thick of that great trial, she promised she will triumph. She said: 

    “This, then, will mark the arrival of my hour, when I, in a marvelous way, will dethrone the proud and cursed Satan, trampling him under my feet and fettering him in the infernal abyss. Thus the Church and Country [Ecuador] will finally be free of his cruel tyranny.” 

    It seems clear that we have not reached this moment, and are still awaiting not only the Prelate to come but also the direct intercession of Our Lady to free the Church from the “cruel tyranny” of the Devil, who has been given enormous liberties to wreak destruction in the Church and society. 

    These are the principal texts in the revelations received by Mother Mariana that speak of that Prelate. 

    We hope they will be useful for you. 

         Cordially, 

         TIA correspondence desk
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    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Lady of Good Success Prophecy about +Lefebvre
    « Reply #1 on: March 10, 2019, 01:10:53 PM »
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  • Talk about the dangers of emotion and sentimentality!

    I've actually spoken with a lady -- very emotional, by the way; my wife and I got to know her very well -- actually put forward this prophecy as evidence that she should stick with the SSPX even today, when there is legions of evidence they are compromising with the World and Vatican II (but I repeat myself).

    Did she even read the prophecy?

    It's about the Prelate. Yes, it might have referred to +ABL. But the prophecy says nothing about the organization he founded, where that organization would go in the future, any future leaders of that organization, or the uprightness of Zionist lawyers that would work for that organization someday.

    JUST THE PRELATE. Nothing more.

    And newsflash: that Prelate has a more obvious successor than anyone in the current SSPX: namely, +Williamson. Bp. Williamson's words, his actions (consecrating 3 bishops for Tradition without trucking with Modern Rome) are much more in line with +ABL.
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    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Lady of Good Success Prophecy about +Lefebvre
    « Reply #2 on: March 10, 2019, 01:19:24 PM »
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  • But you can see that to someone with a simplistic mind, and/or a low IQ, their thinking would be along these lines.

    Prophecy = +ABL good.
    +ABL started SSPX.
    SSPX good.

    Resistance against SSPX.
    Resistance bad.

    Devil also against SSPX.
    Resistance = devil.


    I've actually met many people who have uttered these various conclusions -- so while this argumentation might be objectively ridiculous, many SSPX Trads have fully embraced it!
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Lady of Good Success Prophecy about +Lefebvre
    « Reply #3 on: March 10, 2019, 05:35:38 PM »
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  • And the mentioned Prelate is obviously not +Lefebvre since he did not do what is prophesied of this prelate.

    I can't stand theology by private revelation.  XavierSem was doing that on another thread.

    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Lady of Good Success Prophecy about +Lefebvre
    « Reply #4 on: March 10, 2019, 08:33:08 PM »
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  • Logically, this prelate would be an Ecuadorian Bishop or priest from that country, since this part of the prophecy is related to the specific country and their order (compared to other parts of the prophecy which concern the whole world).  How could +ABL have anything to do with Ecuador?  Makes no sense.  


    Offline Plenus Venter

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    Re: Lady of Good Success Prophecy about +Lefebvre
    « Reply #5 on: March 11, 2019, 05:09:39 AM »
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  • Is the Prelate mentioned in the apparition of 1599 (the one who will restore the Convent to the direction of the Franciscan Fathers) necessarily the same Prelate referred to by Our Lady in the apparition of 1634 who will restore the spirit of his priests? I do not see from these texts that they are necessarily, or even likely, one and the same person. Nor do I see from the texts presented here that it excludes Archbishop Lefebvre as being that Prelate. I would be interested if anyone can throw any light on this.

    Offline XavierSem

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    Re: Lady of Good Success Prophecy about +Lefebvre
    « Reply #6 on: March 11, 2019, 05:44:27 AM »
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  • I've always believed the Prelate to be the Angelic Pastor, the foretold Holy Pope to come, who will bring restoration. Some of the things mentioned he could do before becoming Pope and the others after it. Archbishop Lefebvre would be a prefigurement of this Prelate. It is only holy Bishops and Popes who can save the Church. None of us will know who the Prelate will be until the hour comes. He will likely be the Pope who with the world's Bishops will Consecrate Russia to the Immaculate Heart, and will restore Tradition in the Church. God will send us this holy Pastor at the right time. According to Mother Mariana's revelations, the time of his coming can be hastened by prayer. "He might take pity on His ministers and quickly bring to an end those ominous times, sending to this Church the Prelate who will restore the spirit of Her priests." Also, a confirmation that there are valid Priests, but have lost their sacerdotal spirit.

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    I can't stand theology by private revelation.  XavierSem was doing that on another thread.
    Have it your own way, Ladislaus. I also cited Fr. G-L, St. Thomas, Sacred Scripture and standard principles of sacramental theology, beside private revelation. But you can misrepresent it if it makes you happy. St. Alphonsus, btw, apart from various other Saints and sources, also cites revelations made by Our Lord and Our Lady, and Angels, to the Saints, in proof of particular teachings, for e.g. in the Glories of Mary on Her Sorrows and Dolors: "This is precisely what the angel revealed to St. Bridget; and he also added, `that the Blessed Virgin, even before she became His Mother, knowing how much the Incarnate Word was to suffer for the salvation of men, and compassionating this innocent Saviour, who was to be so cruelly put to death for crimes not His own, even then began her great martyrdom ...The Divine Mother herself revealed to Saint Bridget, that "even after the death and ascension of her Son, whether she ate, or worked, the remembrance of His passion was ever deeply impressed on her mind, and fresh in her tender heart" ... I say voluntarily, since, as Saint Agnes revealed to Saint Bridget, "our compassionate and benign Mother was satisfied rather to endure any torment than that our souls should not be redeemed, and be left in their former state of perdition." See: https://www.ewtn.com/library/MARY/7DOLORS.HTM So a Doctor of the Church disagrees with that. Private revelation has its place.
    Do make Acts of Consecration to the Twin Hearts, Spiritual Offerings of the Precious Blood of Jesus in Union with the Holy Mass, like in St. Gertrude's Chaplet, along with Spiritual Communions at least every hour. The Saints say Spiritual Communions are a way to quickly advance to Union with God.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Lady of Good Success Prophecy about +Lefebvre
    « Reply #7 on: March 11, 2019, 08:02:01 AM »
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  • I've always believed the Prelate to be the Angelic Pastor, the foretold Holy Pope to come, who will bring restoration.

    Did you even bother reading the article?  It's clear that the Prelate cannot be a pope, since one of the things foretold of him is that he would petition the Pope for something.


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Lady of Good Success Prophecy about +Lefebvre
    « Reply #8 on: March 11, 2019, 08:04:56 AM »
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  • Have it your own way, Ladislaus. I also cited Fr. G-L, St. Thomas, Sacred Scripture and standard principles of sacramental theology, beside private revelation.

    You've cited nothing relevant.

    You've declared that the reason you like SSPX over FSSP is due to the size of their seminary and their organization.  You have no theological reasons whatsoever for the preference.  Instead you cite the purported words of Satan from an exorcism.  [PS, you do realize, don't you?, the difference between private revelations that have been approved by the Church and your personal interpretation of purported revelations lacking such approval, right?]

    You have not give one single reason why you cannot in conscience be in full communion with the Catholic hierarchy by joining with the FSSP.  You just like SSPX better for entirely superficial reasons and some private revelation (falsely interpreted, since you don't even seem to be able to read the actual texts).

    Offline XavierSem

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    Re: Lady of Good Success Prophecy about +Lefebvre
    « Reply #9 on: March 11, 2019, 08:28:12 AM »
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  • I did it read it and that's why I said, "Some of the things mentioned he could do before becoming Pope and the others after it." I don't know why you jump to conclusions and why you are so hostile. But I'm not going to reply to you in kind.

    Many of the things foretold about how the Prelate would effect wider restoration, as the article itself mentions, "he is supposed to restore not just one religious order or establish a new one, but “to bring an end to those ominous times” and to oversee the entire restoration of the Church." would suggest he will be the Shepherd not merely of a particular Church, but of the universal Church.

    I said the SSPX is more effective in contributing toward the salvation of souls worldwide and therefore in my opinion is the best traditional order worldwide. I don't consider the others non-Catholic, but less good. The need of the hour is at least 10,000 traditional Mass centres every Sunday if not more frequently, and all traditional orders combined have not reached that yet. I don't consider the SSPX outside full communion, so that's just a strawman that is gratuitously asserted. I'm not interested in getting into a polemic or a flame war with you. Is our purpose really the sanctification and salvation of our and other souls in all we do, Ladislaus? That is the only question men of God should ask themselves. And hopefully, the answer will be yes, or at least we're striving for it be so. God blesses nothing so much as endeavors for the salvation and sanctification of souls, of our souls, of all souls, if possible. Peace be with you.
    Do make Acts of Consecration to the Twin Hearts, Spiritual Offerings of the Precious Blood of Jesus in Union with the Holy Mass, like in St. Gertrude's Chaplet, along with Spiritual Communions at least every hour. The Saints say Spiritual Communions are a way to quickly advance to Union with God.

    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Lady of Good Success Prophecy about +Lefebvre
    « Reply #10 on: March 11, 2019, 10:53:05 AM »
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  • Quote
    I said the SSPX is more effective in contributing toward the salvation of souls worldwide and therefore in my opinion is the best traditional order worldwide.
    Your opinion on the effectiveness or spiritual good of an order or church is irrelevant as a layman.  You have no rights to decide these questions, per Canon Law.  You have a moral obligation, under pain of mortal sin, to be under jurisdiction of your local Bishop, if you believe he is a valid Bishop.  You have the moral obligation, under pain of mortal sin, to attend mass at your local diocese.  Those who accept the local diocese as valid must obey their local bishop or you're a schismatic and will go to hell for disobeying Church Law.

    Quote
    I don't consider the others non-Catholic, but less good. The need of the hour is at least 10,000 traditional Mass centres every Sunday if not more frequently, and all traditional orders combined have not reached that yet. I don't consider the SSPX outside full communion, so that's just a strawman that is gratuitously asserted.
    If you consider the local diocese and all new-rite bishops to be 1) valid and 2) hold jurisdiction from the pope, and 3) provide valid mass/sacraments, then you have no excuse for attending the sspx, no matter how orthodox the diocesan priests are or aren't. 
    You reject every argument that Traditionalism makes for why they are Traditionalist (and the new-sspx increasingly does the same).  Therefore, your attendance at a Trad chapel is baseless and sinful (for you).  It is not sinful for true Trads because we find quasi-heresies and doubt where you do not.


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Lady of Good Success Prophecy about +Lefebvre
    « Reply #11 on: March 11, 2019, 11:23:00 AM »
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  • I don't consider the SSPX outside full communion, so that's just a strawman that is gratuitously asserted.

    You apply wishful thinking in pretending that SSPX is in full communion.  This is no strawman.  Put the question to any Novus Ordo prelate, including Francis Bergoglio and they would agree that there isn't full communion.  So the gratuitous assertion is entirely on your part.  They are not in or under any ordinary jurisdictional structure of the Church but operate a rogue operation outside of the Church's jurisdiction.  Because Bergoglio has offered to supply jurisdiction for their Confession, this does not put them into full Communion.  Burden of proof is entire on you to demonstrate the existence of full communion.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Lady of Good Success Prophecy about +Lefebvre
    « Reply #12 on: March 11, 2019, 11:24:06 AM »
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  • Your opinion on the effectiveness or spiritual good of an order or church is irrelevant as a layman.  You have no rights to decide these questions, per Canon Law.  You have a moral obligation, under pain of mortal sin, to be under jurisdiction of your local Bishop, if you believe he is a valid Bishop.  You have the moral obligation, under pain of mortal sin, to attend mass at your local diocese.  Those who accept the local diocese as valid must obey their local bishop or you're a schismatic and will go to hell for disobeying Church Law.
    If you consider the local diocese and all new-rite bishops to be 1) valid and 2) hold jurisdiction from the pope, and 3) provide valid mass/sacraments, then you have no excuse for attending the sspx, no matter how orthodox the diocesan priests are or aren't.
    You reject every argument that Traditionalism makes for why they are Traditionalist (and the new-sspx increasingly does the same).  Therefore, your attendance at a Trad chapel is baseless and sinful (for you).  It is not sinful for true Trads because we find quasi-heresies and doubt where you do not.

    Right, and he considers groups like FSSP and ICK to be completely Catholic and good ... just less good.  This man is clearly in schism.  There need to be grave reasons of conscience for someone to withdraw from full Communion with the Catholic hierarchy.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Lady of Good Success Prophecy about +Lefebvre
    « Reply #13 on: March 11, 2019, 11:33:10 AM »
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  • I don't know why you jump to conclusions and why you are so hostile.

    I'm hostile because you're spewing error with every post, and you've shown yourself to be a Modernist in a number of areas.  In particular, you are driven by emotion-based touchy-feely pseudo-theology which is incredibly pernicious.

    There's too much of this stuff plaguing the Traditional movement, from Father Hewko to "Father" Poisson.  You too will soon be citing a baby's bowel movement in the presence of Bishop Fellay as a reason for your attending the SSPX.
    https://www.cathinfo.com/sspx-resistance-news/comedy-gold-letter-from-fr-poisson-'baby-had-a-bowel-movement'/

    Matthew has rightly called out the outwardly pious and devout, but hyper-emotional, priest syndrome, where their convictions and principles and theology are polluted by emotional considerations.  You are squarely in that same camp.

     

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