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Author Topic: Joint Statement of SSPX-MC Priests: Fr. David Hewko & Fr. Hugo Ruiz V  (Read 28884 times)

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Offline SeanJohnson

Re: Joint Statement of SSPX-MC Priests: Fr. David Hewko & Fr. Hugo Ruiz V
« Reply #140 on: August 07, 2023, 10:57:42 AM »
Quote from: Catholic Knight on August 07, 2023, 08:30:04 AM
Even if the church officials would eventually act in some manner, there would still be the period of time between the moment the putative pope admits he is a heretic and the moment the church officials make a declaration.  Would you still accept him as pope at the moment he admits he is a heretic? 

Not really:

The pope would be a declared heretic the moment he declared himself a heretic (i.e., simultaneously).
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Offline Meg

Re: Joint Statement of SSPX-MC Priests: Fr. David Hewko & Fr. Hugo Ruiz V
« Reply #141 on: August 07, 2023, 11:16:50 AM »
Quote from: Catholic Knight on August 07, 2023, 08:46:01 AM
You stated that holding publicly and pertinaciously to one heresy is not sufficient to constitute a public defection from the Catholic Faith.  I asked you how many does it take, then, and you now respond by saying that it is not a matter of how many.  Then why did you answer my question that one would not be sufficient?



 

The canon law on which you base your thesis doesn't say anything about heresy. It says that a public defection from the faith is required to lose an office. I don't recall that Francis or any of the conciliar popes as publicly stating or making an announcement to the whole Church that they were leaving the Catholic Church. That's what a "Public Defection" is, in the context of the canon law you cited.
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Offline NIFH

Re: Joint Statement of SSPX-MC Priests: Fr. David Hewko & Fr. Hugo Ruiz V
« Reply #142 on: August 07, 2023, 06:47:08 PM »
Quote from: BrianA on August 07, 2023, 07:04:10 AM
Dear NIFH,

Catholics trust canonizations not because of the "process" but because of the papal declaration.

Has the process EVER changed? Since it appears that you disagree with the process of John Paul II, are you somehow the new judge of what the process needs to be? If you're not in charge of that, who is?
Theologians generally considered canonizations to be infallible not simply because of the papal declaration, but because veneration of the saint was placed into mandatory liturgical prayers.  It would be unexplainable if the Church would impose veneration of a person in the liturgy if in fact the person was not a saint.

The pope has the power to investigate the facts of a person's life and to declare him a saint based on the findings.  Now that the popes refuse to make a true investigation (by forbidding evidence against the cause to be considered) he is unable to reach a just decision.
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Offline NIFH

Re: Joint Statement of SSPX-MC Priests: Fr. David Hewko & Fr. Hugo Ruiz V
« Reply #143 on: August 07, 2023, 07:10:46 PM »
Quote from: BrianA on August 07, 2023, 07:48:49 AM
Dear NIFH,

Do you know who is the human head of this "sect that presently occupies Rome?"

Is this the case whereby you believe that the head of a non-Catholic sect is at the very same time the head of the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Bride of Christ?

Do you believe it possible to be both a non-Catholic and a Catholic at the same time?

There are distinctions to be made here.  It is possible for a person to be a material heretic and to still be a member of the Mystical Body of Christ.  I think it was Tanquerey who said that most Catholics are materially semi-Pelagians, and are quite unaware of it.  These people have ideas that contradict Church doctrine, but do not intend to, and would change their ideas as soon as they learned the true doctrine.  There are innumerable ways to materially be a non-Catholic, and subjectively definitely still be a Catholic.

The pope is not the head of the Catholic Church.  Our Lord Jesus Christ is the Head of the Catholic Church.  The pope is the Vicar of Christ on Earth.  He holds the highest position of any mere human on Earth, but he is still only the vicar of the Head.

Whether or not our present pope is truly the head of the sect eclipsing the Church, he certainly seems to be at least the visible head.  Just as it is possible for a local bishop to be at the same time the president of the local Socialist Club, it is possible for the pope to be at the same time the president of the 'newchurch'.  All of his time and effort and dedication seems to be put to the service of his sect, rather than to his far nobler position of Christ's Vicar on Earth.  Our poor Holy Father, we must pray for him, and make clear that he will have our fullest support should he accept the grace to turn around.
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Online AnthonyPadua

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Re: Joint Statement of SSPX-MC Priests: Fr. David Hewko & Fr. Hugo Ruiz V
« Reply #144 on: August 07, 2023, 08:22:14 PM »
Quote from: NIFH on August 07, 2023, 07:10:46 PM
There are distinctions to be made here.  It is possible for a person to be a material heretic and to still be a member of the Mystical Body of Christ.  I think it was Tanquerey who said that most Catholics are materially semi-Pelagians, and are quite unaware of it.  These people have ideas that contradict Church doctrine, but do not intend to, and would change their ideas as soon as they learned the true doctrine.  There are innumerable ways to materially be a non-Catholic, and subjectively definitely still be a Catholic.

The pope is not the head of the Catholic Church.  Our Lord Jesus Christ is the Head of the Catholic Church.  The pope is the Vicar of Christ on Earth.  He holds the highest position of any mere human on Earth, but he is still only the vicar of the Head.

Whether or not our present pope is truly the head of the sect eclipsing the Church, he certainly seems to be at least the visible head.  Just as it is possible for a local bishop to be at the same time the president of the local Socialist Club, it is possible for the pope to be at the same time the president of the 'newchurch'.  All of his time and effort and dedication seems to be put to the service of his sect, rather than to his far nobler position of Christ's Vicar on Earth.  Our poor Holy Father, we must pray for him, and make clear that he will have our fullest support should he accept the grace to turn around.
Hasn't some bishops already sent Francis a letter admonishing him? Also many trads are in denial about salvation by invincible ignorance being pelagian when you show them how utter ridiculous it is, yet they double down. Are these still material heretics?

You say the Pope isn't the head but also the Pope is the visible head... Sure Christ is the real head, but the Pope is still a head, as you said, visible.
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