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Author Topic: John Salza leaves SSPX and returns to Novus Ordo  (Read 19770 times)

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Offline PAT317

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Re: John Salza leaves SSPX and returns to Novus Ordo
« Reply #300 on: October 23, 2020, 08:10:57 AM »
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    • Quote from: Mr G on October 23, 2020, 07:54:38 AM
    All I see is what she wrote: "So this was John Salza's "answer": "
    .
    In it, he says: 
    "Well, I recently went to the SSPX for confession and haven't attended the Novus Ordo Mass in about 20 years."
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    Offline Mr G

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    Re: John Salza leaves SSPX and returns to Novus Ordo
    « Reply #301 on: October 23, 2020, 08:14:23 AM »
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    • Quote from: PAT317 on October 23, 2020, 08:10:57 AM
    .
    In it, he says:
    "Well, I recently went to the SSPX for confession and haven't attended the Novus Ordo Mass in about 20 years."
    Thank you!!!
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    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: John Salza leaves SSPX and returns to Novus Ordo
    « Reply #302 on: October 23, 2020, 08:17:01 AM »
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    • Quote from: Mr G on October 23, 2020, 07:54:38 AM
    All I see is what she wrote: "So this was John Salza's "answer": "
    This is a link to a tweet communication between a few different folks/organizations (it includes the JS response in my earlier post).  Although radtradthomist's original "source" allegation appears to be false, whether he returned to the NO church could still be an open question because he has not actually said he does not go to an indult or diocesan TLM...just that he does not attend the NO service.


    https://twitter.com/SisterLucyTruth/status/1317553333096181760

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    Online Pax Vobis

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    Re: John Salza leaves SSPX and returns to Novus Ordo
    « Reply #303 on: October 23, 2020, 08:19:07 AM »
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    • Quote
    Yes it does. Trent guarantees that: that no Mass of the Church can be blasphemous, heretical or invalid.
    Right, this applies to the True Mass.  It doesn't apply to the novus ordo, because it's NOT FROM THE CHURCH.  You could only argue it's from the Church if everyone in the Latin Rite was OBLIGATED to attend it, use it, accept it.  But that's not the case.
    .
    Can the Church issue an optional dogma?  We declare, say and define, using our Apostolic Authority, that the Holy Spirit is God.  You can believe this if you want to, or not.
    .
    Of course an optional dogma would not be part of Church teaching; so an optional liturgy isn't part of the Church.
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    Online Pax Vobis

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    Re: John Salza leaves SSPX and returns to Novus Ordo
    « Reply #304 on: October 23, 2020, 08:27:51 AM »
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    We likewise declare and ordain that no one whosoever is forced or coerced to alter this Missal,

    Stubborn, this prohibition doesn't apply to Paul 6's missal because he wasn't forced to issue his missal, he did so of his own accord.  Your issue of calling Paul 6's missal a "revision" vs "new" doesn't matter either.  QP does not prohibit the issuance of a new missal.
    .
    In a legal sense, a law is new if it is written in the way to make it clear that it has no LEGAL connection with the previous law.  Practically speaking, even if the "new" law is 90% the same as the old law, it's still not a revision because of the form of the new law.  This is getting into legal technicalities, but that's the argument I'm making - that the Modernists are masters of technicalities, so they created their "new" missal in such a way as to LEGALLY be new.
    .
    The other aspect is, Paul 6's missal is not a revision because it did not replace John XXIII's missal.  Another important legal fact.
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    Offline PAT317

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    Re: John Salza leaves SSPX and returns to Novus Ordo
    « Reply #305 on: October 23, 2020, 08:28:59 AM »
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    • Quote from: 2Vermont on October 23, 2020, 08:17:01 AM
    This is a link to a tweet communication between a few different folks/organizations (it includes the JS response in my earlier post).  Although radtradthomist's original "source" allegation appears to be false, whether he returned to the NO church could still be an open question because he has not actually said he does not go to an indult or diocesan TLM...just that he does not attend the NO service.


    https://twitter.com/SisterLucyTruth/status/1317553333096181760
    Oh brother.  So "Sister Lucy Truth" is considering him to be back in the Novus Ordo because he still goes to SSPX such as he has for a long, long time?  Does not leaving the SSPX now constitute "returning to the Novus Ordo"?  Is "Sister Lucy Truth" Dr. Peter Chojnowski?  If not, would "Sister Lucy Truth" consider Dr. C to be in the Novus Ordo Church?  Doesn't Dr. Chojnowski still go to the SSPX in Post Falls and teach at their boys' school?  
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    Offline Veritatis

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    Re: John Salza leaves SSPX and returns to Novus Ordo
    « Reply #306 on: October 23, 2020, 08:30:05 AM »
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    • Quote from: 2Vermont on October 23, 2020, 08:17:01 AM
    This is a link to a tweet communication between a few different folks/organizations (it includes the JS response in my earlier post).  Although radtradthomist's original "source" allegation appears to be false, whether he returned to the NO church could still be an open question because he has not actually said he does not go to an indult or diocesan TLM...just that he does not attend the NO service.


    https://twitter.com/SisterLucyTruth/status/1317553333096181760
    I know someone who lives near John Salza. He told me Salza has attended Mass at the Institute of Christ the King during the week and the SSPX on Sundays for as long as he's known him. 
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    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: John Salza leaves SSPX and returns to Novus Ordo
    « Reply #307 on: October 23, 2020, 08:36:35 AM »
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    • Quote from: PAT317 on October 23, 2020, 08:28:59 AM
    Oh brother.  So "Sister Lucy Truth" is considering him to be back in the Novus Ordo because he still goes to SSPX such as he has for a long, long time?  Does not leaving the SSPX now constitute "returning to the Novus Ordo"?  Is "Sister Lucy Truth" Dr. Peter Chojnowski?  If not, would "Sister Lucy Truth" consider Dr. C to be in the Novus Ordo Church?  Doesn't Dr. Chojnowski still go to the SSPX in Post Falls and teach at their boys' school?  
    No, that is not what this sounds like to me. It sounds to me like they are considering "returning to NO church" when one goes to an indult or diocesan TLM.  Salza never clarifies that he does not do this.  In addition, as I have posted at least a couple of times now....Sister Lucy Truth did not initiate the story.  
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    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: John Salza leaves SSPX and returns to Novus Ordo
    « Reply #308 on: October 23, 2020, 08:40:11 AM »
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    • Quote from: Veritatis on October 23, 2020, 08:30:05 AM
    I know someone who lives near John Salza. He told me Salza has attended Mass at the Institute of Christ the King during the week and the SSPX on Sundays for as long as he's known him.
    So he's got one foot in the NO church and the other in the SSPX.
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    Offline Sin of Adam

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    Re: John Salza leaves SSPX and returns to Novus Ordo
    « Reply #309 on: October 23, 2020, 08:42:35 AM »
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    • Quote from: Stubborn on October 23, 2020, 05:03:11 AM
    Meanwhile you have the sede position which emphatically insists that the Church teaches popes cannot teach major error to the whole Church so are always infallibly safe to follow.

    Either submit to the pope or come out as R&R like a real Catholic.  
    The Catholic Church cannot, by the protection of God the Holy Spirit, impose a blasphemous "Mass," invalid Holy Orders, a false faith, corrupt tradition, heretical Freemasons as Popes, Protestant Cardinals/Bishops/Priests, destroy sacredness, teach unbelief, and an endless list of things that even Martin Luther & John Calvin would be disgusted with.
    Either these things are not evil and should be followed or they are evil and this is not the true Roman Catholic Church. No other option if one is to remain Catholic.
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    Offline PAT317

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    Re: John Salza leaves SSPX and returns to Novus Ordo
    « Reply #310 on: October 23, 2020, 08:43:25 AM »
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    • So, this whole thread (or at least, the title and opening post) is based on false information.  

    Apparently on Dr. Peter Chojnowski's site, radtradthomist, there was a post which said:


    Quote
    Breaking News: John Salza has left the SSPX and has returned to the Novus Ordo church. Our source, who has worked with him on True and False Pope, says that he came to this decision "after studying sedevacantism." 
    .
    On page 3 of this thread, 2Vermont posted Salza's reply:
    .
    Quote
    Well, I recently went to the SSPX for confession and haven't attended the Novus Ordo Mass in about 20 years.  And there is no "source that worked with me on True and False Pope" that is alleged, other than Robert Siscoe.
    .
    So the original story is false on several counts.  





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    Offline PAT317

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    Re: John Salza leaves SSPX and returns to Novus Ordo
    « Reply #311 on: October 23, 2020, 08:50:06 AM »
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    • Quote from: 2Vermont on October 23, 2020, 08:36:35 AM
    No, that is not what this sounds like to me. It sounds to me like they are considering "returning to NO church" when one goes to an indult or diocesan TLM.  Salza never clarifies that he does not do this.  In addition, as I have posted at least a couple of times now....Sister Lucy Truth did not initiate the story.  
    Okay, several problems:
    .
    - If it is true that Salza has been going to Mass at the Institute of Christ the King during the week for years, and he still goes to the SSPX, then there is no change, which the word "returning to" implies. 
    . 
    - If "@SisterLucyTruth" is saying that going to the SSPX all along (because in that tweet he does not specify going to Indult or diocesan TLM; he is referring to SSPX because he mentions their "jurisdiction to hear confessions"), then does he also accuse radtradthomist/Dr. Chojnowski of "returning to the NO church" because he's gone to SSPX Masses for years?  
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    Offline Veritatis

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    Re: John Salza leaves SSPX and returns to Novus Ordo
    « Reply #312 on: October 23, 2020, 09:08:29 AM »
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    • Quote from: PAT317 on October 23, 2020, 08:50:06 AM
     does he also accuse radtradthomist/Dr. Chojnowski of "returning to the NO church" because he's gone to SSPX Masses for years?  
    Does Dr. Chojnowski still attend Mass at the SSPX? 
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    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: John Salza leaves SSPX and returns to Novus Ordo
    « Reply #313 on: October 23, 2020, 09:21:56 AM »
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    • Quote from: PAT317 on October 23, 2020, 08:50:06 AM
    Okay, several problems:
    .
    - If it is true that Salza has been going to Mass at the Institute of Christ the King during the week for years, and he still goes to the SSPX, then there is no change, which the word "returning to" implies.
    .
    - If "@SisterLucyTruth" is saying that going to the SSPX all along (because in that tweet he does not specify going to Indult or diocesan TLM; he is referring to SSPX because he mentions their "jurisdiction to hear confessions"), then does he also accuse radtradthomist/Dr. Chojnowski of "returning to the NO church" because he's gone to SSPX Masses for years?  
    But you see, John Salza really doesn't clarify this even though he is the one who could.  Instead he employs a typical lawyer, vague response.

    As for your other questions, I thought I read a tweet by SisterLucyTruth saying that he and Peter C, does not know who @radtrad is (therefore, how is the latter DrC?).  As a result, I don't think your SLT questions make sense.  I'm confused who the players are here.

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    Offline PAT317

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    Re: John Salza leaves SSPX and returns to Novus Ordo
    « Reply #314 on: October 23, 2020, 09:36:01 AM »
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    • Quote from: 2Vermont on October 23, 2020, 09:21:56 AM
    As for your other questions, I thought I read a tweet by SisterLucyTruth saying that he, Peter C, does not know who radtradthomist is (therefore, how is the latter DrC?).  As a result, I don't think your SLT questions make sense.  I'm confused who the players are here.


    If Peter C is not radtradthomist, it's news to me.  Maybe he recently sold the domain name?  
    Quote from Louie Verrechio July 14, 2017:  

    "After taking a hiatus from the blogosphere, Dr. Chojnowski has decided to resume blogging at his website, RadTrad Thomist."

    I thought it was common knowlege that RadTradThomist was Peter Chojnowski.  

    [ETA:  I just noticed your post now says "Peter C, does not know who @radtrad is".  Although when I 'quoted' you in my post, it apparently didn't say that.  The twitter account @radtrad might not be the same as RadTradThomist, but the false information in the OP of this thread was from Dr. C's site, RadTradThomist.]  
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