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Author Topic: Joint Statement of SSPX-MC Priests: Fr. David Hewko & Fr. Hugo Ruiz V  (Read 23402 times)

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Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Joint Statement of SSPX-MC Priests: Fr. David Hewko & Fr. Hugo Ruiz V
« Reply #210 on: August 27, 2023, 04:54:06 PM »
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    • Quote from: Catholic Knight on August 27, 2023, 04:38:53 PM
    The R&R position is extinct.  We cannot recognize one as pope who has manifestly shown himself to a public formal heretic.

    Then how do you recognize that Ratzinger was the pope?
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    Offline Catholic Knight

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    Re: Joint Statement of SSPX-MC Priests: Fr. David Hewko & Fr. Hugo Ruiz V
    « Reply #211 on: August 27, 2023, 04:57:22 PM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on August 27, 2023, 04:54:06 PM
    Then how do you recognize that Ratzinger was the pope?

    I do not hold that Benedict XVI was a pubic manifest formal heretic.
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    Offline Meg

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    Re: Joint Statement of SSPX-MC Priests: Fr. David Hewko & Fr. Hugo Ruiz V
    « Reply #212 on: August 27, 2023, 05:07:03 PM »
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    • Quote from: Catholic Knight on August 27, 2023, 04:36:01 PM
    Oh, no, Meg.  These are not interpretations of Fr. Kramer.  Fr. Kramer just quotes the works of canonists.  The following quotes of my earlier post are directly from those canonists' works.  The first quote is regarding Canon 188 of the 1917 Code; the second quote is regarding Canon 194 of the 1983 Code.  Both canons deal with the automatic loss of office due to public defection from the Catholic Faith. 

    "Public defection from the faith, by formal heresy or apostasy, with or without affiliation with another religious society. The offense must be public, that is, generally known or liable to become so before long. (Can. 2197)"
    (Very Rev. H. A. Ayrinhac)

    "A formal act (i.e. a declaration that one has left the Church) is not required for the defection in canon 194; the only requirement is that it be public (known or likely to become known).  Neither is it required that the officeholder join another religion, although this could be an objective indication of defection."
    (John P. Beal)

    Will you now admit, Meg, that you are wrong that leaving the Church is required for a public defection from the Catholic Faith to take place?

    Fr. Kramer is applying the words of the canonists to use for his interpretation of a particular canon law which they (canonists) were not actually addressing. That's what Benevacantists do. They, and you, have to do that, since canon does not stipulate what you say it does. Benevacantists, like their cousins the regular sedevacantists, don't have a leg to stand on, when it comes to explicit canon law saying what they (you) say that it means. You have to find a roundabout way to try to prove your case. It doesn't work.
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    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline Catholic Knight

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    Re: Joint Statement of SSPX-MC Priests: Fr. David Hewko & Fr. Hugo Ruiz V
    « Reply #213 on: August 27, 2023, 05:17:49 PM »
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    • Quote from: Meg on August 27, 2023, 05:07:03 PM
    Fr. Kramer is applying the words of the canonists to use for his interpretation of canon law. That's what Benevacantists do. They, and you, have to do that, since canon does not stipulate what you say it does. Benevacantists, like their cousins the regular sedevacantists, don't have a leg to stand on, when it comes to explicit canon law saying what they (you) say that it means. You have to find a roundabout way to try to prove your case. It doesn't work.

    Meg, I have presented to you black and white evidence from canonists that the public defection of the Catholic Faith in Canon Law does not exclusively mean leaving the Catholic Church and you continue rambling on denying that evidence.  If I said that 2+2=4, you would say that you don't agree with my interpretation of the formula.  I will no longer waste my time with you in this discussion.  Bye bye, Meg.
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    Offline Catholic Knight

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    Re: Joint Statement of SSPX-MC Priests: Fr. David Hewko & Fr. Hugo Ruiz V
    « Reply #214 on: August 27, 2023, 05:26:20 PM »
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    Online Pax Vobis

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    Re: Joint Statement of SSPX-MC Priests: Fr. David Hewko & Fr. Hugo Ruiz V
    « Reply #215 on: August 27, 2023, 06:10:21 PM »
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    • Catholic Knight, in 2 posts, you have shown the exact problem and limitation of your private-interpretation theology.  1) You chastise Meg because she doesn’t see the clear evidence that Francis is a manifest heretic.  2). Many of us say that Benedict was a manifest heretic, but you disagree.  

    :laugh1:  Oh the irony.  
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    Offline Catholic Knight

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    Re: Joint Statement of SSPX-MC Priests: Fr. David Hewko & Fr. Hugo Ruiz V
    « Reply #216 on: August 27, 2023, 07:55:15 PM »
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    • Quote from: Pax Vobis on August 27, 2023, 06:10:21 PM
    Catholic Knight, in 2 posts, you have shown the exact problem and limitation of your private-interpretation theology.  1) You chastise Meg because she doesn’t see the clear evidence that Francis is a manifest heretic.  2). Many of us say that Benedict was a manifest heretic, but you disagree. 

    :laugh1:  Oh the irony. 

    In which post did I chastise Meg because she doesn't see the clear evidence that Francis is a manifest heretic?
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    Offline NIFH

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    Re: Joint Statement of SSPX-MC Priests: Fr. David Hewko & Fr. Hugo Ruiz V
    « Reply #217 on: August 27, 2023, 10:08:39 PM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on August 27, 2023, 12:08:45 PM
    the Archbishop upheld the MAJOR of the SV position, namely, that the Holy Spirit protects the Papacy and does not allow it to destroy the Church to this degree.  He repeatedly affirmed that.  Father Ringrose, one of the founding thought leaders in the original Resistance, posted the audio of a speech given by the Archbishop where he explicitly stated this.
    Repeatedly?  I have never found a second record of that statement.  In that speech, he did indeed agree with the proposition.  His ears were still ringing from the crisis blowing like a bombshell in front of his face.  He was groping for an understanding, mostly by instinct at that point, and almost entirely alone.  On the contrary, before 1976 was even over, he spoke on that proposition again, and did not say he agreed with it.
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    Offline Catholic Knight

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    Re: Joint Statement of SSPX-MC Priests: Fr. David Hewko & Fr. Hugo Ruiz V
    « Reply #218 on: August 29, 2023, 06:37:35 AM »
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    • Quote from: Pax Vobis on August 27, 2023, 06:10:21 PM
    Catholic Knight, in 2 posts, you have shown the exact problem and limitation of your private-interpretation theology.  1) You chastise Meg because she doesn’t see the clear evidence that Francis is a manifest heretic.  2). Many of us say that Benedict was a manifest heretic, but you disagree. 

    :laugh1:  Oh the irony. 

    I ask you again: in which post did I chastise Meg because she doesn't see the clear evidence that Francis is a manifest heretic? 

    You accused me of something, so please back it up.  Or are you going to be deaf and dumb as you were with the other question that you refused to directly answer?      
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    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Joint Statement of SSPX-MC Priests: Fr. David Hewko & Fr. Hugo Ruiz V
    « Reply #219 on: August 29, 2023, 07:24:43 AM »
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    • Quote from: Catholic Knight on August 27, 2023, 04:57:22 PM
    I do not hold that Benedict XVI was a public manifest formal heretic.
    Can you be specific as to why Bergoglio is and why Ratzinger is not? What is the specific difference between them in your opinion?
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    Offline Catholic Knight

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    Re: Joint Statement of SSPX-MC Priests: Fr. David Hewko & Fr. Hugo Ruiz V
    « Reply #220 on: August 29, 2023, 11:13:26 AM »
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    • Quote from: 2Vermont on August 29, 2023, 07:24:43 AM
    Can you be specific as to why Bergoglio is and why Ratzinger is not? What is the specific difference between them in your opinion?

    One of the big points is that Pope Benedict XVI held to his notion of "hermeneutic of continuity", which tried (but failed) to interpret Vatican II in the light of Tradition.  This is a strong sign that he did not want to teach heresy.
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    Offline Angelus

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    Re: Joint Statement of SSPX-MC Priests: Fr. David Hewko & Fr. Hugo Ruiz V
    « Reply #221 on: August 29, 2023, 03:20:02 PM »
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    • Quote from: 2Vermont on August 29, 2023, 07:24:43 AM
    Can you be specific as to why Bergoglio is and why Ratzinger is not? What is the specific difference between them in your opinion?

    2Vermont, the answer is simple. Ratzinger/Benedict XVI has never officially taught something that contradicts a de fide doctrine of the Catholic faith. Bergoglio has officially taught such, in Amoris Laetitia, and has obstinately refused to correct his error when confronted with the Dubia.
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    Offline mikhael

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    Re: Joint Statement of SSPX-MC Priests: Fr. David Hewko & Fr. Hugo Ruiz V
    « Reply #222 on: October 09, 2024, 03:39:51 PM »
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    • Quote from: SeanJohnson on July 11, 2023, 08:37:01 AM
    Yup, they’ve been saying that stupid shit for years.  By arbitrarily deciding what God can do, and why He can do it, they dismiss as impossible that which is eminently plausible.  The basis of their error is pretending that any such miracle must necessarily endorse the Novus Ordo (rather than promote belief in the Real Presence which that rite attacks).  I say pretend, because this nonsense really began as an opportune club for an already warring Fr. Pfeiffer to beat +Williamson with.  Hewko realized that he could abandon Pfeiffer, but not Pfeifferianism, if he wanted to retain any faithful (who still expect him to give Williamson the occasional wallop, to prove he’s still the last of the Mohicans, if he wants to retain them).
    Cursing like a demon with this seethe & cope.
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    Offline Emile

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    Re: Joint Statement of SSPX-MC Priests: Fr. David Hewko & Fr. Hugo Ruiz V
    « Reply #223 on: October 09, 2024, 03:55:16 PM »
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    • Quote from: mikhael on October 09, 2024, 03:39:51 PM
    Cursing like a demon with this seethe & cope.
    Good grief, Hewkonian, what's the matter with you man?
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    Good judgment comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgment.

    Offline mikhael

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    Re: Joint Statement of SSPX-MC Priests: Fr. David Hewko & Fr. Hugo Ruiz V
    « Reply #224 on: October 09, 2024, 03:56:58 PM »
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    • Quote from: Emile on October 09, 2024, 03:55:16 PM
    Good grief, Hewkonian, what's the matter with you man?
    Huh?
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