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Author Topic: Joint Statement of SSPX-MC Priests: Fr. David Hewko & Fr. Hugo Ruiz V  (Read 28992 times)

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Offline Pax Vobis

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Re: Joint Statement of SSPX-MC Priests: Fr. David Hewko & Fr. Hugo Ruiz V
« Reply #100 on: July 19, 2023, 10:30:35 AM »

Quote
While not every papal teaching is infallible, it's not possible that pretty much the entire Magisterium outside of infallible teaching can become so corrupt as to make it unrecognizable as Catholic and an obstacle to the salvation of souls.
Well, that's really your opinion because, as this crisis has proven, God has allowed evil that is beyond everyone's comprehension. 


In the practical order (i.e. what we can see, hear and feel), the non-infallible Magisterium is corrupted.

Theoretically, R&R and Sedes argue away the practical corruption, and come to the same conclusion, from different angles.
R&R - The non-infallible Magisterium is corrupted but what matters is the infallible Magisterium which is still intact.
Sedes - The non-infallible Magisterium is corrupted but it was done by people who didn't have authority so it doesn't change anything.

Both sides explain away the practical evils, since there's no way to avoid them.  The reality is, the practical evils remain, just as the novus ordo/V2 church remains.  
1.  R&R minimize the evils by saying the Infallible Magisterium is more important (which is true).
2.  Sedes minimize the evils by saying the corrupted non-infallible Magisterium is illegal, null and void (which is true).

Either way, both agree that the infallible Magisterium is still pure, holy and unchanging.  Either way, the corrupted, fallible Magisterium is still a problem and still causing spiritual destruction.  Either way, both theories fail to fix the practical problems in the world.

Offline AnthonyPadua

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Re: Joint Statement of SSPX-MC Priests: Fr. David Hewko & Fr. Hugo Ruiz V
« Reply #101 on: July 19, 2023, 06:45:39 PM »
Well, that's really your opinion because, as this crisis has proven, God has allowed evil that is beyond everyone's comprehension. 


In the practical order (i.e. what we can see, hear and feel), the non-infallible Magisterium is corrupted.

Theoretically, R&R and Sedes argue away the practical corruption, and come to the same conclusion, from different angles.
R&R - The non-infallible Magisterium is corrupted but what matters is the infallible Magisterium which is still intact.
Sedes - The non-infallible Magisterium is corrupted but it was done by people who didn't have authority so it doesn't change anything.

Both sides explain away the practical evils, since there's no way to avoid them.  The reality is, the practical evils remain, just as the novus ordo/V2 church remains. 
1.  R&R minimize the evils by saying the Infallible Magisterium is more important (which is true).
2.  Sedes minimize the evils by saying the corrupted non-infallible Magisterium is illegal, null and void (which is true).

Either way, both agree that the infallible Magisterium is still pure, holy and unchanging.  Either way, the corrupted, fallible Magisterium is still a problem and still causing spiritual destruction.  Either way, both theories fail to fix the practical problems in the world.
So when Francis canonizes someone how is this explained? As the act of canonizing is solemn.


Offline Pax Vobis

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Re: Joint Statement of SSPX-MC Priests: Fr. David Hewko & Fr. Hugo Ruiz V
« Reply #102 on: July 19, 2023, 07:46:53 PM »

Quote
So when Francis canonizes someone how is this explained? As the act of canonizing is solemn.
Yes and no; it's more complex that you think.  Look up a thread we had on canonizations a few years ago.  Lots of research posted.

Re: Joint Statement of SSPX-MC Priests: Fr. David Hewko & Fr. Hugo Ruiz V
« Reply #103 on: July 19, 2023, 09:13:11 PM »
Your assertion that the Magisterium can go corrupt, that the Church can promulgate a Mass that's displeasing to God and harmful to souls, corrupting the Catholic religion to such an extent that Catholics would be justified and even required in conscience to sever communion with and submission to the hierarchy ... that's both blasphemous and heretical and its guts the indefectibility of the Church.  In fact, the proposition that the Rite of Mass used by the Church can be harmful to souls was anathematized by Trent.
The ordinary magisterium of the pope can be erroneous, and has been before in history.  You are still avoiding the topic of Nicholas I and John XXII teaching error.  It's a historical fact.

The Church did not promulgate a Mass displeasing to God, the Congregation of Rites did.  The Mass of all time is still the official rite of the Roman Church, as defined by St. Pius V.  The Novus Ordo is a schismatic rite, and belongs to the sect that presently occupies Rome.  No matter how officially the authorities try to make it the rite of the Roman Church, they are prevented by Trent and Quo Primum.

The doctrine of indefectibility guarantees that there will always be "Traditional Catholics".  The gates of hell will not prevail.  The crisis makes indefectibility easy to believe, when one sees the "remnant" miraculously preserved, despite persecution from the highest officials in the Church.

In providing all those papal quotes about the indefectibility of Church Magisterium, you demonstrate your error of equating "Church" with "Pope".  Papal teaching = Church teaching only in ex cathedra pronouncements and statements that conform with papal teaching throughout history.  The fact that papal teaching can contradict the Church is ancient historical fact.

Re: Joint Statement of SSPX-MC Priests: Fr. David Hewko & Fr. Hugo Ruiz V
« Reply #104 on: July 19, 2023, 09:27:48 PM »
So when Francis canonizes someone how is this explained? As the act of canonizing is solemn.
Canonizations are generally considered infallible.  How then do we understand the "canonizations" of scandalous people in recent years?  John Paul II changed the process of examination to a point that he vitiated his own decisions of whether or not a person could be canonized.  For example, the elimination of the "devil's advocate".  John Paul II would not allow testimonies against the candidates for canonization to be reviewed.  Absurdity!

Sadly, the great Padre Pio was "canonized" according to the new vitiated process.  That is why traditional parishes will not have public recitations of "Saint Pio, pray for us" or allow statues of him in the chapel.  Obviously, the vast majority firmly believe in his sanctity.