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Author Topic: Joint Statement of SSPX-MC Priests: Fr. David Hewko & Fr. Hugo Ruiz V  (Read 28935 times)

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Offline Stubborn

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Re: Joint Statement of SSPX-MC Priests: Fr. David Hewko & Fr. Hugo Ruiz V
« Reply #90 on: July 18, 2023, 05:40:42 AM »
All these anti-R&R discussions demonstrate is the truth of DL's final post:

Quote
Anti-sede, but not anti-Catholic. I myself am growing "anti-sede" in the sense that it now entails an entire set of beliefs and practices set apart from the rest beyond merely not believing these Popes are legitimate. 


Offline Meg

Re: Joint Statement of SSPX-MC Priests: Fr. David Hewko & Fr. Hugo Ruiz V
« Reply #91 on: July 18, 2023, 09:02:50 AM »
All these anti-R&R discussions demonstrate is the truth of DL's final post:

I had wondered what happened to DL. I miss his unique perspective on things. He was originally sedevacantist, I think, and then changed his mind. 


Re: Joint Statement of SSPX-MC Priests: Fr. David Hewko & Fr. Hugo Ruiz V
« Reply #92 on: July 18, 2023, 08:30:22 PM »
Only Old Catholics like yourself don't understand this.  I've posted walls of text from the Popes about the indefectibility of the Church's Magisterium ... which you heretically and blasphemously deny.  Miser just posted one of a dozen or so that could be cited and have been cited.  It's only Old Catholics, Eastern Orthodox, and Protestants who hold that the Catholic Church can become corrupt in its Magisterium and its Public Worship.  You've thrown in your lot with them than with actual Catholics.
You are trying to evade again.

Where does it say the pope cannot err in his non-infallible teaching power?  Did Pope Nicholas I say that baptism "In the Name of Christ" is valid, or didn't he?  Did John XXII teach the delay of eternal recompense until the Last Judgement, or not?

The Church's Magisterium is indefectible.  We are discussing the non-infallible teaching of the pope.

Re: Joint Statement of SSPX-MC Priests: Fr. David Hewko & Fr. Hugo Ruiz V
« Reply #93 on: July 18, 2023, 08:33:29 PM »



This is a gem.  The great pope condemning the proto-modernists over a century before Vatican II.  I recommend the study of this entire docuмent.

Re: Joint Statement of SSPX-MC Priests: Fr. David Hewko & Fr. Hugo Ruiz V
« Reply #94 on: July 18, 2023, 09:11:11 PM »
There's a lot of fluff in that article.  Here are the five quotes it depends on:

1.  "We likewise define that full power was given to him in blessed Peter by our Lord Jesus Christ, to feed, rule, and govern the universal Church; just as is contained in the acts of the ecuмenical Councils and in the sacred canons."
(Pope Eugene IV, Council of Florence, Bull Laetentur Coeli; Denz. 694.)

The Council here defines the primacy.  The pope has the authority to teach and rule.  It doesn't say that it's impossible for him to be in error.

2.  "But this likewise must be reckoned amongst the duties of Christians, that they allow themselves to be ruled and directed by the authority and leadership of bishops, and, above all, of the Apostolic See."
(Pope Leo XIII, Encyclical Sapientiae Christianae, nn. 22, 24)

This is a rule, and Leo XIII doesn't have to name the exceptions every time he states a rule.  For example, Pascal II ordered the bishops of Germany to surrender all their land to the emperor in 1111.  The bishops refused.  In 1112 Pascal rescinded the order, congratulated the bishops, and cursed the day he gave the order.

3.  "All know to whom the teaching authority of the Church has been given by God: he, then, possesses a perfect right to speak as he wishes and when he thinks it opportune. The duty of others is to hearken to him reverently when he speaks and to carry out what he says."
(Pope Benedict XV, Encyclical Ad Beatissimi Apostolorum, n. 22)

That is another way to formulate the rule Leo XIII was talking about.

4.  "Nor must it be thought that what is expounded in Encyclical Letters does not of itself demand consent, since in writing such Letters the Popes do not exercise the supreme power of their Teaching Authority. For these matters are taught with the ordinary teaching authority, of which it is true to say: “He who heareth you, heareth Me” [Lk 10:16]; and generally what is expounded and inculcated in Encyclical Letters already for other reasons appertains to Catholic doctrine."
(Pope Pius XII, Encyclical Humani Generis, nn. 18, 20)

See below.

5.  "Hence, even though to someone, certain declarations of the Church may not seem proved by the arguments put forward, his obligation to obey still remains."
(Pope Pius XII, Allocution Magnificate Dominum)

If you contradict the pope, you'd better be quoting a predecessor or a Council.  You cannot contradict him simply because you feel his arguments are not convincing.