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Author Topic: Joint Statement of SSPX-MC Priests: Fr. David Hewko & Fr. Hugo Ruiz V  (Read 28949 times)

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Offline Catholic Knight

Re: Joint Statement of SSPX-MC Priests: Fr. David Hewko & Fr. Hugo Ruiz V
« Reply #150 on: August 18, 2023, 11:15:30 AM »
Quote from: SeanJohnson on August 07, 2023, 10:57:42 AM
Not really:

The pope would be a declared heretic the moment he declared himself a heretic (i.e., simultaneously).

In this day and age, don't be so certain about that.
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Offline Catholic Knight

Re: Joint Statement of SSPX-MC Priests: Fr. David Hewko & Fr. Hugo Ruiz V
« Reply #151 on: August 18, 2023, 11:20:23 AM »
Quote from: Meg on August 07, 2023, 11:16:50 AM
The canon law on which you base your thesis doesn't say anything about heresy. It says that a public defection from the faith is required to lose an office. I don't recall that Francis or any of the conciliar popes as publicly stating or making an announcement to the whole Church that they were leaving the Catholic Church. That's what a "Public Defection" is, in the context of the canon law you cited.

The Canon in question does NOT state public defection from the "Church".  It states public defection from the "Faith".  Stop making up your own interpretation.  Read it in the Latin:

“Ob tacitam renuntiationem ab ipso iure admissam quaelibet officia vacant ipso facto et sine ulla declaratione, si clericus: A fide catholica publice defecerit.”

Leaving the Catholic Church and/or joining a sect is a TYPE of pubic defection from the Faith.  Knowingly, consciously, and willingly publicly asserting a proposition that is in direct contradiction to a Church teaching that must be believed with Divine and Catholic Faith is another TYPE of public defection from the Faith.
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Offline Quo vadis Domine

  • Supporter
Re: Joint Statement of SSPX-MC Priests: Fr. David Hewko & Fr. Hugo Ruiz V
« Reply #152 on: August 18, 2023, 12:07:00 PM »
Quote from: Pax Vobis on August 07, 2023, 10:05:13 AM
The church is not a democracy.  It is not individualistic.  Catholics don’t decide things “on our own” or by way of “personal decisions.”


Your question shows a lack of understanding of how a hierarchical organization works.  The closest organization that exists similar to the church would be the military.  If some General came out and said he was anti-America, the simple soldier on the ground does not have the authority to a) stop his mission, b) change his daily duties or c) lead an ιnѕυrrєcтισn against the bad general.  It’s above his pay-grade.  His opinion doesn’t matter.  What matters are his superiors and their orders for him. 

So to answer your question:  whether I (personally) accept pope x as pope matters 0%.  Even if pope x claims heresy.  It doesn’t change my daily duties as a catholic nor do I have any authority to lead any kind of rebellion.  My duties are to God not a pope. I can educate others on the heresy and tell them to pray for the papacy (in general terms), but the persons responsible for fixing the issue are a) God and b) church officials.


Wrong, your “duties” are to both God AND the pope. First to God and then to the pope who IS Gods representative on Earth. You have no right to flout any of his laws or disregard the obedience due to him unless he is asking you to do something that is MANIFESTLY sinful.
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Online Pax Vobis

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Re: Joint Statement of SSPX-MC Priests: Fr. David Hewko & Fr. Hugo Ruiz V
« Reply #153 on: August 18, 2023, 01:06:43 PM »
Quote
Wrong, your “duties” are to both God AND the pope. First to God and then to the pope who IS Gods representative on Earth. You have no right to flout any of his laws or disregard the obedience due to him unless he is asking you to do something that is MANIFESTLY sinful.
Not really.  Before the radio was invented, most Catholics had no interaction with the pope at all, for all of history.  Their main duty was to their local priest (most people have no interaction with their diocesan Bishop, either).  The parish priest was the conduit from Pope --> Bishop --> Parish Priest.
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Offline Angelus

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Re: Joint Statement of SSPX-MC Priests: Fr. David Hewko & Fr. Hugo Ruiz V
« Reply #154 on: August 18, 2023, 01:15:38 PM »
Quote from: Pax Vobis on August 18, 2023, 01:06:43 PM
Not really.  Before the radio was invented, most Catholics had no interaction with the pope at all, for all of history.  Their main duty was to their local priest (most people have no interaction with their diocesan Bishop, either).  The parish priest was the conduit from Pope --> Bishop --> Parish Priest.

What you say is not Catholic, Pax. See the bolded sections below.

Catechism of Pius X

50 Q. Who is the Pope?
A. The Pope, who is also called the Sovereign Pontiff, or the Roman Pontiff, is the Successor of St. Peter in the See of Rome, the Vicar of Jesus Christ on earth, and the visible Head of the Church.

51 Q. Why is the Roman Pontiff the Successor of St. Peter?
A. The Roman Pontiff is the Successor of St. Peter because St. Peter united in his own person the dignity of Bishop of Rome and that of Head of the Church; by divine disposition he established his Seat at Rome, and there died; hence, whosoever is elected Bishop of Rome is also heir to all his authority.

52 Q. Why is the Roman Pontiff the Vicar of Jesus Christ?
A. The Roman Pontiff is the Vicar of Jesus Christ because He represents Him on earth and acts in His stead in the government of the Church.

53 Q. Why is the Roman Pontiff the Visible Head of the Church?
A. The Roman Pontiff is the Visible Head of the Church because he visibly governs her with the authority of Jesus Christ Himself, who is her invisible Head.

54 Q. What, then, is the dignity of the Pope?
A. The dignity of the Pope is the greatest of all dignities on earth, and gives him supreme and immediate power over all and each of the Pastors and of the faithful.

55 Q. Can the Pope err when teaching the Church?
A. The Pope cannot err, that is, he is infallible, in definitions regarding faith and morals.

56 Q. How is it that the Pope is infallible?
A. The Pope is infallible because of the promise of Jesus Christ, and of the unfailing assistance of the Holy Ghost.

57 Q. When is the Pope infallible?
A. The Pope is infallible when, as Pastor and Teacher of all Christians and in virtue of his supreme Apostolic authority, he defines a doctrine regarding faith or morals to be held by all the Church.

58 Q. What sin would a man commit who should refuse to accept the solemn definitions of the Pope?
A. He who refuses to accept the solemn definitions of the Pope, or who even doubts them, sins against faith; and should he remain obstinate in this unbelief, he would no longer be a Catholic, but a heretic.

59 Q.Why has God granted to the Pope the gift of infallibility?
A. God has granted the Pope the gift of infallibility in order that we all may be sure and certain of the truths which the Church teaches.

60 Q. When was it defined that the Pope is infallible?
A.That the Pope is infallible was defined by the Church in the [First] Vatican Council; and should anyone presume to contradict this definition he would be a heretic and excommunicated.

61 Q. In defining that the Pope is infallible, has the Church put forward a new truth of faith?
A.No, in defining that the Pope is infallible the Church has not put forward a new truth of faith; but to oppose new errors she has simply defined that the infallibility of the Pope, already contained in Sacred Scripture and in Tradition, is a truth revealed by God, and therefore to be believed as a dogma or article of faith.

62 Q.How should every Catholic act towards the Pope?
A.Every Catholic must acknowledge the Pope as Father, Pastor, and Universal Teacher, and be united with him in mind and heart.

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