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Author Topic: Joint Statement of SSPX-MC Priests: Fr. David Hewko & Fr. Hugo Ruiz V  (Read 28865 times)

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Offline NIFH

Re: Joint Statement of SSPX-MC Priests: Fr. David Hewko & Fr. Hugo Ruiz V
« Reply #5 on: July 10, 2023, 10:22:55 PM »
Father Hesse:

"... Paul IV was also the one who issued the papal bull cuм Ex Apostolatus Officio that determined that a former heretic could not become pope. What I really should, for practical reasons, not passing any judgement on anyone here, but for practical purposes, I should say the '1958 sedevacantists'--those who believe that John XXIII was not pope because before he was elected he was a heretic. ... The next pope who wrote about the laws of how to elect a pope didn't even mention cuм Ex Apostolatus Officio. And the papal practice was even worse. While Paul IV in cuм Ex Apostolatus Officio says a former heretic cannot become pope, privately he made sure that every cardinal understood that one who was formerly suspect of heresy could not become pope. Now Leo XIII beautifully contradicted that when he made the former heretic, John Henry Newman, Cardinal John Henry Newman. So Leo XIII theoretically made a former heretic, John Henry Newman, Anglican minister who converted Catholic, became a Catholic priest, John Henry Cardinal Newman, therefore he was eligible to the papacy. Out goes cuм Ex Apostolatus Officio, written by a paranoid pope anyway."
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Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Joint Statement of SSPX-MC Priests: Fr. David Hewko & Fr. Hugo Ruiz V
« Reply #6 on: July 10, 2023, 10:26:01 PM »
Quote from: bvmariae on July 10, 2023, 05:26:04 PM
1. THE CONCILIAR CHURCH THAT CAME INTO EXISTENCE DURING THE SECOND VATICAN COUNCIL IS NOT THE CATHOLIC CHURCH. THE CONCILIAR CHURCH IS A COUNTERFEIT OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH. THE CONCILIAR CHURCH IS SOMETHING NEW, A NEW CHURCH. THE CONCILIAR CHURCH IS NOT THE VISIBLE CHURCH OF CHRIST. THE CONCILIAR CHURCH IS A SECT. POPE FRANCIS IS AT THE SAME TIME THE HEAD OF TWO CHURCHES: OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH AND OF THE CONCILIAR CHURCH, IT IS IN THIS THAT THE GREAT DECEPTION, THE ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION OF THE HOLY PLACE CONSISTS. THE CONCILIAR CHURCH IS GRADUALLY ECLIPSING THE TRUE CATHOLIC CHURCH, WITH THE ULTIMATE GOAL OF REPLACING IT ABSOLUTELY.

2. WE CANNOT ACCEPT SEDEVACANTISM AS A “SOLUTION” TO THE CRISIS OF THE CHURCH BECAUSE DENYING THAT ALL THE LAST POPES ARE POPES TAKES AWAY FROM THE CHURCH EVEN THE VERY HOPE OF FINDING A SOLUTION AND AN FND TO THIS TREMENDOUS CRISIS. WE DO NOT HAVE THE AUTHORITY TO CANONICALLY JUDGE THESE POPES, ONLY A TRULY CATHOLIC POPE IN THE FUTURE WILL HAVE THE AUTHORITY TO DO IT.

Why is it that they have to always toss in his crap about denouncing Sedevacantism.  Sedevacantism is, as Archbishop Lefebvre stated, a real possibility.  No, it's not a "solution", but it's an understanding of what's taking place here that is more Catholic than this repackaged Old Catholicism that they've gravitated towards.  They continue to treat SV Catholics as if they were as much enemies of the faith as the Modernists, which is hogwash.  At best, they are mistaken in their application of some theological principles to the crisis.

And what is it with the ALL CAPS?  Do they have a defective keyboard?  Or are they trying to make this look like some Magisterial statement?
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Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Joint Statement of SSPX-MC Priests: Fr. David Hewko & Fr. Hugo Ruiz V
« Reply #7 on: July 10, 2023, 10:34:06 PM »
Quote from: NIFH on July 10, 2023, 10:22:04 PM
Father Hesse:

"... One of the reasons why we cannot positively state that this pope is not pope is because first of all we need proof. We do not have this proof."

While this statement is strictly true, in that one cannot rule out the possibility of some unknown "Factor X", such as that Montini was being blackmailed over sodomy, and the others for other reasons, and therefore that their acts were not the free acts of Popes, and therefore lacked authority, but, absent such scenarios, we have PLENTY OF PROOF.  We have rock solid theological proof.  It is simply not possible for the Papacy, which is guided by the Holy Spirit, to destroy the Church, to gut the Magisterium, to destroy faith and morals, and to promulgate a Mass that displeases God, undermines the faith, and damages souls.  That is all the proof we need, and it's the most certain kind of proof, theological proof.
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Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Joint Statement of SSPX-MC Priests: Fr. David Hewko & Fr. Hugo Ruiz V
« Reply #8 on: July 10, 2023, 10:38:07 PM »
Quote from: NIFH on July 10, 2023, 10:22:55 PM
Father Hesse:

"Now Leo XIII beautifully contradicted that when he made the former heretic, John Henry Newman, Cardinal John Henry Newman. So Leo XIII theoretically made a former heretic, John Henry Newman, Anglican minister who converted Catholic, became a Catholic priest, John Henry Cardinal Newman, therefore he was eligible to the papacy. Out goes cuм Ex Apostolatus Officio, written by a paranoid pope anyway."

While Father Hesse is normally quite reasonable, that was really dumb.  Newman converted to the Catholic Church.  What Paul IV meant about someone being a Pope prior to his election means covering a time that is inclusive of the election itself.  It's similar to the expression about Our Lady having been a Virgin until she gave birth to Our Lord.  Father Hesse must have imbibed a little too much chardonnay before making that statement there.
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Offline Stubborn

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Re: Joint Statement of SSPX-MC Priests: Fr. David Hewko & Fr. Hugo Ruiz V
« Reply #9 on: July 11, 2023, 05:06:28 AM »
Quote from: Ladislaus on July 10, 2023, 10:38:07 PM
While Father Hesse is normally quite reasonable, that was really dumb.  Newman converted to the Catholic Church.  What Paul IV meant about someone being a Pope prior to his election means covering a time that is inclusive of the election itself.  It's similar to the expression about Our Lady having been a Virgin until she gave birth to Our Lord.  Father Hesse must have imbibed a little too much chardonnay before making that statement there.
Fr. Hesse is right. cuм ex says "if ever at any time," not "during the election" - which makes no sense whatsoever....

"In addition, [by this Our Constitution, which is to remain valid in perpetuity We enact, determine,
decree and define:-] that if ever at any time it shall appear that any Bishop, even if he be acting as an Archbishop, Patriarch or Primate; or any Cardinal of the aforesaid Roman Church, or, as has already been mentioned, any
legate, or even the Roman Pontiff, prior to his promotion or his elevation as Cardinal or Roman Pontiff, has deviated from the Catholic Faith or fallen into some heresy...."

If in fact cuм ex is the law, then nearly all trad bishops and clergy are invalid for having been a been to whatever degree, a NOer prior to finding tradition, including even +Sanborn and the other 8 - who were all NO before Econe.

Heck, being born and raised NO before finding tradition yourself, you also would have been invalid had you gone on to get ordained - per the law of cuм ex.
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